2010 Kansas City Royals Repository thread

[SPchief]

All Royals All The Time!

After consultation with others who peruse the game threads we decided to create this as a repository for all things Royals. Minor league news, AL (ahem) Central (thanks Vonne) news and anything Royals can be found here.

alnorth, me and atleast 5 others will continue the game threads as usual. But if you locate something of interest.. ANYTHING.. deals on apparel, best ways in/out of the stadium, giveaways, great stories from this season or from seasons gone by, rumors, trades, anything.... feel free to post it here.

If a big story breaks, you can still start a thread about it. There is merely an all inclusive thread that will make a easy for us all to keep up with all things Royals.


Welcome! "Grab a Brew... don't cost nuthin"...[spills beer on feet]

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

And you remind me of Arrowhead Hawk...except that you're just as stupid.

I love that you guys are projecting an entire career based off of the enormous sample size of 600 AB over a kid's age 21 and 22 seasons. Get some damn perspective and baseball acumen and return to this thread.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Snider's defense was good last year (look at UZR), and he has a good career minor league OBP. So again, I'm not understanding how or why you're writing this kid off going forward.

The confidence that you two have in projecting a 22 year old baseball player is hilarious to me. When Greinke was 22, he was struggling with a 5.80 ERA and poor peripherals, but I didn't see anybody ever suggesting that he didn't have the potential to become an elite player. Heck, when Roy Halladay was 23, he had a 10.64 ERA and was forced to go back down to the minors and change his delivery. He returned to become the most dominating starters of the 2000s.

But yeah, Snider's .770 OPS season at 22 means he'll never amount to anything!

I don't. But if I'm trying to put myself in the position of a GM trading an elite pitcher, I'm going to be concerned about legitimate red flags.

Could Snider become an "outlier" to the general trend? Of course.

And pitchers don't make apt comparisons to position players, and you know this, but it's interesting that you selected Greinke's second year in the league when he was 22. Why didn't you allude to his rookie year? Oh, probably because he put up a 3.97 ERA with 100 SO and 26 BB and a WHIP of 1.166. 3.8 WAR.

Who could have possibly thought he would have amounted to shit?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

I love that you guys are projecting an entire career based off of the enormous sample size of 600 AB over a kid's age 21 and 22 seasons. Get some damn perspective and baseball acumen and return to this thread.

Son - there is no doubt in my mind that I know more about baseball than you.

Absolutely none.

I'm sorry I'm not busy not sucking off your little strikeout artist. Tell you what - Go ahead and give me a list of guys with his K/BB ratio and his K/9 ratio at 22 years old and show me how many superstars are in there.

I'll wait.

Strikezone judgment is what it is. Very very few players actually develop much in this regard. You'll have your outliers like Jose Reyes, but most kids are who they are by the time they're in their 20s. You may get some improvement in the margins, but Travis Snider isn't going to become a .900 OPS hitter w/ a 150/75 K/BB ratio - not gonna happen. As a consequence of his low BB total, his OBP will be entirely AVG driven and as a consequence of his high K rate and low contact %, he'll never have an exceptional BA either.

He'll have an OPS based fueled by his slg%, same as many other valuable but limited players in this league. Time and time again history has proven this to be true.

Then again - as a baseball expert, I'm sure you already knew that.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

And pitchers don't make apt comparisons to position players, and you know this, but it's interesting that you selected Greinke second year in the league when he was 22. Why didn't you allude to his rookie year? Oh, probably because he put up a 3.97 ERA with 100 SO and 26 BB and a WHIP of 1.166.

The point was that projecting what a guy is going to do for the rest of his career at the young age of 22 (Grienke) or 23 (Halladay) after slight struggles is nearly impossible to do. There are so many ways a career can play out.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

The point was that projecting what a guy is going to do for the rest of his career at the young age of 22 (Grienke) or 23 (Halladay) after slight struggles is nearly impossible to do. There are so many ways a career can play out.

That's all well and good. No one has a crystal ball, but there is enough evidence to make informed judgments (guesses, projections!!). ****, we can't just throw a dart.

Though I'm not putting that past Dayton Moore.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Son - there is no doubt in my mind that I know more about baseball than you.

Absolutely none.

I've read your posts before. You, like Hamas, have a very over-inflated opinion of yourself in most areas. And no, on the basis of what I've read in the past, I can assure you that you don't know more about baseball then me.

I'm sorry I'm not busy not sucking off your little strikeout artist. Tell you what - Go ahead and give me a list of guys with his K/BB ratio and his K/9 ratio at 22 years old and show me how many superstars are in there.

I'm surprised that this guy slipped your mind considering the season he just had.

Josh Hamilton MILB line: .292/.340/.472, 83 BB, 227 K, 1132 AB
Travis Snider's MILB line: .302/.376/.530, 170 BB, 401 K, 1412 AB

Hamilton's K/BB in the minors was considerably worse than Snider's, and he's continued to have a poor one in the majors. Or does Josh Hamilton not count as an elite player in your mind? Was that MVP year he just had a mirage?

