2018 STL Cardinals Thread

[BigRedChief]

Opening day lineup

Fowler RF
Pham CF
Carpenter 3B
Ozuna LF
Martinez 1B
Molina C
Dejong SS
Wong 2B
Pitcher

Edit:
Matheny fired 07/14/2018




Opening Day Roster

Spoiler!

St. Louis has opted to carry 12 position players and 13 pitchers to begin the new season, with a four-man bench and eight-man bullpen.

Outfielders:
Dexter Fowler
Tommy Pham
Marcell Ozuna

Infielders:
Matt Carpenter
Paul DeJong
Kolten Wong

Catchers:
Yadier Molina
Francisco Pena

Utility:
Jose Martinez
Greg Garcia
Yairo Munoz
Jedd Gyrko

Starters:
Carlos Martinez
Michael Wacha
Luke Weaver
Miles Mikolas
Jack Flaherty

Relievers:
Dominic Leone
Tyler Lyons
Bud Norris
Brett Cecil
Sam Tuivailala
Matt Bowman
Jordan Hicks
Mike Mayers

On the DL:
Adam Wainwright
Luke Gregerson

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

I'm warming to the line up if Fowler or O'Neill can be an average RF. Goldy is a lineup game changer.

Of course you are.

"I'll be mad if this is all they're gonna do..."

"This is all we're gonna do..."

"Okay."

Moe and Dollar Bill love you, man. You are just right in their wheelhouse.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Of course you are.

"I'll be mad if this is all they're gonna do..."

"This is all we're gonna do..."

"Okay."

Moe and Dollar Bill love you, man. You are just right in their wheelhouse.

They haven't got a dime from me in 8.5 years.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

They haven't got a dime from me in 8.5 years.

Why not? You seem pleased as punch with the direction of the franchise. Mr. "we want to win 90 games" has probably done just enough to get there and you no longer see a need to further upgrade the roster.

So what are you waiting for?

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Why not? You seem pleased as punch with the direction of the franchise. Mr. "we want to win 90 games" has probably done just enough to get there and you no longer see a need to further upgrade the roster.

So what are you waiting for?

I don't live in the area. Got plenty of Cardinals gear. I'm not their target audience. You have to live in the area and go to games.


Of course we still need to upgrade the roster.

[George Liquor]

Fowler needs to be released. Period

[Marco Polo]

Mo said they still plan to meet with Harper next week. Not getting my hopes up but we shall see. Also looks like a potential extension for Goldy will be 5/150.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Marco Polo

Mo said they still plan to meet with Harper next week. Not getting my hopes up but we shall see. Also looks like a potential extension for Goldy will be 5/150.

Hey - he admits they're still looking for a left-handed bat off the bench.

I mean obviously they won't put Harper on the bench, but if they can get him to accept that $4-5 million/season for 2 seasons that they've allocated to the reserve role, they can put Fowler on the bench and they're golden.

They're still in it, guys!

[DJ's left nut]

The only thing that would change it, FYI, is DeWitt.

Remember - Boras doesn't even meet with GM's or even club presidents on his top-end guys. He schedules meetings with owners.

Mozeliak will be in that room doing everything he can to talk DeWitt out of signing Harper but if DeWitt finally decides he's had enough of this chickenshit 'algorithm' crap, he can still get it done.

[Prison Bitch]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

He's a ****ing nut.

So?

And look - guys can start pitching backwards or find a new off-speed pitch to get by as their velocity declines for awhile. They can even have a pretty significant stumble in there and for at least a year figure it out.

But Greinke's throwing 89-90 now. His rope is gone. His margin for error is effectively zero and pitching backwards only works for as long as its unexpected. Once hitters realize that he's using his offspeed to set up the 'heat', they're gonna knock his ass around.

He threw 207ip last year with 3.5 fWAR. Obv your thesis isn't showing up yet. And what SP isn't occasionally knocked around? Even Kershaw and Bumgarner and

He's been a pitching savant since he was 19 years old so I have no doubt that he'll pitch more effectively at 89 mph than most guys would at that speed, but

To that point I pulled up gis dasgboard to see what his slider is doing. That and his FB are now avg, but his changeup ia now one of the best in MLB. He's got such good command he can just shift into a superior pitch (Kershaw and Bumgarner can't). He's also extremely durable.

it's not a tenable long-term plan

That's my point.

and there are 3 years left on that deal. The odds of him being at 87 next year are better than the odds of him being at 91 and if that's what he's working with, he's a pinata waiting to happen.

They all are.

And he's a ****ing nut.

So?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

He threw 207ip last year with 3.5 fWAR. Obv your thesis isn't showing up yet. And what SP isn't occasionally knocked around? Even Kershaw and Bumgarner and

To that point I pulled up gis dasgboard to see what his slider is doing. That and his FB are now avg, but his changeup ia now one of the best in MLB. He's got such good command he can just shift into a superior pitch (Kershaw and Bumgarner can't). He's also extremely durable.

He hasn't fallen off - yet. That's what I'm saying; it's not a viable long-term plan. It can work for awhile but ultimately you become a RH junk-tosser and those guys aren't long for this earth.

