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Old 12-13-2012, 08:34 AM   Topic Starter
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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In defense of unions.

The goings on in Michigan have taken some time for me to process, what with a lame duck majority of Michigan Republicans busting the only real leverage unions had in one of the biggest union states in America. There's been a heated debate over it the past couple weeks, albeit not on this forum, and tempers have flown off the handle as fistfights have broken out on the steps of the capital in Lansing.

Makes sense, it's a really heated issue, and I see both sides of it. One one hand you have people whose wellbeing has been supported and improved by unions -- those people are going to be intensely passionate about what happens. On the other hand, you have people who believe unions are unfairly leveraged bully organizations attempting to soak a company's profits dry.

I see both sides of the issue, but I'm pro-union. I see how they are often derided and dismissed on this forum so I think it's time to take at least one post to properly characterize what unions are all about and to flesh out why they are such a positive thing.

There are many different kinds of unions, so I am not offering a defense of any one particular union, but I think all unions benefit from the below arguments:

1. A union is democratic capitalism at work.

Our capitalist society encourages everybody to work hard, earn skills, and maximize those skills for your own personal gain. That harnessing this capacity to improve your life will drive progress in society, spark innovation and improve overall quality of life.

Well, that's what every union under the sun is. A group of people have acquired a set of skills, be it to build something, teach something or serve something, and they've decided to maximize their gain from those skills by banding together and negotiating with those who employ them.

Conservatives typically argue that the wealthy are virtuous, because they are able to find advantages in the market that play to their favor. They often argue in favor of huge bonuses that are frequently untied to any accomplishments for people who run companies, because that's what the free market has designated as their worth. That's exactly what unions are all about. They find an advantage in their market that plays to their favor, and attempt to maximize their benefit.

2. They fight inequality.

Now, whether you like the result or not of those negotiations, as an outside observer, is irrelevent to capitalism. What matters is that a worker should earn his or her leverage and then play it in the market for their advantage. Busting unions is an affirmative action to keep the masses of middle class workers from exploiting the advantages of capitalism, while further enabling the wealthy to benefit. Which brings me to my next point.

Inequality is not inherently bad, but there is an inequality epidemic in this country. We are at a historic point of inequality where, primarily though tax policy, the wealthy retain more and more of their wealth leaving the rest of pie in smaller and smaller slices to be divided up amongst a growing population of middle- and lower-class folks.

Unions were an effective check on this trend for large swaths of society, but they've been systematically busted in about half the country's states in various ways, leaving employees only able to negotiate in small packs or individually -- which, as if I need to tell you, is almost always a negatory position. Busting unions hurts the middle class, and further entrenches more wealth at the top.

3. They are the lone agency for middle class workers.

And that's my next point, really. Even if you dislike unions, you can agree with me on two things:

(a.) The wealthier you are, the better represented you are in terms of lobbying and interest groups. There are any number of interest groups that fight specifically on the behalf of people who have more resources, run businesses, are wealthy. The poor have always been underrepresented, there is no Big Poverty influencing the actions of Washington, DC, or any statehouse for that matter.

If there were ever a Big Middle Class, however, it's unions. That's Point (b.).

(b.) There is no more effective organization specifically geared at representing the interests of middle and lower class workers than unions. Which of course is the real reason why employers, who otherwise would face only nominal opposition in their ability to raise money and influence politics, despise them so much.

Unions are incredibly effective at raising funds and turning out political participation among their members. If they were to be wiped from existence -- what existing organization could possibly take their place?

America is America because of middle class workers. Broader than that: a healthy middle class is critical to any society's ability to thrive. Take unions away, or at least largely defang them, and you risk a political system with hardly any serious support for the most important element of society.
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:38 AM   #2
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:01 AM
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:03 AM   #4
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great propoganda from the union
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:06 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
1. A union is democratic capitalism at work.

Our capitalist society encourages everybody to work hard, earn skills, and maximize those skills for your own personal gain. That harnessing this capacity to improve your life will drive progress in society, spark innovation and improve overall quality of life.

Well, that's what every union under the sun is. A group of people have acquired a set of skills, be it to build something, teach something or serve something, and they've decided to maximize their gain from those skills by banding together and negotiating with those who employ them.

