Chiefs The myth of Pioli

B_Ambuehl · 12-07-2009, 01:12 PM

LOL I wonder if he's sharing that loaded contract he got from Clark with Bellichik.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/c...148&position=0

This time it’s personnel
Building to collapse
By Ron Borges
Monday, December 7, 2009 - Updated 4m ago
+ Recent Articles

MIAMI - Slowly but inexorably they are dissolving in front of our eyes. It is a process that didn’t begin this year for the New England Patriots [team stats] but way back in 2004, when nobody was paying attention to much else but the lifting of another Super Bowl banner.

That season they won their third Super Bowl in four seasons but also began a widely ignored decline that manifested itself emphatically the past month and came to a sad head yesterday at Land Shark Stadium when they lost for the third time in four weeks, blowing a 14-0 lead to be beaten at the buzzer by the Miami Dolphins [team stats], 22-21.

Five years ago, the Patriots draft garnered two starters, both on the first round. Not another player drafted in April of 2004 is still in uniform. That fallowness continued in 2005 when they again picked only two current starters. In 2006, they got only one, running back Laurence Maroney [stats], plus kicker Stephen Gostkowski. Then came the disaster of 2007, when only first-round pick Brandon Meriweather was good enough to still be in pro
football.

It is a bit early to know about 2008 but other than linebacker Jerod Mayo it again appears to be a sad lot. Second- and third-round picks Terrence Wheatley and Shawn Crable seldom see the field (Crable never has) and it is becoming increasingly more disastrous that cornerback Jonathan Wilhite sees so much of it. In those five years, the Patriots drafted 41 players and got eight starters, six on the first round. Otherwise they got what Bill Belichick kept saying was “value.” Yesterday, it didn’t look that way.

Free agency has produced similarly skimpy results. Early hits were made on Rodney Harrison [stats] and Mike Vrabel, but after that the cupboard has been bare. They paid $30 million to Adalius Thomas and promised he could cover Ocho Cinco and sack Peyton Manning. He’s done neither. Shawn Springs signed a three-year, $10.5 million deal last spring and hasn’t played a snap in a month, while poor Wilhite struggles out of position because he’s a nickel back asked to play corner and rookie Darius Butler goes out and proves that while he has potential he never saw receivers at UConn like the ones catching balls behind and in front of him now, as Greg Camarillo did on fourth-and-6 on the game’s most critical play yesterday.

While there were fruitful trades for Randy Moss and Wes Welker, they have netted big numbers but no championships, which is the same amount Moss’ teams have won since he first came into the NFL.

These facts led New Orleans Saints coach Sean Payton to tell his team before last Monday night’s game to be stout hearted and unafraid because “this isn’t the team that accomplished all that stuff.” Although his language was more colorful, his point was clear. These Patriots aren’t those Patriots.

“It’s not for lack of effort,” center Dan Koppen said not long after Dolphins kicker Dan Carpenter nailed a 41-yard field goal and Tom Brady [stats] responded by throwing his second interception of the day with :35 to play as Cameron Wake hammered him.

Koppen is right. The Patriots’ problems are not from lack of effort or lack of planning. They are from lack of talent. Not so lacking that they aren’t competitive, but lacking enough that most every game is a struggle now.

Today everyone will say, “They need a better pass rush.” From whom?

They will say, “They need better pass coverage.” From whom?

Some will say they need to run the ball more to take pressure off Brady and his ailing ring finger, sore shoulder and aching ribs. By whom?

Years ago, Chuck Fairbanks said it best. “It’s not about X’s and O’s. It’s about Jimmys and Joes.” For half a decade with the Pats people believed otherwise. In Bill We Trust became the motto, but does anyone honestly believe Bill Belichick forgot how to coach? A guy who has been watching game film since he was 6 now can’t break down film and discover a team’s weaknesses?

That’s not the problem. The problem is he can’t ask people to do what they are not capable of doing. Or, worse, he does and you end up with Sam Aiken, a guy brought here to replace Larry Izzo [stats] on special teams, as your third receiver making one great catch for a touchdown and dropping two key ones. Did he have a great game or a disastrous one? Probably both, which is A) not his fault because he’s playing a role he was never supposed to, and B) not something Belichick can change.

“We’ve got to find a way to play better football for 60 minutes in all phases,” Brady said. “Everyone has to focus on what they need to do better. I think that’s the most important thing. And be mentally tough to overcome adversity and if things don’t go your way, you’ve got to fight back. That’s a challenge for all of us. At times I think we do, and other times, I don’t think we fight very hard.”

The latter is a damning statement, but it’s also part of what separates the 2001 Pats from today’s. Remaining undaunted is a skill too and not everyone has it.

“We have leads in the second half, and leads in the fourth quarter,” Brady continued. “We’re just not closing the game out when we have the opportunity to. We’re searching for the answers, too.

“Coach always says, ‘You get what you deserve.’ In too many ways, you don’t deserve to win when you make as many mistakes as we do.”

That’s true whether you make them on the field or in the front office.

