Cardinals 2018 STL Cardinals Thread - Page 230

**BigRedChief** · 02:21 PM

Opening day lineup

Fowler RF
Pham CF
Carpenter 3B
Ozuna LF
Martinez 1B
Molina C
Dejong SS
Wong 2B
Pitcher

Edit:
Matheny fired 07/14/2018

Opening Day Roster

Spoiler!

O.city · 08-30-2018, 07:47 AM

Can they pick up an INF on waivers? Or an OF?

Got a feeling this streak is about to hit the skids pretty hard.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 08-30-2018, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Can they pick up an INF on waivers? Or an OF?

Got a feeling this streak is about to hit the skids pretty hard.

Well, of course they *can*. The question is will they, and who will they have to release to do so.

It turns out that ESPN's 40-man is totally ****ed, so don't look at that. Still, the 40-man is jam-packed, and will only get more onerous to navigate if they activate Wainwright. Releasing Bowman would help with that, but to add another bat would require that they release someone else. I'd have no issues if they got rid of Greg Garcia, though.

The biggest issue will come during the offseason. That roster is going to get mighty tight.

**BigRedChief** · 08-30-2018, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

The biggest issue will come during the offseason. That roster is going to get mighty tight.

Which are more reasons that we need to put together some quarters to get a $ player.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

I'd have no issues if they got rid of Greg Garcia, though.

Yep, he needs to be the first to go. What he does can be done by others with more talent or upside.

DJ's left nut · 08-30-2018, 01:23 PM

Yeah, I put my probable 'Rule 5' 40 man list together earlier this month after the trade deadline:

There are 31 guys that I'm pretty sure are locks:
Flaherty, Martinez, Mikolas, Reyes, Wacha, Hudson, Gant, Gomber, Hicks, Poncedeleon, Weaver, Leone, Mayers, Shreve, Cecil, Gallegos, Molina, Backup C, Carpenter, DeJong, Jedd, Martinez, Munoz, Bader, O'Neill, Ozuna, JAG, Wong, Kelly, Justin Williams, Edmundo Sosa

Guys that are presently on there who may not stay -- Brebbia, Garcia, Darien Gonzalez, Connor Greene

Guys who are presently on there who almost certainly won't stay -- Webb, Fowler, Gregerson, Bowman

Notable guys who need to be added to keep out of the rule 5 -- Helsley, Schrock, Junior Fernandez, Lane Thomas, Genesis Cabrera, Wadye Infante

And then Elehuris Montero and Ramon Urias might be. I really can't tell. Montero is super young to need to be on the 40 but he's been in this system since 2014. If we trust his birthday, we signed this kid 3 weeks after he turned 16. So technically speaking, he's been in the organization for 5 rule 5 drafts, which by my reading means he needs to be protected this year.

So lets say you outright Gonzalez, Brebbia, Garcia, Webb, Gregerson, Bowman and Webb. You cut Fowler. You have to add Helsley and Schrock - they'll get snapped up. Cabrera as well; I wouldn't risk losing Thomas either. You probably go ahead and expose Wadye Infante and Junior Fernandez.

So your 31 locks plus Greene, Helsley, Schrock, Thomas and Cabrera gets you to 36. If Montero needs to be added you're at 37. You need to add another veteran arm to the bullpen to absorb some innings and a lefthanded bat on the bench to get you to 39. And if you figure I just missed someone else that needs to be added (it's not that easy to figure out), you're at 40.

I still wish they'd have just called up Justin Williams. His option year was already used with TB this season so there are no option worries. He's already on the 40 man so that spot is still free. Adding JAG to the 40 man when they didn't even need to do so t his offseason was just a mistake. Especially just to get a few largely unproductive at-bats out of a kid that's probably not going to make a meaningful contribution this season either way.

Mozeliak is notorious for shortsighted 40 man moves and that was one of them. I don't know that it will actually bite us that badly next season because Fernandez's injury and Infante's regression probably means you can expose them pretty easily. I'd kinda like to keep Webb if possible; he has a nice LOOGY arsenal. And Brebbia's a useful enough mop-up guy.

