2013 Kansas City Royals Repository Thread

[duncan_idaho]

Proposed 2013 Slogan: Tigers: They're what's for dinner
Actual 2013 Slogan: Come to Play
A better, more accurate, or alternative slogan: All in, no panic, we promise.

Dayton Moore has pushed all his chips in and is riding on King/Jack suited, hoping it comes together, he gets some good luck, and he hits the nuts by the river card. There's potential, oh yes, there's potential. There's also risk.

At the midway point, Dayton is left counting on the river card. The flop and turn didn't help him, and he's looking at the Tigers holding a pair of Queens and the Indians holding a pair of 9s. His 2013 plan hasn't failed - yet - but the odds are not in his favor.

Burning questions updates below.

Burning Questions for 2013:

1) Will the improve rotation be improved enough? Does James Shields pitch like a fringe No. 1 away from Tampa Bay? Does Ervin Santana pitch to his highest upside in his walk year? Can Jeremy Guthrie build on his strong performance as a Royal in 2012? Can Wade Davis bring his new mentality- and velocity - back to the rotation?

Midseason check-in: Yes, the rotation is certainly improved enough. Shields has pitched like a fringe No. 1 and Santana is having his best season. Guthrie has horrible peripherals but has continued to perform well at his home park and eat innings on the road. Davis brought neither his kick-ass mentality or improved velocity back to the rotation and is in Luke Hochevar/Hiram Davies territory.

2) When will Luke Hochevar be shown the door?
Midseason check-in: It appears, never, at this point. Hochevar has been solid in non-leverage situations, though pretty much every time he has been used with men on base in an inning, it has been a disaster.

3) Does Hosmer bounce back?
Midseason check-in: It took some time, but Hosmer's performance from June 1 on is probably the most encouraging thing about the 2013 season so far.
4) Can Moustakas hit for a whole season like he did in the first half of 2012?
Midseason check-in: Nope. Moustakas was god-awful, then great for about 3 weeks, then god-awful again. He has been better since he started working with Brett and Grafol but still has a long way to go.
5) Who regresses?
Midseason check-in: Welp, Alicides Escobar is not a surprising name here (though Yost's stubborn insistence on hitting him second is ridiculous). Billy Butler is a surprise. He isn't having a terrible year - still contributing a lot to the offense - but he's not hitting for the average or power he has displayed over the past several years.
6) Who plays 2B?
Midseason check-in: A whole bunch of people, and not that great. Gio is at least getting a shot, though he once again is not doing much with it.
7) Can Jeff Francoeur be at least replacement level, rather than epic horrible level?
Midseason check-in: Hahahahahahahahahahaha
8) Will Dayton Moore survive to see 2014?
Midseason check-in: Outlook uncertain. Probably still around, unless the team completely tanks in the second half and he does something foolish. My guess - he sacrifices Ned Yost this offseason and gets one more shot with a new manager in 2014.
9) Will Danny Duffy come back healthy? And if he does, is he the same, better or worse?
Midseason check-in: Yes. Velocity looks the same, and it looks likely he is the same guy as before.
10) And the big one: Has KC added enough to run down the big-money Detroit Tigers?
Midseason check-in: Doesn't look like it, does it?

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

Because you can't talk about long term WAR values of what KC got but not what Milwaukee got. Jean Segura is clearly part of the Greinke deal because they got him for Greinke. They traded Cain, Escobar, Odorizzi for 2 years Zack + Jean Segura.


But let's assume you're right and we'll just invalidate Segura entirely. Let's stipulate that. So what? The Royals traded for a CF with 2.0 WAR. Their backup Dyson already has 0.8 WAR in 1/4 the at-bats. Why on Earth did we give up something so valuable as Zack to get a player who's no better than what we already have? Admit, it's a great question no?

To your question:

Jarrod Dyson is having a nice season and provides the great D and baserunning you'd expect from him, when in the game. Cain is on pace for 4.4 bWAR or 3.5 fWAR, both impressive totals that establish him as a well-above average CF. It's unlikely Dyson could reach those totals in a full season, because some of his flaws would get exposed if playing every day (like his inability to hit lefthanded pitching).

No one evaluates trades the way you're trying to, because it becomes a convoluted exercise that tells you nothing about the trade itself. You can't track every breadcrumb that eventualizes from a trade. How would you track the value KC gets out of Odorizzi?

There's really nothing to support your assertion it was a salary dump. And there's really nothing to support continuing to blast on the trade. The Royals got two valuable, cheap, controlled, above-average everyday players back for Greinke, and another piece was used as collateral elsewhere.

Like I said, Moore has made plenty of mistakes. Hammering on the Greinke deal is just dumb, really. There's nothing wrong with the return received there.

[duncan_idaho]

Wins tell you about as much about how good a pitcher actually is as his eye color. It was a little bit different when starters often pitched complete games, but in today's baseball setting, wins are next to worthless.

See: Roger Clemens 2004 season, in which every stat except wins made it clear he was the best pitcher in baseball, but he only won 11 or 12 games (for a team that was a contending team, no less).

[Deberg_1990]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Wins tell you about as much about how good a pitcher actually is as his eye color. It was a little bit different when starters often pitched complete games, but in today's baseball setting, wins are next to worthless.