You may get some improvement in the margins, but Travis Snider isn't going to become a .900 OPS hitter w/ a 150/75 K/BB ratio - not gonna happen. As a consequence of his low BB total, his OBP will be entirely AVG driven and as a consequence of his high K rate and low contact %, he'll never have an exceptional BA either.

Josh Hamilton MLB career line: .311/.371/.544, 164 BB, 365 K

But yeah, it could never happen!

Again, stop pretending like you can project a guy's career based on his mediocre K/BB at the age of 22. You'll only come out looking like a fool.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

That's all well and good. No one has a crystal ball, but there is enough evidence to make informed judgments (guesses, projections!!). ****, we can't just throw a dart.

Though I'm not putting that past Dayton Moore.

A dartboard of Atlanta Braves castoffs, maybe.

[DeezNutz]

If Snider did more blow, he might have a chance.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

I've read your posts before. You, like Hamas, have a very over-inflated opinion of yourself in most areas. And no, on the basis of what I've read in the past, I can assure you that you don't know more about baseball then me.




I'm surprised that this guy slipped your mind considering the season he just had.

Josh Hamilton MILB line: .292/.340/.472, 83 BB, 227 K, 1132 AB
Travis Snider's MILB line: .302/.376/.530, 170 BB, 401 K, 1412 AB

Hamilton's K/BB in the minors was considerably worse than Snider's, and he's continued to have a poor one in the majors. Or does Josh Hamilton not count as an elite player in your mind? Was that MVP year he just had a mirage?




Josh Hamilton MLB career line: .311/.371/.544, 164 BB, 365 K

But yeah, it could never happen!

Again, stop pretending like you can project a guy's career based on his mediocre K/BB at the age of 22. You'll only come out looking like a fool.

And Hamilton's OBP is primarily AVG driven - is it not?

And his K rate is much lower than Snider's, is it not? And his contact rate is higher as well.

In other words - he's capable of hitting for a high average, thus allowing him to post stellar OPS numbers despite the fact he doesn't walk often.

Again - it's not just K/BB, it's the K/BB combined with the woeful K/AB.

I went over this once already.

That's okay, though. We can let it play out. I'm not even sure Travis Snider will ever be as good as Adam Lind, but you just keep on thinking he's your next superstar.

[KC_Connection]

Another example of a player who developed significant plate discipline since he was in the minors and his early major league seasons:
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/playe...se-Utley.shtml

But yeah, Snider will never become an elite hitter.

[Bowser]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

If Snider did more blow, he might have a chance.

That applies to pretty much everyone, no?

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

And Hamilton's OBP is primarily AVG driven - is it not?

And his K rate is much lower than Snider's, is it not? And his contact rate is higher as well.

In other words - he's capable of hitting for a high average, thus allowing him to post stellar OPS numbers despite the fact he doesn't walk often.

Again - it's not just K/BB, it's the K/BB combined with the woeful K/AB.

I went over this once already.

You told me, definitively, that Travis Snider would never become an elite hitter because of his K/BB ratio in his age 19-22 years. I found a guy with a worse K/BB than Snider in those same years who became an elite major league hitter. Stop ****ing sidestepping, that's the bottomline here.

That's okay, though. We can let it play out. I'm not even sure Travis Snider will ever be as good as Adam Lind, but you just keep on thinking he's your next superstar.

I never said Travis Snider would become anything at all. What I took issue with was somebody writing off a 22 year old baseball player without good reason.

[KC_Connection]

Another example of a guy without great discipline in the minors who became elite:
Matt Holliday MILB line: .276/.353/.427, 261 BB, 441 K

During his age 22 year, he was struggling along at AA.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

You told me, definitively, that Travis Snider would never become an elite hitter because of his K/BB ratio in his age 19-22 years. I found a guy with a worse K/BB than Snider in those same years who became an elite major league hitter. Stop ****ing sidestepping, that's the bottomline here.


I never said Travis Snider would become anything at all. What I took issue with was somebody writing off a 22 year old baseball player without good reason.

Are you just illiterate?

Tell you what - Go ahead and give me a list of guys with his K/BB ratio and his K/9 ratio at 22 years old and show me how many superstars are in there.

Again, it's his K/BB combined with his K/9.

The dude strikes out too damn much and doesn't BB enough to make up for it. So his AVG is low and his OBP won't be high enough to compensate.

I went over this already.

And again - Matt Holliday struck out about 1/2 as often as Snider.

Are you going to keep ignoring this?

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Again, it's his K/BB combined with his K/9.

You're not being at all specific here.

But what kind of strikeout rate can you have, then? You're the expert writing off 22 year olds here. Is there like this set number that a player can't go over?