There's not a ton of free space to work with here but really, do any of us expect Mozeliak to make a roster splash anyway?

DJ's left nut · 08-30-2018, 02:58 PM

Cardinals AFL players announced:

Pitchers:
Conner Greene
Evan Kruczynski
Andrew Morales
Connor Jones

Hitters:
Jeremy Martinez
Tommy Edman
Andy Young
Lane Thomas

I've have replaced Morales and Jones with Woodford and Gonzalez from the pitchers and I'd have replaced Edman and Young with Sosa and Urias from the hitters.

I want Woodford to get more cracks against advanced hitters and I think we need to give Gonzalez one more crack to stay on the 40 man. I think Edman and Young profile as utility players. Sosa and Urias probably do as well but I think they both profile as similar offensive players to Edman and Young with better defensive tools. Both Edman and Young are stretched defensively up the middle whereas Sosa and Urias are pretty gifted there with room to be plus defenders who can give you more than Greg Garcia on offense.

Though Young's recent tear probably gives him a good case to have earned that opportunity so I understand why they'd send him.

**BigRedChief** · 08-30-2018, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Cardinals AFL players announced:

Pitchers:
Conner Greene
Evan Kruczynski
Andrew Morales
Connor Jones

Hitters:
Jeremy Martinez
Tommy Edman
Andy Young
Lane Thomas

I've have replaced Morales and Jones with Woodford and Gonzalez from the pitchers and I'd have replaced Edman and Young with Sosa and Urias from the hitters.

I want Woodford to get more cracks against advanced hitters and I think we need to give Gonzalez one more crack to stay on the 40 man. I think Edman and Young profile as utility players. Sosa and Urias probably do as well but I think they both profile as similar offensive players to Edman and Young with better defensive tools. Both Edman and Young are stretched defensively up the middle whereas Sosa and Urias are pretty gifted there with room to be plus defenders who can give you more than Greg Garcia on offense.

Though Young's recent tear probably gives him a good case to have earned that opportunity so I understand why they'd send him.

Should I expect any of these to be All-Stars someday in their career? Anyone with that kind of upside? Or lowering the bar, replace anyone on this current team based on performance next year or the next?

DJ's left nut · 08-30-2018, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Should I expect any of these to be All-Stars someday in their career? Anyone with that kind of upside? Or lowering the bar, replace anyone on this current team based on performance next year or the next?

No.

Morales and Jones probably don't ever get more than a cup of coffee in the majors and if everything goes well they become John Brebbia someday. Greene will probably never figure out his command enough to become anything more than a taller, whiter Esteban Yan; dude's stuff is outstanding but he simply has no idea where it's going.

Kruczynski...sneaky Gomber potential there. Polished lefty that's moved fast through the system. He doesn't have that big ol' wipeout curve that Gomber has and frankly I still have no idea how Gomber can pitch as well up in the zone as he does; I don't expect Kruz to do that because I'm pretty sure it's witchcraft. But I think you have a solid lefty reliever in the Lyons mold at worst with some sort of Jarrod Washburny sort of back of the rotation lefty who's name it takes you a solid 10 minutes to come up with after dismissing Ross Detweiler, Aaron Sele, Jon Garland and for some reason, Aaron Laffey.

So maybe he's Lyons, maybe he's Washburn...maybe he's just another pitcher that flames out. Which is to say I have nothing.

Martinez is a likely backup catcher for a few years. Nice enough hitter in college and a nice enough catch and throw guy. Doesn't seem to do anything well or poorly. Could really see him being an Ed Easley type who plays a lot of catcher in the minors well and just never breaks through. I like Lane Thomas more than I probably should but he's extremely boom or bust. Either he becomes more consistent and ends up a 2-3 WAR player who's an asset in the corner oF and can play CF in a pinch or he just fades away because he can't sustain success for long enough. He's just so up and down.