And again - that's operating under an assumption that he doesn't continue to lose velocity, an assumption that I'm not sure is wise to make. You say his fastball is average and even that is a heck of a stretch; it got hit HARD last season. I'm hard pressed to find a single positive trait for it - the velocity is well below average and the movement may actually be worse. At best, he knows how to use it to effect outside of the zone to get guys to chase - which again is just another profile of a junk tosser. When the best thing I can say about the guys fastball is that it works okay when he doesn't throw a strike with it, that leaves his paths to success as being limited at best.

His slider started to get hit as well (and that's not surprising; he lost the depth he had on it a few years ago and he knew it when he stopped using it nearly as often as a putaway pitch). He does have two good pitches in his change and his curve but again - when you're trying to use them to set up an 89 mph fastball, that's only going to work to a point and that period of time is limited at best.

He's become a slow, slower, slowest kind of pitcher and there's a clear floor there. Moreover, that approach also makes him a 5, maybe 6 inning pitcher. If you let that guy face the order a 3rd time, you're just asking for abuse. He doesn't have the stuff or the myriad of available ways to get guys out to face an order a 3rd time through.

I think he's a fine guy to take a flyer on at 2 years, $32 million. But at 3 years and north of $90 million? Oh hell no - that's lunacy. There are way too many flags and no upside in it. He's a righthanded pitcher with an aging lefthanders arsenal. That arsenal as a righty puts him so close to the borderline against RH hitters that even a small amount of decreased effectiveness (likely given his age) will make him borderline unpitchable. He'll still be able to work around some of the worse RH matchups and attack lefties with his change to keep rallies from snowballing (while leaning on his curve against weaker righties) but literally EVERYTHING in his profile says 3rd starter at best with 4th being likely and swingman being a distinct possibility.

There isn't a good reason to take Greinke even if the D-Backs ate half his contract.

[Marco Polo]

Nationals owner Mark Lerner said in an interview on 106.7 FM The Fan on Friday of Bryce Harper that "I really don't expect him to come back at this point."

Lerner said that when the team made Harper the reported 10-year, $300 million offer on the last day of the regular season, "we told them, 'This is the best we can do.'" He added that that offer "very well may be" off the table at this point after the additions they've made since then and ones they still plan to make. General manager Mike Rizzo indicated earlier Friday that the Patrick Corbin signing didn't necessarily rule the club out for re-signing Harper, but the writing is on the wall at this point.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Marco Polo

Nationals owner Mark Lerner said in an interview on 106.7 FM The Fan on Friday of Bryce Harper that "I really don't expect him to come back at this point."

Lerner said that when the team made Harper the reported 10-year, $300 million offer on the last day of the regular season, "we told them, 'This is the best we can do.'" He added that that offer "very well may be" off the table at this point after the additions they've made since then and ones they still plan to make. General manager Mike Rizzo indicated earlier Friday that the Patrick Corbin signing didn't necessarily rule the club out for re-signing Harper, but the writing is on the wall at this point.

I think the Corbin deal pretty well confirmed that.

He's bluffing w/r/t the offer being off the table - if Boras showed up tomorrow willing to sign that deal, they'd take it and find a way to make it work - but they aren't upping it and I'd be surprised if that got it done.

And frankly, just more pissed off. If he goes for $30 million with no opt outs and we didn't beat it...ugh.

[Marco Polo]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I think the Corbin deal pretty well confirmed that.

He's bluffing w/r/t the offer being off the table - if Boras showed up tomorrow willing to sign that deal, they'd take it and find a way to make it work - but they aren't upping it and I'd be surprised if that got it done.

And frankly, just more pissed off. If he goes for $30 million with no opt outs and we didn't beat it...ugh.

Agreed. It also came out today that Harper isn't "enamored" with the city of Philadelphia. I doubt he'd want to go to the White Sox since they were a 60 win team. This is turning into a perfect scenario for Mo to mess up on.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Marco Polo

Agreed. It also came out today that Harper isn't "enamored" with the city of Philadelphia. I doubt he'd want to go to the White Sox since they were a 60 win team. This is turning into a perfect scenario for Mo to mess up on.

I'm kinda hoping that the Cubs do something like trade Schwarber for Archie Bradley or Blake Treinen and then go sign Harper.

My God - could a more thorough de-pantsing of Mozeliak possibly exist?

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I'm kinda hoping that the Cubs do something like trade Schwarber for Archie Bradley or Blake Treinen and then go sign Harper.

My God - could a more thorough de-pantsing of Mozeliak possibly exist?

That wouldn't happen simply because Schwarber doesn't move enough money.

The 3rd tier tax penalty that affects draft position is $246M. From that last I read the Cubs are projected to be around $220 as it stands now. Schwarber only clears roughly $3M, less than Treinen will get and maybe just a little bit more than Bradley will get. Adding Harper into that payroll wouldn't be in the cards.

They have a ton of money coming off the books next year so they could get creative with the first year and make it work but from all indications they dont seem too interested in making it work.