U.S. Issues Puerto Rico will vote on the statehood question again this year.

alnorth · 11:00 PM

ELECTION NIGHT UPDATE:

Statehood is winning by a very strong margin with 70% reporting.

Will Mitt Romney's Embrace of Puerto Rican Statehood Play in Florida?

Gingrich Promises Puerto Rican Statehood, Cuban Spring at Orlando Event

This is a little-known issue that most people don't know about, but could abruptly surface as a really big deal early next year.

Puerto Rico is currently a commonwealth of the United States, and for the past 113 or so years the US has been trying to get them to decide their island's future (we've asked them, repeatedly, to either ask for independence, or apply to become a state, they are too big to remain a territory forever) We have other little dinky tiny territories of military significance like Guam, but nothing anywhere else close to the population and economy to credibly ask for statehood.

There are many differences between being a commonwealth and being a state, but basically the two big ones are: 1) they have no voting representation in congress and cant vote for president, and 2) They are exempt from paying federal income taxes, though they still pay medicare and social security. Obviously, if you are fine with having no autonomy and not voting, that sounds like a pretty sweet deal, P.R. gets most of the support, federal funds, and benefits of a state, without the federal taxes.

They have voted 3 times in their history on what they want their island to do. The first time "do nothing and remain a commonwealth" won overwhelmingly back in the 60's, but in 1993 a lot of people on the island wanted to apply for statehood, they voted, and statehood just barely lost. (49% stay a commonwealth, 46% apply for statehood, 5% seek independence). They voted again in 1998, and again statehood barely lost, getting 47% of the vote.

This November, 14 years after the last vote, Puerto Rico is going to vote again, and the pro-statehood governor has managed to rig things a little more cleverly this time. They will have 2 questions on the ballot, the 1st one will be "stay a commonwealth or seek a change?" The 2nd question, which becomes effective if change wins, will present 3 options: "seek independence, seek a free association, or apply for statehood". The thinking here is that the few percent of nutty independence-seekers will join the statehood vote to win on question one for change, then the commonwealth people, not wanting independence or a free association, will vote statehood.

If that happens, then sometime in 2013, Puerto Rico will probably formally petition the congress and the president to become the 51st state, and, having seen the people of the island vote to do that, our government will probably have to act. Maybe impose some requirements and a long 8-year or whatever waiting period like Alaska and Hawaii went through, but they wont be able to just flat ignore a request for statehood from a US territory that has more people than 22 other states, and that would be large enough to have at least 4 representatives in the house.

Could be interesting. If you are wondering about politics, they claim to be split. Their governor (who endorsed Romney) is republican, and their elected non-voting member of congress is a democrat.

alnorth · 02-07-2012, 08:46 PM

By the way, the free association option, which probably has no chance of winning, is almost independence but not quite. They would become a sovereign nation, lose a ton of the support and funding we send them now, but enter into agreements closely binding them to the US on trade, defense, etc, which we could cancel at any time and tell them they are on their own. This arrangement would be similar to Micronesia, the Marshall Islands, and Palau. They wont do this, because Puerto Ricans born in the future would then lose their birthright US citizenship, which they highly value.

HonestChieffan · 02-07-2012, 08:54 PM

Why do we want them as a state? Just more welfare

Bo's Pelini · 02-07-2012, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HonestChieffan

Why do we want them as a state? Just more welfare

I find this ironic from the guy who gets government subsidies.

HonestChieffan · 02-07-2012, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo's Pelini

I find this ironic from the guy who gets government subsidies.

I dont.

Bo's Pelini · 02-07-2012, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HonestChieffan

I dont.

Of course you don't you're a typical Republican. Government handouts are bad unless they are for you.

alnorth · 02-07-2012, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HonestChieffan

Why do we want them as a state? Just more welfare

The poor people in PR already get almost everything a poor person in KS can get, and they don't pay federal income taxes for it.

We've also seen what happened to a very poor island in the Pacific when they got statehood, and I don't think PR is as poor as they were.

HonestChieffan · 02-07-2012, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

The poor people in PR already get almost everything a poor person in KS can get, and they don't pay federal income taxes for it.

We've also seen what happened to a very poor island in the Pacific when they got statehood, and I don't think PR is as poor as they were.

PR = Hawaii?

FD · 02-07-2012, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HonestChieffan

Why do we want them as a state? Just more welfare

BucEyedPea · 02-07-2012, 09:41 PM

As a designer I don't like how the stars on the flag will layout. Be weird. I say no to statehood.

La literatura · 02-08-2012, 07:18 AM

It sounds exciting.

blaise · 02-08-2012, 07:31 AM

I would think most people there wouldn't want to be a state. They have their own identity now, I don't think I'd be rushing to just be #51.
I don't know much about Puerto Rico, though.

Direckshun · 02-08-2012, 10:59 AM

Puerto Rico votes this down in droves every time.

Why shouldn't they?

They get all the federal benefits (except voting in American elections) and pay zero federal taxes.

They even vote in both parties' primaries.

alnorth · 02-08-2012, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Puerto Rico votes this down in droves every time.

Why shouldn't they?

They get all the federal benefits (except voting in American elections) and pay zero federal taxes.

They even vote in both parties' primaries.

Uhh, you are wrong. Statehood barely lost by low single digits the last 2 votes.

The primary issue for their dominant party in PR is statehood. Its pretty easy to imagine them voting for it.