Young and Edman are MI guys who, like a dozen other guys in the system, will almost certainly play in the majors someday but are unlikely to ever be spectacular in any way. Edman's handy because he can play a decent SS and is a switch hitter. Young is showing a fair amount of power but he's out of runway. Either he hits the ground scorching next year and proves that he's a genuine 15-20 HR threat who can play solid defense at 2b or he scuffles through AAA at 25 years old and we forget about him shortly thereafter. He's a half season further behind in his development than he should be, to be honest. He should be getting some licks in at AAA right now. That's the downside to having as much depth as the Cards do in their system with no clear standouts - Young was caught in a numbers game and now he's racing the clock to maintain prospect status.

If he torches the AFL, he can start next season in AAA and suddenly we're cooking with gas there.

**BigRedChief** · 08-30-2018, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

No.

Morales and Jones probably don't ever get more than a cup of coffee in the majors and if everything goes well they become John Brebbia someday. Greene will probably never figure out his command enough to become anything more than a taller, whiter Esteban Yan; dude's stuff is outstanding but he simply has no idea where it's going.

Kruczynski...sneaky Gomber potential there. Polished lefty that's moved fast through the system. He doesn't have that big ol' wipeout curve that Gomber has and frankly I still have no idea how Gomber can pitch as well up in the zone as he does; I don't expect Kruz to do that because I'm pretty sure it's witchcraft. But I think you have a solid lefty reliever in the Lyons mold at worst with some sort of Jarrod Washburny sort of back of the rotation lefty who's name it takes you a solid 10 minutes to come up with after dismissing Ross Detweiler, Aaron Sele, Jon Garland and for some reason, Aaron Laffey.

So maybe he's Lyons, maybe he's Washburn...maybe he's just another pitcher that flames out. Which is to say I have nothing.

Martinez is a likely backup catcher for a few years. Nice enough hitter in college and a nice enough catch and throw guy. Doesn't seem to do anything well or poorly. Could really see him being an Ed Easley type who plays a lot of catcher in the minors well and just never breaks through. I like Lane Thomas more than I probably should but he's extremely boom or bust. Either he becomes more consistent and ends up a 2-3 WAR player who's an asset in the corner oF and can play CF in a pinch or he just fades away because he can't sustain success for long enough. He's just so up and down.

Young and Edman are MI guys who, like a dozen other guys in the system, will almost certainly play in the majors someday but are unlikely to ever be spectacular in any way. Edman's handy because he can play a decent SS and is a switch hitter. Young is showing a fair amount of power but he's out of runway. Either he hits the ground scorching next year and proves that he's a genuine 15-20 HR threat who can play solid defense at 2b or he scuffles through AAA at 25 years old and we forget about him shortly thereafter. He's a half season further behind in his development than he should be, to be honest. He should be getting some licks in at AAA right now. That's the downside to having as much depth as the Cards do in their system with no clear standouts - Young was caught in a numbers game and now he's racing the clock to maintain prospect status.

If he torches the AFL, he can start next season in AAA and suddenly we're cooking with gas there.

Thanks for the great info.

**BigRedChief** · 08-30-2018, 10:23 PM

2nd best record in the NL. Geezzz this is the best turnaround for a Cardinals team I can remember.

Marco Polo · 08-31-2018, 06:57 AM

Just read we are going against Scherzer on Monday- the game I'm planning on attending. Why couldn't it be literally anyone else?!

Jewish Rabbi · 08-31-2018, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco Polo

Just read we are going against Scherzer on Monday- the game I'm planning on attending. Why couldn't it be literally anyone else?!

Man, even if the Cards end up getting shut out, you get to see a generational talent in person. That’s pretty cool if you ask me.

**BigRedChief** · 08-31-2018, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jewish Rabbi

Man, even if the Cards end up getting shut out, you get to see a generational talent in person. That’s pretty cool if you ask me.