Conservatives typically argue that the wealthy are virtuous, because they are able to find advantages in the market that play to their favor. They often argue in favor of huge bonuses that are frequently untied to any accomplishments for people who run companies, because that's what the free market has designated as their worth. That's exactly what unions are all about. They find an advantage in their market that plays to their favor, and attempt to maximize their benefit.
Legislation like that which was passed in Michigan just puts the "they've decided" back into union membership. People who want to be in unions and take advantage of all these glorious benefits that you perceive are still able to do so.
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:31 AM   #6
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Legislation like that which was passed in Michigan just puts the "they've decided" back into union membership. People who want to be in unions and take advantage of all these glorious benefits that you perceive are still able to do so.
Are you aware of how the free rider problem is a legit back breaker for unions?
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:42 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Are you aware of how the free rider problem is a legit back breaker for unions?
I love the "free rider" label. My wife is a teacher, but she isn't a member of a union. She has no ability to negotiate a higher salary because she has to accept whatever the union negotiates. Basically, she gets paid the same amount as the slapdicks who have no business being in education while my wife is securing technology grants on her own time.

Lucky her, though.
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:43 AM   #8
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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I love the "free rider" label.
So, no, you aren't aware of how the free rider problem is a legit back breaker for unions?
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:50 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
So, no, you aren't aware of how the free rider problem is a legit back breaker for unions?
You know how forcing people to pay is a legit back breaker for allowing people to decide if they want to pay union dues, instead of being forced to?
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:59 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
So, no, you aren't aware of how the free rider problem is a legit back breaker for unions?
I understand why unions feel they have to force everyone to assimilate in much the same way that communism does. I also understand that they have to invent pejoratives for those who don't subscribe to their cause.

Let's suppose my co-workers decide that they want to buy a fish tank for the office. I don't care about fish. I don't want a fish tank, but **** it. If they want one, I'm not going to stand in their way. But let's also suppose they start taking up a collection to buy a tank, fish, supplies, etc. and making a schedule for cleaning it, feeding the fish, and buying food. Am I a freeloader if I object to paying for and maintaining something I don't even want?

I am by your definition. I get all of the "benefits" of working in an office with a fish tank even though these "benefits" have a negative value to me.

Cry all you want about the unworkable business model of unions. It's not my problem.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:15 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
So, no, you aren't aware of how the free rider problem is a legit back breaker for unions?
Good.

Unions had their place but you don't have to look very far to see they do far more harm that good today.
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:54 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
So, no, you aren't aware of how the free rider problem is a legit back breaker for unions?
It really wouldn't be a back breaker if unions offered a tangible benefit to members beyond the 61% 'overhead' costs of union organizations. I think I found your free rider problem though.