Mecca · 12-07-2009, 01:14 PM

That's well known though, the Patriots have been drafting like total shit for quite awhile now.

L.A. Chieffan · 12-07-2009, 01:15 PM

what is this "myth"?

'Hamas' Jenkins · 12-07-2009, 01:17 PM

Here's the problem:

If Belichick was the one making all the decisions, then Pioli didn't deserve the job b/c he wasn't the pro personnel genius he'd been lauded to be.

If Pioli was making decisions along with Belichick, he didn't deserve the job b/c he's done an awful job of evaluating talent

However, I'm sure that many will say it's C): All the good picks are on Pioli and the bad ones are on Belichick...or Carl...or the Jews.

B_Ambuehl · 12-07-2009, 01:19 PM

The myth is Pioli as a talent evaluation god.

I don't think there's much doubt that myth has been destroyed around here but, you know, if there were still any doubts........

Hammock Parties · 12-07-2009, 01:22 PM

What I want to know is how he was voted front officer of the decade or whatever it was...

Brock · 12-07-2009, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

What I want to know is how he was voted front officer of the decade or whatever it was...

That tends to happen when your team wins Super Bowls.

FAX · 12-07-2009, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

What I want to know is how he was voted front officer of the decade or whatever it was...

Probably because he assembled a group of players with sufficient talent to become a dynasty.

FAX

**BigRedChief** · 12-07-2009, 01:26 PM

Pioli's contract is gauranteed in full. Any remaining time left on his contract will be payable in full on his last day as the GM of the Chiefs.

Pioli is going no where. He and Clark are in this for the long haul together.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 12-07-2009, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

What I want to know is how he was voted front officer of the decade or whatever it was...

Carmen "Cap Hell" Policy was voted Executive of the Year, FFS.

Demonpenz · 12-07-2009, 01:31 PM

the gross domestic product in new england is based around Tom Brady

'Hamas' Jenkins · 12-07-2009, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX

Probably because he assembled a group of players with sufficient talent to become a dynasty.

FAX

And it was Hephaestion who was responsible for the conquests of Alexander.

Marcellus · 12-07-2009, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX

Probably because he assembled a group of players with sufficient talent to become a dynasty.

FAX

It was all luck and he didn't anything anyway. Basically he sat in his office all day and collected paychecks and executive awards.

FAX · 12-07-2009, 01:36 PM

Yes, I'm quite certain that Pioli spent those years sitting on his thumbs and collecting his substantial (if not enormous) paycheck while watching Belichick make all the decisions and moves. Equally obvious is the fact that NFL executives know far less than internet BB posters when it comes to evaluating the contribution of their peers to their respective franchises.

FAX

**BigRedChief** · 12-07-2009, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

And it was Hephaestion who was responsible for the conquests of Alexander.

I wonder how many people get that...

