The "Official" Cardinals Discussion Thread.

[BigRedChief]

Figured that if we had one thread to discuss Cardinals "stuff" it would be easier to find. What do you think? Good idea?

[BigRedChief]

Cardinals article about the future prospects from the St. Louis Post Dispatch.


Cardinals manager Tony La Russa never wants to talk about 2009. Neither does general manager John Mozeliak.

Both men are convinced the ’08 team could contend. So far, the Cards are doing just that, despite suffering myriad injuries.

They are 11 games over .500 and they have staying power.

But projections for the ’09 season ARE intriguing. The Cards will have more payroll flexibility next year, due to several expiring contracts. With several key prospects developing at once, Mozeliak will move into an enviable position.

The Cards’ success with rookies this season makes the forecast for next season even better. Circumstances are forcing the team to test a lot of kids.

Many have arrived ahead of schedule and most are holding up just fine. They are showcasing their potential to the Cards and the rest of the major leagues.

Infielder Brendan Ryan, Sunday’s hero, is a potential starter at second base or shortstop. Righthanded power hitter Joe Mather looks capable of balancing a left-centric outfield. Rule 5 addition Brian Barton has shown he can excel as a No. 4 or No. 5 outfielder.

Kyle McClellan, Chris Perez and Mark Worrell have bolstered the bullpen. It’s too early to assess pitcher Mitchell Boggs, but he ascended quickly through the Cards organization after arriving from the college ranks.

The Next One, outfielder Colby Rasmus, is finally hitting in Memphis. Good-hitting catcher Bryan Anderson is making great defensive strides. Both could become factors next year.

When we chatted Friday with Memphis manager Chris Maloney on KFNS, he raved about the potential of third baseman David Freese. The kid has big league defensive potential and a nice bat; when he becomes more selective at the plate, he will move to the front burner.

Maloney also raved about the professionalism of veterans Anthony Reyes and Chris Duncan. Reyes appears to be auditioning for other clubs looking for pitching help. Duncan, who is trying to relocate his power stroke, suffered a setback when he crashed into an outfield wall.

But both players remain assets. As a result, Mozeliak has options.

So now the look forward is encouraging:

* Juan Encarnacion’s $6.5 million salary will be off the books after this season. Kyle Lohse ($4.25 million), Braden Looper ($5.5 million) and Jason Isringhausen ($8 million) will become free agents. Mark Mulder ($6.5 million) could also exit the payroll, unless the Cards exercise their $11 million option.

Our take: Mozeliak ought to use that flexibility to give Lohse a long-term extension. His performance in this pitching-friendly environment has been a revelation. He has become the second coming of Woody Williams.

If Izzy rallies this summer, I’d give him one more year at reasonable money – but no guarantee that he would close ahead of the hard-throwing Perez.

* Young veterans Ryan Ludwick, Rick Ankiel and Skip Schumaker have collectively exceeded expectations in the outfield. Ankiel only hits in streaks, but his defensive play has been consistently brilliant. Ludwick and Schumaker are making huge professional strides.


* The Cards can reasonably expect to have Chris Carpenter back in his No. 1 starter role next season. He, Adam Wainwright and Joel Pineiro are under contract. Mozeliak can pick up his contract option on Matt Clement, IF he finally comes off the disabled list and pitches like his old self.

That is an enormous if. Hence the need to explore an extension for Lohse. And if Todd Wellemeyer holds up this summer, he will merit long-term investment as well. Power arms are hard to find.

* As Derrick Goold reports, the Cards consider Kyle McClellan a prime candidate for the ’09 rotation. He could take the same step Wainwright took. Boggs was a reliever in college, so he could move to bullpen next season in a Brad Thompson-like role.


* Mozeliak will have to deal some of his pitching and outfield surplus at some point. Reyes and Duncan, currently unable to hold jobs in St. Louis, are logical targets. So is Thompson, another of the hurlers currently on the rehab trail.

If all the Cards pitchers ever become healthy at the same time -– a long shot, we know -- Mozeliak will have to move a hurler or two in his current rotation just to make the roster work. That will make him popular among his peers.

Rather than having to deal young players to fill short-term needs this summer, Mozeliak could take the opposite approach. He could move a few veteran hurlers for longer-term assets.