AFL-CIO Staff:
Name / Position/ Gross Salary / Benefits and other Compensation / Total compensation
RICHARD TRUMKA PRESIDENT $272,250.00 $21,500.00 $293,750.00
ARLENE HOLT-BAKER EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT $238,975.00 $21,345.00 $260,320.00
ELIZABETH SHULER SECRETARY-TREASURER $238,975.00 $14,142.00 $253,117.00
PAUL LEMMON ASST TO PRES&NATL PROGMGR $193,869.00 $50,971.00 $244,840.00
RICHARD BARCHIESI SPECIAL ASST TO THE PRES $154,830.00 $50,691.00 $205,521.00
JONATHAN HIATT EXEC ASST TO PRESIDENT $172,281.00 $13,274.00 $185,555.00
PENNY SCHANTZ INTL REPRESENTATIVE $145,701.00 $27,859.00 $173,560.00
KIRK BRUNGARD EXECUTIVE ASST TO S/T $161,321.00 $6,917.00 $168,238.00
LYNN RHINEHART GENERAL COUNSEL $162,100.00 $5,240.00 $167,340.00
JANE MCDONALD EXEC ASSISTANT TO THE EVP $161,321.00 $3,580.00 $164,901.00
TIMOTHY MADDOX DEPUTY SCC DIRECTOR $131,565.00 $28,539.00 $160,104.00
GERALD SHEA SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO THE $157,442.00 $2,556.00 $159,998.00
DENISE MITCHELL ASST TO PRES PUBLIC AFFRS $157,442.00 $2,515.00 $159,957.00
ANA AVENDANO ASST TO THE PRES FOR IMM $144,518.00 $13,918.00 $158,436.00
SANDRA FELDER DIRECTOR OF FIELD DEPTS $131,565.00 $21,302.00 $152,867.00
DAMON SILVERS DIRECTOR OF POLICY $134,385.00 $18,061.00 $152,446.00
WILLIAM LURYE ASSOCIATE GENERAL COUNSEL $144,518.00 $7,477.00 $151,995.00
NANCY SCHIFFER ASSOCIATE GENERAL COUNSEL $144,518.00 $7,310.00 $151,828.00
TODD ANDERSON REGIONAL DIR. - MIDWEST $112,760.00 $35,878.00 $148,638.00
DONALD SLAIMAN SENIOR FIELD REP $106,781.00 $41,793.00 $148,574.00
THEA LEE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF $144,518.00 $3,117.00 $147,635.00
TERRY STAPLETON CHIEF BUDGET OFFICER $144,518.00 $2,087.00 $146,605.00
JAMES COPPESS ASSOCIATE GENERAL COUNSEL $144,518.00 $1,287.00 $145,805.00
SUSAN WASHINGTON ASSIST TO DIR OF POLICY $143,540.00 $1,871.00 $145,411.00
EDWARD TYNES SENIOR ORGANIZER $104,937.00 $39,871.00 $144,808.00
AMANDA PACHECO ASST TO THE S/T $141,100.00 $3,137.00 $144,237.00
DAVID ECKSTEIN ASSISTANT DEPUTY DIRECTOR $109,988.00 $33,511.00 $143,499.00
KAREN ACKERMAN DIR. OF POLITICS & FIELD $140,034.00 $2,908.00 $142,942.00
MARY BUNN ORGANIZING DIRECTOR $126,586.00 $15,890.00 $142,476.00
ARTURO MENDOZA FIELD CAMPAIGN DIRECTOR $102,795.00 $35,161.00 $137,956.00
KAREN NUSSBAUM ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT $137,672.00 $0.00 $137,672.00
KENNY JOHNSON REGIONAL DIRECTOR - SOUTH $115,125.00 $22,097.00 $137,222.00
JOHN WELSH DEPUTY BUDGET DIRECTOR $134,044.00 $1,918.00 $135,962.00
WILLIAM SAMUEL LEGISLATION DIRECTOR $131,565.00 $4,078.00 $135,643.00
GASPAR VERDUGO SENIOR ORGANIZER $104,937.00 $30,594.00 $135,531.00
CATHERINE FEINGOLD DIRECTOR OF INTERNATIONAL $120,263.00 $13,833.00 $134,096.00
NANCY MILLS SOLIDARITYCTR INTERIM DIR $131,676.00 $1,636.00 $133,312.00
DAVID KEICHER GOV, ORG & LEAD DEV COORD $106,781.00 $25,569.00 $132,350.00
BARBARA NICCOLIHILTZ SENIOR FIELD REP $107,492.00 $23,154.00 $130,646.00
RONALD BLACKWELL CHIEF ECONOMIST $115,917.00 $14,429.00 $130,346.00
CARLOS CARRILLO SENIOR FIELD REP $106,781.00 $23,200.00 $129,981.00
YAEL FOA SENIOR FIELD REP $101,215.00 $27,886.00 $129,101.00
JOHN KISER SENIOR FIELD REP $107,492.00 $21,092.00 $128,584.00