See: Roger Clemens 2004 season, in which every stat except wins made it clear he was the best pitcher in baseball, but he only won 11 or 12 games (for a team that was a contending team, no less).

Exactly. The win totals for a lot of good pitchers has started to decrease over the years because they pull starters so much earlier. The last 25+ game winner was Bob Welch 23 years ago. Cy Young voters have also changed their opinions on pure wins and losses.

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by sedated

Dude. No one can seriously be this stupid.

Glass loves you... You're the stat he counts on...

Seriously, you guys making lemonade out of lemons, thinking people don't understand how you're making it, is just funny...

So I hope you feel like you have some kind of corner on the market for all things obvious, but alas, you do not.

Well, I'll give you this, some of you have found the silver lining in the storm cloud. And what's funny, he and his wins will be gone long before he gets the support he needs to help this team make a playoff run.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

Glass loves you... You're the stat he counts on...

Seriously, you guys making lemonade out of lemons, thinking people don't understand how you're making it, is just funny...

So I hope you feel like you have some kind of corner on the market for all things obvious, but alas, you do not.

Well, I'll give you this, some of you have found the silver lining in the storm cloud. And what's funny, he and his wins will be gone long before he gets the support he needs to help this team make a playoff run.

Trading for Shields, given what the Royals sacrificed, was epically stupid. However, one can hold this correct opinion without mitigating the impressive talent of Shields himself.

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Wins tell you about as much about how good a pitcher actually is as his eye color. It was a little bit different when starters often pitched complete games, but in today's baseball setting, wins are next to worthless.

See: Roger Clemens 2004 season, in which every stat except wins made it clear he was the best pitcher in baseball, but he only won 11 or 12 games (for a team that was a contending team, no less).

That's why they reference it as they announce the who the pitchers are... "It's 4-6 Tommy John who has green eyes going up against the 9-2 Tony Johnson who has blue eyes." Yeah, that's what they say...

Yeah, it actually does mean something... It may not tell the whole story, but it's not irrelevant either. And as starters do get pulled earlier it might grow less meaningful.

But one thing's for sure, I'm Shield's 2nd biggest fan now, he totally made this team awesome and a contender. He sure did provide the leadership we needed for the youngs kids to step up and realize their full potential..

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Trading for Shields, given what the Royals sacrificed, was epically stupid. However, one can hold this correct opinion without mitigating the impressive talent of Shields himself.

He is good, I'll give you that, he's just not playing for an owner that'll surround him with players who will ever pull their load, cumulatively, enough to make a run for anything meaningful.

[-King-]

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

Glass loves you... You're the stat he counts on...

Won games? I think those are the stats everybody should count on also.

[Cephalic Trauma]

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

That's why they reference it as they announce the who the pitchers are... "It's 4-6 Tommy John who has green eyes going up against the 9-2 Tony Johnson who has blue eyes." Yeah, that's what they say...

Yeah, it actually does mean something... It may not tell the whole story, but it's not irrelevant either. And as starters do get pulled earlier it might grow less meaningful.

But one thing's for sure, I'm Shield's 2nd biggest fan now, he totally made this team awesome and a contender. He sure did provide the leadership we needed for the youngs kids to step up and realize their full potential..

This just keeps getting worse.

Here, I'll help you: "I was wrong. I posted something really stupid via screenshot because the point was lost on me. Sorry, I'll quit making myself look more pathetic and try to learn something from my mistake."

There. Better?

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by Cephalic Trauma

This just keeps getting worse.

Here, I'll help you: "I was wrong. I posted something really stupid via screenshot because the point was lost on me. Sorry, I'll quit making myself look more pathetic and try to learn something from my mistake."

There. Better?

I think not... Perhaps I'll say something after his next start when the announce him as "The Royals winning 8 of his last 9 starts" instead and not mentioning the 4-6 stat. Oh, that's tomorrow (unless it rains here), and they might mention what you see below. So far, short of the live broadcast that has yet to air, he's being introduced as being 4-6 and going up against Fister who's 7-5. Interestingly they do show the ERA, but alas, nothing about how many wins they've had in their last nine starts, nothing about any family member who won a pie contest, nothing about having won yard of the month any number of months over the last nine months, and nothing about what their eye colors are. Nope, it's 7-5 Fister against 4-6 Shields and their ERAs (which Shields' is better!)...

I'm happy we've won those games, and that's the common ground we stand on. And that's a good thing...

[Coach]

I'm glad we have Shields on this team. It's been a long time since KC actually have a decent starting pitcher that's worth a shit, outside of Grienke's unbelievable Cy Young year. Santana as well. I guess some of us have short term memory of shitty pitchers before Shields and Santana was here....

[Coach]

Wins and losses for starting pitchers is a useless stat.

[SPATCH]

Glory "Clown Shoes" Dayz

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by Coach

I'm glad we have Shields on this team. It's been a long time since KC actually have a decent starting pitcher that's worth a shit, outside of Grienke's unbelievable Cy Young year. Santana as well. I guess some of us have short term memory of shitty pitchers before Shields and Santana was here....

I'm glad we have him too, just sorry he probably won't ever have a supporting cast that'll do anything but waste his talent.

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by the_spatula

Glory "Clown Shoes" Dayz

LOL, from the guy who's afraid of Bruno Mars... Nice...