That wanted to pitch in his home town. For the team he grew up loving. What a wasted opportunity.

George Liquor · 08-31-2018, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

That wanted to pitch in his home town. For the team he grew up loving. What a wasted opportunity.

Too risky

DJ's left nut · 08-31-2018, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

That wanted to pitch in his home town. For the team he grew up loving. What a wasted opportunity.

Wasted?

We used that dry powder to acquire Mike Leake and Dexter Fowler. How can that be a waste? Mike Leake was a credible #3 starter for about 6 weeks and Fowler actually hit a few baseballs for a 10 week span in a lost season last year.

Surely that's a worthwhile consolation for not pursuing Scherzer with any vigor...

Marco Polo · 08-31-2018, 09:45 AM

MLB.com's Jon Morosi reports that the Cardinals "have emerged as a suitor" for Josh Donaldson.

Morosi adds that Cardinals officials "intensified their efforts to add a position player" when Kolten Wong (hamstring) and Jedd Gyorko (groin) were placed on the disabled list. The fit makes sense, especially since the Cards have been connected to Donaldson often in the past. Of course, St. Louis is way down on the waiver priority for Donaldson, so they might not even get a shot at him. The Indians have previously been listed as a possible landing spot for Donaldson, but Morosi hears that the chances of him being dealt to Cleveland are "slim" because they want to keep Jose Ramirez at third base.

01-02-2018, 05:51 PM
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $-611038 VARSITY	2018 STL Cardinals Thread Opening day lineup Fowler RF Pham CF Carpenter 3B Ozuna LF Martinez 1B Molina C Dejong SS Wong 2B Pitcher Edit: Matheny fired 07/14/2018 Opening Day Roster Spoiler! St. Louis has opted to carry 12 position players and 13 pitchers to begin the new season, with a four-man bench and eight-man bullpen. Outfielders: Dexter Fowler Tommy Pham Marcell Ozuna Infielders: Matt Carpenter Paul DeJong Kolten Wong Catchers: Yadier Molina Francisco Pena Utility: Jose Martinez Greg Garcia Yairo Munoz Jedd Gyrko Starters: Carlos Martinez Michael Wacha Luke Weaver Miles Mikolas Jack Flaherty Relievers: Dominic Leone Tyler Lyons Bud Norris Brett Cecil Sam Tuivailala Matt Bowman Jordan Hicks Mike Mayers On the DL: Adam Wainwright Luke Gregerson Last edited by BigRedChief; 07-17-2018 at 02:21 PM..
Posts: 81,268

08-30-2018, 07:47 AM	#3436
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $-565936	Can they pick up an INF on waivers? Or an OF? Got a feeling this streak is about to hit the skids pretty hard.
Posts: 84,159