RAMON BECERRA SENIOR FIELD REP $101,952.00 $26,505.00 $128,457.00
NAOMI WALKER DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR CONGR $122,263.00 $6,190.00 $128,453.00
KATHLEEN CASAVANT DIR GOV ORGAN & LDR DEVEL $115,125.00 $13,168.00 $128,293.00
KATIE GJERTSON SENIOR FIELD REP $108,399.00 $18,537.00 $126,936.00
ANGELIA WADE ASSOCIATE GENERAL COUNSEL $122,100.00 $4,645.00 $126,745.00
DANIEL PEDROTTY DIR. OFFICE OF INVESTMENT $120,263.00 $6,447.00 $126,710.00
MICHAEL CAVANAUGH DEPUTY DIR. OF FIELD DEPT $123,345.00 $3,297.00 $126,642.00
MICHAEL PODHORZER DIRECTOR OF POLITCAL $124,767.00 $1,647.00 $126,414.00
JOSEPH HOLLAND SENIOR FIELD REP $106,604.00 $19,526.00 $126,130.00
ROSALYN PELLES CIVIL RIGHTS DIRECTOR $120,263.00 $5,779.00 $126,042.00
RAQUEL MURILLO SENIOR ORGANIZER $101,952.00 $23,533.00 $125,485.00
GORDON PAVY DIR. OF COLLECTIVE BARG $120,263.00 $4,673.00 $124,936.00
JUSTIN MCBRIDE SENIOR ORGANIZER $86,374.00 $38,518.00 $124,892.00
WILLIAM BASHAM SENIOR ORGANIZER $104,937.00 $19,555.00 $124,492.00
WILLIAM PASTREICH ORGANIZING COORD/CAMP DIR $88,276.00 $36,038.00 $124,314.00
JAMES SNOW REGIONAL DIRECTOR - NE $108,504.00 $15,634.00 $124,138.00
MARGARET SEMINARIO DIR. OF SAFETY & HEALTH $120,263.00 $3,608.00 $123,871.00
DONNA JABLONSKI DEPUTY DIR. PUBLICATIONS $120,263.00 $3,295.00 $123,558.00
JAMES EVANS V@W LEAD ORGANIZER $104,937.00 $17,943.00 $122,880.00
DAVID CARPIO NATL EDUCATION TRAINER $108,935.00 $13,364.00 $122,299.00
MARY THEURER REGIONAL CAMPAIGN COORDIN $100,997.00 $20,835.00 $121,832.00
CATHY HOWELL ASSISTANT DIRECTOR $110,770.00 $10,894.00 $121,664.00
ROBERT BAUGH INDUSTRIAL UNIONS COORDIN $115,125.00 $6,379.00 $121,504.00
SHARI CANNON CONTROLLER $120,263.00 $1,174.00 $121,437.00
CAROL EDELSON SENIOR ORGANIZER TRAINER $91,364.00 $29,937.00 $121,301.00
TIMOTHY GRAY ADMINIS DIRECTOR $120,263.00 $821.00 $121,084.00
STEPHEN WORREY CHIEF ENGINEER $120,348.00 $240.00 $120,588.00
PATRICK SCOTT DEPUTY DIR. - ORGANIZING $98,109.00 $22,087.00 $120,196.00
BRENDA MOON SENIOR FIELD REP $106,781.00 $13,322.00 $120,103.00
JOSEPH ALFENITO JR DIR. OF INFO. TECHNOLOGY $116,307.00 $3,072.00 $119,379.00
CECELIE COUNTS LEGISLATIVE REP $118,101.00 $1,041.00 $119,142.00
FEDERICO AZCARATE DIR VOICE@WORK CAMP $112,100.00 $6,860.00 $118,960.00
THOMAS TROTTER LEGISLATIVE REP $115,426.00 $3,074.00 $118,500.00
RICHARD CASTOR SYSTMS ANLYST-ELECT COMM $114,717.00 $3,408.00 $118,125.00
SELWYN CARTER REGIONAL CAMPAIGN COORDIN $105,554.00 $12,222.00 $117,776.00
RICHARD WOMACK STATE AND LOCAL COORDINAT $97,098.00 $20,522.00 $117,620.00
EDWARD FEIGEN STRATEGIC CAMPAIGN COORDI $115,426.00 $2,056.00 $117,482.00
MINWEN LO ORACLE/UNIX SYSTEMS ANALY $112,874.00 $4,524.00 $117,398.00
JANET SCHAFFER REGIONAL CAMPAIGN COORDIN $105,696.00 $11,573.00 $117,269.00
MARK ZOBRISKY FACILITIES MANAGER $115,125.00 $2,003.00 $117,128.00
JAMES LOWE GOV, ORG & LEAD DEV COORD $105,086.00 $11,971.00 $117,057.00
JEFFREY VOGT ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR $111,981.00 $4,907.00 $116,888.00
KELLY ROSS DEPUTY DIRECTOR $115,125.00 $1,728.00 $116,853.00
ROBERT MCGARRAH NORTHEAST CAPITAL STEWARD $112,874.00 $3,845.00 $116,719.00
SAMANTHA CONNOLLY DIR. OF HUMAN RESOURCES $115,125.00 $1,502.00 $116,627.00
