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Old 11-04-2012, 03:00 PM   Topic Starter
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Cleveland '95: A Football Story
Has anyone had a chance to catch this show? It is a great story of the original Browns' last year in Cleveland before they moved to Baltimore. I enjoyed the hell out of it.

The first half is really a look at Belichick and the staff he had. That Cleveland team was chock full of NFL royalty. Pioli is fetured somewhat prominitely throughout, and he comes across, quite frankly, as a pretty likeable guy. I can see why Clark went after him so hard, especially considering the pedigree he had before coming to KC.

I highly recommend checking it out, especially if you're a fan of the history of the game and remember this as clearly as I do.

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2012/10...ayer-reactions

http://nflfilms.nfl.com/2012/10/03/c...content_stream
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Old 11-04-2012, 03:02 PM   #2
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We are always joking about Clark moving the team to LA, or some other port. This is a great look at what would most likely happen here if that were ever to happen. I actually felt very sorry for the fans of the Browns.
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Old 11-04-2012, 03:05 PM   #3
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Pioli, as a person, is I am sure a good, likeable guy. I watched this show and also read the book War Room. It's not like he is a disaster as a person.

That said, there is no doubt that the guy is just in over his head as a leader of a football team, and is really horrible in terms of leadership and focus on the right things and relation to employees based on the stuff we've heard coming out of Arrowhead. He just does not belong as a GM of an NFL team. He's fine as the right hand personnel guy of someone else competent calling the shots...
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Old 11-04-2012, 03:09 PM   #4
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Pioli, as a person, is I am sure a good, likeable guy. I watched this show and also read the book War Room. It's not like he is a disaster as a person.

That said, there is no doubt that the guy is just in over his head as a leader of a football team, and is really horrible in terms of leadership and focus on the right things and relation to employees based on the stuff we've heard coming out of Arrowhead. He just does not belong as a GM of an NFL team. He's fine as the right hand personnel guy of someone else competent calling the shots...
Oh, totally agree. I should have disclaimered that this thread is in by no means a defense for Pioli in any way.

I really just like the entirety of the program. Marty had a hell of a staff back in the early 90's, but Belichick's staff completely crushes what Marty had. That look, plus watching Cleveland get its football team ripped away was fascinating. I'm somewhat suprised Art Modell escaped with his health, heh.
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Old 11-04-2012, 03:15 PM   #5
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Marty had a hell of a staff back in the early 90's, but Belichick's staff completely crushes what Marty had. .
Does it? Marty had three future Super Bowl winners. Cowher, Dungy and McCarthy.
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Old 11-04-2012, 03:21 PM   #6
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Does it? Marty had three future Super Bowl winners. Cowher, Dungy and McCarthy.
Yeah, point.

Belichick's staff had more longevity to it compared to Marty's guys. A lot of the guys he had have gone to the front office, most notably Ozzie Newsome. Kirk Ferentz and Nick Saban were on Bill's staff, as well. It's a real list of who's who in football.
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Old 11-04-2012, 03:30 PM   #7
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Does it? Marty had three future Super Bowl winners. Cowher, Dungy and McCarthy.
Plus assistants Al Saunders, Russ Ball (who is now a VP of the Packers), Alex Gibbs who was a big part of the Broncos running attack during the Shanahan years... Herm Edwards was a scout turned assistant. Even Thomas Dimitroff's first NFL job was as a scout for the Chiefs in 93, although it's not like he worked directly for Marty.
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Old 11-04-2012, 03:41 PM   #8
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Pioli, as a person, is I am sure a good, likeable guy.
No he's not.

People inside Arrowhead hate him.

War Room was written by a Pat Way shill.
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Old 11-04-2012, 04:20 PM   #9
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No he's not.

People inside Arrowhead hate him.

War Room was written by a Pat Way shill.
That's where you differentiate between personality as a leader in the workplace and personality as an individual. I've met and socialized with plenty of people who, when you are not working with them or when you are outside of that work environment, they are great guys, or come across as that. But when they get into the work environment, either they have a warped sense of what it takes to succeed or have no idea what they are doing or just let the power get to their head, and act like total asses. Pioli would not have stuck around in the NFL this long or been the hot commodity he was when we got him if he had been a total arsewipe to everyone he had worked with. Clark is very close to the Kraft family and they highly recommended the guy. But once he got here and he got all the power, he obviously had no idea how to run the show. So he created a crappy workplace and a lot of the people who worked or work under him here dislike him for the way he handles himself in the workplace.

I don't really care about his personality. I dislike him because he's obviously proven to be bad at being a general manager...
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Old 11-04-2012, 04:35 PM   #10
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Pioli would not have stuck around in the NFL this long or been the hot commodity he was when we got him if he had been a total arsewipe to everyone he had worked with.
Really?

Worked for Bill Parcells.

EVERYONE from that tree that has failed since Brady are dicks, and incompetent, impotent dicks to boot.

Too much evidence.
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Old 11-04-2012, 03:45 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by DaWolf View Post
Pioli, as a person, is I am sure a good, likeable guy. I watched this show and also read the book War Room. It's not like he is a disaster as a person.

That said, there is no doubt that the guy is just in over his head as a leader of a football team, and is really horrible in terms of leadership and focus on the right things and relation to employees based on the stuff we've heard coming out of Arrowhead. He just does not belong as a GM of an NFL team. He's fine as the right hand personnel guy of someone else competent calling the shots...
He's not a likeable guy. He's a dictator and treats people poorly inside Arrowhead. There will be a ****ing party the day he's gone inside that complex.

Your last sentence is hilarious. "He's fine as a right hand personnel guy as long as someone competent is calling the shots". That's essentially saying he's worthless. I agree with that. Hell, anyone could work in any profession as long as you have someone who knows what they are doing to help you at every turn.
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Old 11-04-2012, 03:25 PM   #12
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Not bad.

A TON of Patriot crap, though.
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Old 11-04-2012, 03:30 PM   #13
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who besides Belicheck on that staff is "NFL Royalty"

a bunch of overrated bums besides BB that have been cashing checks off the Tom Brady train for over a decade now.
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Old 11-04-2012, 03:39 PM   #14
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who besides Belicheck on that staff is "NFL Royalty"

a bunch of overrated bums besides BB that have been cashing checks off the Tom Brady train for over a decade now.
Dimitroff is the only one worth a shit.
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Old 11-04-2012, 03:42 PM   #15
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Dimitroff is the only one worth a shit.
Does Newsome count?
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