**patteeu** · 02-08-2012, 11:09 AM

Is Puerto Rico a slave state or a free state?

02-07-2012, 08:43 PM	Topic Starter
alnorth MVP Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Iowania Casino cash: $12370619	Puerto Rico will vote on the statehood question again this year. ELECTION NIGHT UPDATE: Statehood is winning by a very strong margin with 70% reporting. Will Mitt Romney's Embrace of Puerto Rican Statehood Play in Florida? Gingrich Promises Puerto Rican Statehood, Cuban Spring at Orlando Event This is a little-known issue that most people don't know about, but could abruptly surface as a really big deal early next year. Puerto Rico is currently a commonwealth of the United States, and for the past 113 or so years the US has been trying to get them to decide their island's future (we've asked them, repeatedly, to either ask for independence, or apply to become a state, they are too big to remain a territory forever) We have other little dinky tiny territories of military significance like Guam, but nothing anywhere else close to the population and economy to credibly ask for statehood. There are many differences between being a commonwealth and being a state, but basically the two big ones are: 1) they have no voting representation in congress and cant vote for president, and 2) They are exempt from paying federal income taxes, though they still pay medicare and social security. Obviously, if you are fine with having no autonomy and not voting, that sounds like a pretty sweet deal, P.R. gets most of the support, federal funds, and benefits of a state, without the federal taxes. They have voted 3 times in their history on what they want their island to do. The first time "do nothing and remain a commonwealth" won overwhelmingly back in the 60's, but in 1993 a lot of people on the island wanted to apply for statehood, they voted, and statehood just barely lost. (49% stay a commonwealth, 46% apply for statehood, 5% seek independence). They voted again in 1998, and again statehood barely lost, getting 47% of the vote. This November, 14 years after the last vote, Puerto Rico is going to vote again, and the pro-statehood governor has managed to rig things a little more cleverly this time. They will have 2 questions on the ballot, the 1st one will be "stay a commonwealth or seek a change?" The 2nd question, which becomes effective if change wins, will present 3 options: "seek independence, seek a free association, or apply for statehood". The thinking here is that the few percent of nutty independence-seekers will join the statehood vote to win on question one for change, then the commonwealth people, not wanting independence or a free association, will vote statehood. If that happens, then sometime in 2013, Puerto Rico will probably formally petition the congress and the president to become the 51st state, and, having seen the people of the island vote to do that, our government will probably have to act. Maybe impose some requirements and a long 8-year or whatever waiting period like Alaska and Hawaii went through, but they wont be able to just flat ignore a request for statehood from a US territory that has more people than 22 other states, and that would be large enough to have at least 4 representatives in the house. Could be interesting. If you are wondering about politics, they claim to be split. Their governor (who endorsed Romney) is republican, and their elected non-voting member of congress is a democrat. Last edited by alnorth; 11-06-2012 at 11:00 PM..
Posts: 21,987

02-07-2012, 08:46 PM	#2
alnorth MVP Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Iowania Casino cash: $12370619	By the way, the free association option, which probably has no chance of winning, is almost independence but not quite. They would become a sovereign nation, lose a ton of the support and funding we send them now, but enter into agreements closely binding them to the US on trade, defense, etc, which we could cancel at any time and tell them they are on their own. This arrangement would be similar to Micronesia, the Marshall Islands, and Palau. They wont do this, because Puerto Ricans born in the future would then lose their birthright US citizenship, which they highly value. __________________ <WarMoose> Think about how stupid the average person is. Now realize that half of them are dumber than that. <Chunda> Why half?
Posts: 21,987

02-07-2012, 08:54 PM	#3
HonestChieffan Hoffa called me an SOB Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the Country in MO Casino cash: $1220604	Why do we want them as a state? Just more welfare __________________ "The best time to sell peanuts is when the circus is in town."
Posts: 21,916

02-07-2012, 09:41 PM	#10
BucEyedPea Frazod Loves Hammy Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: None of your business Casino cash: $49098	As a designer I don't like how the stars on the flag will layout. Be weird. I say no to statehood. __________________ "In government, the scum rises to the top."~ Hayek
Posts: 46,600

02-08-2012, 07:18 AM	#11
La literatura MVP Join Date: Nov 2011 Casino cash: $50809	It sounds exciting.
Posts: 7,171

02-08-2012, 07:31 AM	#12
blaise MVP Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Plano, TX Casino cash: $417	I would think most people there wouldn't want to be a state. They have their own identity now, I don't think I'd be rushing to just be #51. I don't know much about Puerto Rico, though.
Posts: 16,734

02-08-2012, 10:59 AM	#13
Direckshun Black for Palestine Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $1166865	Puerto Rico votes this down in droves every time. Why shouldn't they? They get all the federal benefits (except voting in American elections) and pay zero federal taxes. They even vote in both parties' primaries. __________________
Posts: 37,537

02-08-2012, 11:09 AM	#15
patteeu The 23rd Pillar Join Date: Sep 2002 Casino cash: $417295	Is Puerto Rico a slave state or a free state? __________________ Obamacare’s fix for an American health care system that the federal government long ago broke, is to give the federal government far more power over American health care; that its solution to escalating health costs is to mandate greater health benefits (and, hence, higher costs); and that its solution to the pricey overreliance on pre-paid health plans — offered by insurance companies in lieu of real insurance — is to have the government require Americans to buy those pre-paid health plans under penalty of law.
Posts: 67,238

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