MICHAEL NOONAN STRATEGIC PLAN & TECH DIR $115,426.00 $1,071.00 $116,497.00
PATRICIA SWEENEY DIR OF MEETINGS & TRAVEL $115,125.00 $1,363.00 $116,488.00
BYRON CHARLTON LEGISLATIVE REP $114,881.00 $1,541.00 $116,422.00
TERESE BOUEY ASSISTANT DIRECTOR FOR CO $115,125.00 $1,169.00 $116,294.00
SARAH MCKENZIE DIRECTOR OF THE OI $109,677.00 $6,478.00 $116,155.00
ELIZABETH LEVIE V@W STATE & LOCAL POLICY $104,937.00 $10,792.00 $115,729.00
SCOTT REYNOLDS STATE & LOCAL COORDINATOR $113,916.00 $863.00 $114,779.00
BRANDON REES ASSISTANT TO THE DIRECTOR $109,988.00 $4,738.00 $114,726.00
EDWIN ACOSTA JR NAT'L WORKER CENTER COORD $111,070.00 $3,566.00 $114,636.00
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FRED MCKENZIE SENIOR ORGANIZER $93,139.00 $18,427.00 $111,566.00
DANIEL MARSCHALL LEGIS. SPECIAL-WORKFORCE $109,320.00 $2,191.00 $111,511.00
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MARY MAYNARD SENIOR POLITICAL FIELD RE $100,123.00 $9,601.00 $109,724.00
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DON MANNING SENIOR FIELD REP $102,113.00 $7,238.00 $109,351.00
ANTHONY MARSALLO SENIOR ORGANIZER TRAINER $94,552.00 $14,714.00 $109,266.00
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PATRICK OMEARA CORPORATE FINANCE SPECIAL $103,651.00 $1,466.00 $105,117.00
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MONIKA GREENHOW WEB EDITORIAL PROJECT MGR $94,552.00 $9.00 $94,561.00
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COREY WILSON SENIOR TECHNICAL SUPPORT $91,474.00 $2,666.00 $94,140.00
WALTER FERREYRA SENIOR TECHNICAL SUPPORT $86,755.00 $5,808.00 $92,563.00
JENNIFER HERNANDEZ REGIONAL CAMPAIGN COORD $84,699.00 $7,765.00 $92,464.00
COURTNEY PECQUEX SPEC ASST-POL OPERATIONS $83,213.00 $8,959.00 $92,172.00
DAVID DYER ASSISTANT TO CONTROLLER $91,493.00 $496.00 $91,989.00
LIZABETH LOMONACO ASSISTANT TO CONTROLLER $91,493.00 $15.00 $91,508.00
TIFFANY HEATH WRITER/RESEARCHER $91,364.00 $0.00 $91,364.00
NORMA ITZ ADMINISTRATIVE SECRETARY $90,182.00 $1,108.00 $91,290.00
KIMBERLY FARRELL FINANCE & REPORTING COORD $91,083.00 $0.00 $91,083.00
JENNIFER KAUFFMAN FIELD COMMUNICATIONS COOR $87,821.00 $2,460.00 $90,281.00
DANIELLE HATCHETT WEB SPECIALIST $89,274.00 $919.00 $90,193.00
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JAMES GILBERT DIR OF VETERAN'S COUNCIL $87,100.00 $1,515.00 $88,615.00
VANNA OUK KHEAV LEAD CATERING & COOK/SRVR $87,286.00 $588.00 $87,874.00
CHRISTINE CAFASSO BROADCAST MANAGER $86,434.00 $1,381.00 $87,815.00
WILLIAM MOUNTJOY DIR OF INFORMATION TECH $85,466.00 $2,063.00 $87,529.00
PATRICIA LLERAS SCHEDULING DIRECTOR $85,682.00 $911.00 $86,593.00
ANDREA DIBITETTO LEGISLATIVE REP $82,166.00 $4,422.00 $86,588.00
KATHLEEN SMITH SPECIAL PROJECTS COORD $84,300.00 $1,754.00 $86,054.00
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MORGAN MILLER SENIOR WRITER/RESEARCHER $82,840.00 $834.00 $83,674.00
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TAMRA HAMMETT ADMINISTRATIVE SECRETARY $78,344.00 $821.00 $79,165.00
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PAUL ROLLINS DRIVER/GENERAL ASSISTANT $77,473.00 $1,157.00 $78,630.00
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KIM MERCER ADMINISTRATIVE SECRETARY $77,171.00 $833.00 $78,004.00