* By signing Cesar Izturis to a one-year deal, Mozeliak left his options open at shortstop. Better offensive players like Rafael Furcal and Orlando Cabrera could become free agents after the season. Perhaps one could be there for the right price.

Mozeliak could opt to keep Izturis for his glove -– or he could hand the job to Ryan, who will get additional starts at that position this summer. One thing that won’t happen: Mozeliak dramatically overspending for a free-agent shortstop out of necessity.


The pieces are lining up nicely. This season is stressful for Mozeliak, La Russa and the rest of the baseball operation.

But this season is also illuminating, since so many youngsters are accelerating their growth in the middle of a playoff race. The better this group does the summer, the more excited Cardinal Nation can become about 2009.

[CoMoChief]

This is a ****in completely reeruned idea.

Go to a Cardinals forum.

[smittysbar]

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

This is a ****in completely reeruned idea.

Go to a Cardinals forum.

Your just a hater.

[StcChief]

Good idea, there are enough Cardinal fans here...

I'd love to see Cards move Duncan. the guy's a liability in OF and his bat is inconsistent.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by StcChief

Good idea, there are enough Cardinal fans here...

I'd love to see Cards move Duncan. the guy's a liability in OF and his bat is inconsistent.

I think that has to be the idea. The dude plays 1B. We have a pretty good one already and hopefully till he retires so we are set there.

We have plenty of outfielders and outfield prospects also. We need some pitching. Bullpen help. A Duncan trade should be able to get us some help in that area.

[smittysbar]

Anyone one know any news on Carpenter?

[BigRedChief]

Cardinals enter into the Dominican Republic talent pool. Give $1.2 million SB to a 16 year old.

----------------------------------- -----------------------------------
For a long time, maybe forever, the buscones were considered adversaries or parasites, entities to be mistrusted and, if possible, circumvented.
Until a mid-January night at a downtown Santo Domingo restaurant, the Cardinals' relationship with Dominican player agents had remained at arm's length.

The Cardinals officially opened their Dominican academy in a rural setting about 40 minutes north of town in November 2005, but they had retained the reputation of fringe players in the market.

Bonuses remained modest as the Cardinals stocked their new Rookie League teams with Latin players, few of them signed for more than $100,000. Quantity, according to a subtle message, meant more than quality.That changed when newly installed general manager John Mozeliak, assistant general manager John Abbamondi and vice president of scouting and player development Jeff Luhnow took turns speaking to the assemblage of buscones. Cocktails and dinner were served. Luhnow addressed the group in fluent Spanish. Eventually, several agents took the floor to express their appreciation.The Cardinals let it be known they were serious players on the island for the first time in a generation.

Last week they delivered, signing six players from the Dominican Republic and Venezuela for more than $3 million combined. Dominican third baseman Roberto De La Cruz, 16, received more than $1.2 million. Two others, Dominican pitcher Santo Franco and Venezuelan shortstop Cesar Valera, signed for more than $500,000.Five years after landing in the Dominican without their own academy and with few local connections, the Cardinals entered the industry's upper class of Caribbean signings.

Since last season the club has hired Moises Rodriguez as director of international operations and Juan Mercado as Latin American scouting supervisor. Mercado lives in the Dominican. Without either, Luhnow acknowledges, the organization's dive into the deep end of the Caribbean talent pool would be impossible.A team unable to sign and develop a player off the island since pitcher Jose Jimenez (signed in 1991) now has a goal of eventually developing two players for the major league team each year.

The Cardinals now routinely dispatch their roving minor-league instructors to their Dominican and Venezuelan facilities. No longer are Municipio de La Victoria, D.R., and Valencia, Venezuela, treated as rumors."We were there to send a strong signal," Luhnow said, recalling the January dinner. "We told them we were serious. The fact we were there, letting them know we were ready to partner with them instead of considering them adversaries, meant a lot."

Last week meant even more.Tuesday's announced signing of the Cardinals' first-round draftee, Arizona State third baseman Brett Wallace, merited headlines. However, the franchise's international harvest represented a tectonic shift for an organization that until five years ago was one of only two major league organizations not represented in the Dominican Republic.