08-30-2018, 01:23 PM	#3439
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $-680901	Yeah, I put my probable 'Rule 5' 40 man list together earlier this month after the trade deadline: There are 31 guys that I'm pretty sure are locks: Flaherty, Martinez, Mikolas, Reyes, Wacha, Hudson, Gant, Gomber, Hicks, Poncedeleon, Weaver, Leone, Mayers, Shreve, Cecil, Gallegos, Molina, Backup C, Carpenter, DeJong, Jedd, Martinez, Munoz, Bader, O'Neill, Ozuna, JAG, Wong, Kelly, Justin Williams, Edmundo Sosa Guys that are presently on there who may not stay -- Brebbia, Garcia, Darien Gonzalez, Connor Greene Guys who are presently on there who almost certainly won't stay -- Webb, Fowler, Gregerson, Bowman Notable guys who need to be added to keep out of the rule 5 -- Helsley, Schrock, Junior Fernandez, Lane Thomas, Genesis Cabrera, Wadye Infante And then Elehuris Montero and Ramon Urias might be. I really can't tell. Montero is super young to need to be on the 40 but he's been in this system since 2014. If we trust his birthday, we signed this kid 3 weeks after he turned 16. So technically speaking, he's been in the organization for 5 rule 5 drafts, which by my reading means he needs to be protected this year. So lets say you outright Gonzalez, Brebbia, Garcia, Webb, Gregerson, Bowman and Webb. You cut Fowler. You have to add Helsley and Schrock - they'll get snapped up. Cabrera as well; I wouldn't risk losing Thomas either. You probably go ahead and expose Wadye Infante and Junior Fernandez. So your 31 locks plus Greene, Helsley, Schrock, Thomas and Cabrera gets you to 36. If Montero needs to be added you're at 37. You need to add another veteran arm to the bullpen to absorb some innings and a lefthanded bat on the bench to get you to 39. And if you figure I just missed someone else that needs to be added (it's not that easy to figure out), you're at 40. I still wish they'd have just called up Justin Williams. His option year was already used with TB this season so there are no option worries. He's already on the 40 man so that spot is still free. Adding JAG to the 40 man when they didn't even need to do so t his offseason was just a mistake. Especially just to get a few largely unproductive at-bats out of a kid that's probably not going to make a meaningful contribution this season either way. Mozeliak is notorious for shortsighted 40 man moves and that was one of them. I don't know that it will actually bite us that badly next season because Fernandez's injury and Infante's regression probably means you can expose them pretty easily. I'd kinda like to keep Webb if possible; he has a nice LOOGY arsenal. And Brebbia's a useful enough mop-up guy. There's not a ton of free space to work with here but really, do any of us expect Mozeliak to make a roster splash anyway? __________________ "If there's a god, he's laughing at us.....and our football team..." "When you look at something through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
Posts: 66,750

08-30-2018, 02:58 PM	#3440
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $-680901	Cardinals AFL players announced: Pitchers: Conner Greene Evan Kruczynski Andrew Morales Connor Jones Hitters: Jeremy Martinez Tommy Edman Andy Young Lane Thomas I've have replaced Morales and Jones with Woodford and Gonzalez from the pitchers and I'd have replaced Edman and Young with Sosa and Urias from the hitters. I want Woodford to get more cracks against advanced hitters and I think we need to give Gonzalez one more crack to stay on the 40 man. I think Edman and Young profile as utility players. Sosa and Urias probably do as well but I think they both profile as similar offensive players to Edman and Young with better defensive tools. Both Edman and Young are stretched defensively up the middle whereas Sosa and Urias are pretty gifted there with room to be plus defenders who can give you more than Greg Garcia on offense. Though Young's recent tear probably gives him a good case to have earned that opportunity so I understand why they'd send him. __________________ "If there's a god, he's laughing at us.....and our football team..." "When you look at something through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
Posts: 66,750

08-30-2018, 10:23 PM	#3444
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $-611038 VARSITY	2nd best record in the NL. Geezzz this is the best turnaround for a Cardinals team I can remember. __________________ Mahomes is not a game manager. Release the Kraken.
Posts: 81,268

08-31-2018, 06:57 AM	#3445
Marco Polo Veteran Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: 41°59.4′N 87°39.6'W Casino cash: $3968908	Just read we are going against Scherzer on Monday- the game I'm planning on attending. Why couldn't it be literally anyone else?!
Posts: 2,540

08-31-2018, 09:45 AM	#3450
Marco Polo Veteran Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: 41°59.4′N 87°39.6'W Casino cash: $3968908	MLB.com's Jon Morosi reports that the Cardinals "have emerged as a suitor" for Josh Donaldson. Morosi adds that Cardinals officials "intensified their efforts to add a position player" when Kolten Wong (hamstring) and Jedd Gyorko (groin) were placed on the disabled list. The fit makes sense, especially since the Cards have been connected to Donaldson often in the past. Of course, St. Louis is way down on the waiver priority for Donaldson, so they might not even get a shot at him. The Indians have previously been listed as a possible landing spot for Donaldson, but Morosi hears that the chances of him being dealt to Cleveland are "slim" because they want to keep Jose Ramirez at third base.
Posts: 2,540