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JANET CONNER SENIOR FIELD REP $58,293.00 $18,846.00 $77,139.00
PATRICIA BEYRANVAND ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT $77,047.00 $0.00 $77,047.00
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RITA FLYNN PENSION/BNFTS SPECIALIST $76,698.00 $0.00 $76,698.00
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CHARLES SOMMERKAMP MACHINE LEAD PERSON $76,053.00 $183.00 $76,236.00
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MARCUS MEDLEY STATE & LOCAL FEDERATION $74,269.00 $1,357.00 $75,626.00
MITZI WITHROW WEB PROGRAMMER $74,551.00 $781.00 $75,332.00
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KRISTIN COCKERILLE HR GENERALIST $74,416.00 $0.00 $74,416.00
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CAROL DAVIS ADMINISTRATIVE SECRETARY $74,269.00 $0.00 $74,269.00
KARA ROLLINS IT OFFICE ADMINISTRATOR $74,070.00 $93.00 $74,163.00
PAUL GORDON SPEECHWRITER $73,823.00 $0.00 $73,823.00
WILBURN DUNCAN SPECIAL ASST TO THE PRES $73,447.00 $0.00 $73,447.00
TAMMY MCDANIEL OFFICE ADMINISTRATOR $73,092.00 $350.00 $73,442.00
ROSS HYMAN LEAD RESEARCHER $71,357.00 $2,050.00 $73,407.00
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LANITA HALL PC SPECIALIST IV $72,128.00 $459.00 $72,587.00
SUSAN POLOUSKI ORGANIZER $72,360.00 $0.00 $72,360.00
LISA ROBBINS ADMINISTRATIVE SECRETARY $71,346.00 $502.00 $71,848.00
LORENZO DAVIN LEAD MACHINE OPERATOR $71,779.00 $0.00 $71,779.00
OLIVER WHITNEY MEM MOB POLITICAL STAFF $70,561.00 $1,209.00 $71,770.00
JAQUELINE KOMAR PC SPECIALIST IV $68,370.00 $3,375.00 $71,745.00
JOHN GOLTZ WEB ASSISTANT $71,619.00 $0.00 $71,619.00
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MICHAEL ROBERTS ORGANIZER $71,269.00 $0.00 $71,269.00
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IMMANUEL HERRMANN ONLINE MOBILIZATION COORD $64,637.00 $950.00 $65,587.00
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:33 AM   #13
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Are you aware of how the free rider problem is a legit back breaker for unions?

Pretty bad for the economy on a grander scale. Ponder that
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:51 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Are you aware of how the free rider problem is a legit back breaker for unions?
I'm aware that giving workers a choice about whether or not to buy into the union reduces the power of the union. I don't think that changes anything though. Your argument had a huge flaw in that you claimed that union membership was voluntary when in reality, in non right to work states, it's coerced.
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Old 12-13-2012, 04:47 PM   #15
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I'm aware that giving workers a choice about whether or not to buy into the union reduces the power of the union. I don't think that changes anything though. Your argument had a huge flaw in that you claimed that union membership was voluntary when in reality, in non right to work states, it's coerced.
It's actually incentivized, but whatever.

You didn't answer my question. Do you understand how the free loader problem breaks the back of a union's ability to negotiate?
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