"The way I look at it, we have to be there," said Luhnow, who was given oversight of the team's international mission shortly after arriving with the franchise after the 2003 season. "We're not in a position where we can rely on premium draft picks every season because we don't have them. So we have to look elsewhere for talent — top talent."

The Cardinals previously had never given more than $450,000 to a Latin prospect. The Oakland A's recently signed 6-foot-7 righthanded pitcher Michel Inoa for a reported $4.25 million. The Padres signed three players for at least $1 million. The Cardinals, by comparison, signed Wallace, no less than one of the top three college hitters available in the draft, for $1.85 million."Having an impact there is our mission," Mozeliak said. "I think we've shown in recent years, and particularly last week, how our commitment there has grown."

The Cardinals now see themselves in the fray with aggressive clubs such as Oakland, the Milwaukee Brewers, Washington Nationals and San Diego Padres. Last week's signings reinforce the January message that the club is carrying dollars, not nickels.

"It's become the equivalent of the draft in Latin America when you talk about the investment some teams have started to make in those type players," Luhnow said. "Some clubs are going to require international budgets that rival their draft budgets."Clubs are realizing they have to compete, not just by being there and hoping for development, but by competing for top talent."

Last week's flurry provided muscle to the January message. Now the club must realize a dividend from what Luhnow admits is "a gamble," investing six- and seven-figure bonuses in 16-year-olds.

"Colleges play such an important role in separating players in the United States," said
Luhnow, whose record as scouting director tilts heavily toward college talent. "We don't have that path in Latin America. You have to gamble there. There are only so many 16-year-olds every year

[StcChief]

nice read BRC. Glad to see Cards under their new GM moving to compete.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

This is a ****in completely reeruned idea.

Go to a Cardinals forum.

Just ignore the damn thread if you don't like it.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Well the initial article posted is a pretty homerific piece, but a good read nonetheless....Duncan needs to be moved, but I doubt anyone wants him at this point....The Latin thing is interesting. Kind of skeptical about throwing money like that at 16 year olds, but oh well these organizations have plenty of money to burn. Could pay off huge....Enough cards fans here for this to be a very good idea.

[SPATCH]

doesn't there have to be at least four asterisks in the thread title for it to be "official"??

[CoMoChief]

Originally Posted by PGM

Just ignore the damn thread if you don't like it.

Well **** then lets all start a Broncos thread.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by smittysbar

Anyone one know any news on Carpenter?

Some blurbs I found......

Carpenter to have a sim game Monday: Cardinals SP Chris Carpenter, recovering from Tommy John surgery, threw a bullpen session Friday, according to MLB.com. He'll throw a simulated game on Monday. "I talked to him," manager Tony La Russa said. "He said he felt all right and he felt good."
(Updated 07/04/2008).
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Carpenter won't begin a rehabilitation assignment before early August and might even find himself in the bullpen once he does return to St. Louis. A move to the bullpen would definitely warp Carpenter's Fantasy value as most owners had hoped they'd stashed a second-half sleeper. Continue to stash him in larger Fantasy leagues and hope for the best.
(Updated 07/04/2008).

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Good news and bad news, I suppose, for Cardinals' fans. Chris Carpenter made his first rehab start yesterday. That's the good news. The bad news? It didn't go terribly well. He gave up five runs (three earned) in 1 and 1/3 innings for Class A Palm Beach in his first start in three months. I suppose it could've been worse though. More from the team site:

The good news was that of 32 pitches, Carpenter threw 24 strikes. His fastball was clocked at 88-92 mph, and he mixed in offspeed stuff as well. Carpenter struck out two and didn't issue a walk. Of the five hits against him, four were singles and one was a double. Each inning began with an error by shortstop Dan Nelson.

You do have to take the earned runs part with a grain of salt. Just like spring training, Carp is likely working more on getting his mechanics back and testing out that elbow than he's working on getting hitters out. If the velocity is where it should be and he's throwing offspeed pitches without much pain, that's a much more encouraging sign than the three runs is discouraging.

I assume his outing was so short due to a pitch count, but that's not explicitly stated anywhere. If it was cut short for another reason, that might be a bad sign. I suppose we'll learn more from how he feels after this start and future rehab outings

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

Well **** then lets all start a Broncos thread.

Go right ahead. A good Broncos suck thread is always nice.