12-07-2009, 01:12 PM
B_Ambuehl Veteran Join Date: Apr 2005 Casino cash: $9705405	The myth of Pioli LOL I wonder if he's sharing that loaded contract he got from Clark with Bellichik. http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/c...148&position=0 This time it’s personnel Building to collapse By Ron Borges Monday, December 7, 2009 - Updated 4m ago + Recent Articles MIAMI - Slowly but inexorably they are dissolving in front of our eyes. It is a process that didn’t begin this year for the New England Patriots [team stats] but way back in 2004, when nobody was paying attention to much else but the lifting of another Super Bowl banner. That season they won their third Super Bowl in four seasons but also began a widely ignored decline that manifested itself emphatically the past month and came to a sad head yesterday at Land Shark Stadium when they lost for the third time in four weeks, blowing a 14-0 lead to be beaten at the buzzer by the Miami Dolphins [team stats], 22-21. Five years ago, the Patriots draft garnered two starters, both on the first round. Not another player drafted in April of 2004 is still in uniform. That fallowness continued in 2005 when they again picked only two current starters. In 2006, they got only one, running back Laurence Maroney [stats], plus kicker Stephen Gostkowski. Then came the disaster of 2007, when only first-round pick Brandon Meriweather was good enough to still be in pro football. It is a bit early to know about 2008 but other than linebacker Jerod Mayo it again appears to be a sad lot. Second- and third-round picks Terrence Wheatley and Shawn Crable seldom see the field (Crable never has) and it is becoming increasingly more disastrous that cornerback Jonathan Wilhite sees so much of it. In those five years, the Patriots drafted 41 players and got eight starters, six on the first round. Otherwise they got what Bill Belichick kept saying was “value.” Yesterday, it didn’t look that way. Free agency has produced similarly skimpy results. Early hits were made on Rodney Harrison [stats] and Mike Vrabel, but after that the cupboard has been bare. They paid $30 million to Adalius Thomas and promised he could cover Ocho Cinco and sack Peyton Manning. He’s done neither. Shawn Springs signed a three-year, $10.5 million deal last spring and hasn’t played a snap in a month, while poor Wilhite struggles out of position because he’s a nickel back asked to play corner and rookie Darius Butler goes out and proves that while he has potential he never saw receivers at UConn like the ones catching balls behind and in front of him now, as Greg Camarillo did on fourth-and-6 on the game’s most critical play yesterday. While there were fruitful trades for Randy Moss and Wes Welker, they have netted big numbers but no championships, which is the same amount Moss’ teams have won since he first came into the NFL. These facts led New Orleans Saints coach Sean Payton to tell his team before last Monday night’s game to be stout hearted and unafraid because “this isn’t the team that accomplished all that stuff.” Although his language was more colorful, his point was clear. These Patriots aren’t those Patriots. “It’s not for lack of effort,” center Dan Koppen said not long after Dolphins kicker Dan Carpenter nailed a 41-yard field goal and Tom Brady [stats] responded by throwing his second interception of the day with :35 to play as Cameron Wake hammered him. Koppen is right. The Patriots’ problems are not from lack of effort or lack of planning. They are from lack of talent. Not so lacking that they aren’t competitive, but lacking enough that most every game is a struggle now. Today everyone will say, “They need a better pass rush.” From whom? They will say, “They need better pass coverage.” From whom? Some will say they need to run the ball more to take pressure off Brady and his ailing ring finger, sore shoulder and aching ribs. By whom? Years ago, Chuck Fairbanks said it best. “It’s not about X’s and O’s. It’s about Jimmys and Joes.” For half a decade with the Pats people believed otherwise. In Bill We Trust became the motto, but does anyone honestly believe Bill Belichick forgot how to coach? A guy who has been watching game film since he was 6 now can’t break down film and discover a team’s weaknesses? That’s not the problem. The problem is he can’t ask people to do what they are not capable of doing. Or, worse, he does and you end up with Sam Aiken, a guy brought here to replace Larry Izzo [stats] on special teams, as your third receiver making one great catch for a touchdown and dropping two key ones. Did he have a great game or a disastrous one? Probably both, which is A) not his fault because he’s playing a role he was never supposed to, and B) not something Belichick can change. “We’ve got to find a way to play better football for 60 minutes in all phases,” Brady said. “Everyone has to focus on what they need to do better. I think that’s the most important thing. And be mentally tough to overcome adversity and if things don’t go your way, you’ve got to fight back. That’s a challenge for all of us. At times I think we do, and other times, I don’t think we fight very hard.” The latter is a damning statement, but it’s also part of what separates the 2001 Pats from today’s. Remaining undaunted is a skill too and not everyone has it. “We have leads in the second half, and leads in the fourth quarter,” Brady continued. “We’re just not closing the game out when we have the opportunity to. We’re searching for the answers, too. “Coach always says, ‘You get what you deserve.’ In too many ways, you don’t deserve to win when you make as many mistakes as we do.” That’s true whether you make them on the field or in the front office.
Posts: 2,613

12-07-2009, 01:14 PM	#2
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-492950	That's well known though, the Patriots have been drafting like total shit for quite awhile now.
Posts: 115,250

12-07-2009, 01:15 PM	#3
L.A. Chieffan PLAY GOOD FOOTBALL Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: American Gardens Building Casino cash: $2728654	what is this "myth"?
Posts: 17,400

12-07-2009, 01:17 PM	#4
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7279572	Here's the problem: If Belichick was the one making all the decisions, then Pioli didn't deserve the job b/c he wasn't the pro personnel genius he'd been lauded to be. If Pioli was making decisions along with Belichick, he didn't deserve the job b/c he's done an awful job of evaluating talent However, I'm sure that many will say it's C): All the good picks are on Pioli and the bad ones are on Belichick...or Carl...or the Jews. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 75,077

12-07-2009, 01:19 PM	#5
B_Ambuehl Veteran Join Date: Apr 2005 Casino cash: $9705405	The myth is Pioli as a talent evaluation god. I don't think there's much doubt that myth has been destroyed around here but, you know, if there were still any doubts........
Posts: 2,613

12-07-2009, 01:22 PM	#6
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $1030478	What I want to know is how he was voted front officer of the decade or whatever it was... __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 296,719

12-07-2009, 01:26 PM	#9
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $-561038 VARSITY	Pioli's contract is gauranteed in full. Any remaining time left on his contract will be payable in full on his last day as the GM of the Chiefs. Pioli is going no where. He and Clark are in this for the long haul together. __________________ Mahomes is not a game manager. Release the Kraken.
Posts: 81,254

12-07-2009, 01:31 PM	#11
Demonpenz Woman should only make babies Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Apartment "G UNIT!" Casino cash: $-193864	the gross domestic product in new england is based around Tom Brady __________________
Posts: 54,934

12-07-2009, 01:36 PM	#14
FAX testing ... 1, 2, 3 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Tennessee Casino cash: $6753759	Yes, I'm quite certain that Pioli spent those years sitting on his thumbs and collecting his substantial (if not enormous) paycheck while watching Belichick make all the decisions and moves. Equally obvious is the fact that NFL executives know far less than internet BB posters when it comes to evaluating the contribution of their peers to their respective franchises. FAX
Posts: 44,492