BRC's propsed gun control legislation

[BigRedChief]

I'm a known Obama supporter on here. I also have a long standing belief that gun control legislation usually doesn't work and besides...and this is not a small thing in the discussion..........the constitution is clear, the right to keep and bear arms should not be infringed. Thats why even though I don't own guns or hunt that I've been a strong supporter of the 2nd amendment. The constitution is clear.

I understand that the constitution is also very clear on free speech but we restrict free speech in some circumstances (libel, yelling fire etc.). Thats the test that I've always used in evaluating any gun control legislation. If we allow and support the real ugly and reprehensible parts of free speech such as the Nazi's marching in a Jewish neighborhood then the Democrats must do the same with allowing gun owners that freedom guaranteed under the Constitution.

The Republicans have to be open to some limitations on gun control along the same lines as the limits we put on free speech.

The compromise:

1. Forbid the mentally ill to own guns of any kind.
2. Forbid those who have been found guilty of violence against fellow citizens from owning guns.
3. Make illegal the purchase and ownership of armor piercing bullets.
4. Make illegal any ammunition clips greater than 10 rounds. (Exception could be in place for gun ranges)
5. Make laws that punish gun owners if their own registered guns are used to commit crimes.
6. Closing the gun show loophole.

#1 and #2 are easy. No one should be against those proposals.
#3 There is no need reason for an individual citizen to own armor piercing bullets.
#4 This is the key. The Ft. Hood, Va. tech, Gabby Giffords shooter were all stopped when their ammo clips ran out and they stop to reload. We can limit the body count if they have to stop to reload a clip even if it takes only 3-5 seconds.
#5 Gun owners should already be securing their firearms so that kids, mentally ill, suicidal people don't have access to their guns. This would have prevented Shady Hook.
#6 You buy a gun at your local shop they perform a background check but buy at a gun show they don't? Thats idiotic. If there is a background check, it applies to gun shows.



What got left off the table:

• Assault weapons ban. It was already in effect for 10 years. It didn't lower crime. It doesn't meet the first amendment Nazi's marching test. The constitution is about the rights to own guns, not how many bullets that gun can fire.
• Mental illness legislation. A different discussion.

[BucEyedPea]

I think we have some of those.

Futhermore, Connecticut had some of the toughest gun control laws in this country with a ban on assault weapons.
It didn't work, in this case, did it?

It will take smart technology to prevent arms from getting into the hands of non-owners.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea

I think we have some of those.

I was trying to list a totality of how far I was willing to go in restricting a constitutionally guaranteed right.

[BucEyedPea]

Ok

[Bambi]

What about the purchasing at gun shows with no back ground check whatsoever?

That didn't make this list?

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Wickedson

What about the purchasing at gun shows with no back ground check whatsoever?

That didn't make this list?

I was assuming this was to be the law of the land. There would be no gun show loophole. But, I'll add it to the compromise. It definitely needs to happen. It's a stupid loophole.

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by Wickedson

What about the purchasing at gun shows with no back ground check whatsoever?

That didn't make this list?

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

I was assuming this was to be the law of the land. There would be no gun show loophole. But, I'll add it to the compromise. It definitely needs to happen. It's a stupid loophole.

Good call. This absolutely must become law of the land.

[HonestChieffan]

Originally Posted by Wickedson

What about the purchasing at gun shows with no back ground check whatsoever?

That didn't make this list?

1) If you are a gun dealer selling at a gun show you have to do background checks now.
2) Only private treaty sale from one individual to another is not done with a background check.
3) Private treaty sales take place everyday away from a GunShow so in essence there is no such thing as a gun show loophole.

[Bambi]

Originally Posted by HonestChieffan

1) If you are a gun dealer selling at a gun show you have to do background checks now.
2) Only private treaty sale from one individual to another is not done with a background check.
3) Private treaty sales take place everyday away from a GunShow so in essence there is no such thing as a gun show loophole.

So every purchase at a gun show is done with a full background check?

I'm confused because I've been hearing much different through multiple media outlets.

[HonestChieffan]

Originally Posted by Wickedson

So every purchase at a gun show is done with a full background check?

I'm confused because I've been hearing much different through multiple media outlets.

Every gun sold by a FFL dealer at a gun show goes through the exact process as if you went to his store and bought it

There are individuals selling guns to individuals and no those are not run through a check no different than if you bought a gun from me.

[banyon]

Originally Posted by HonestChieffan

Every gun sold by a FFL dealer at a gun show goes through the exact process as if you went to his store and bought it

There are individuals selling guns to individuals and no those are not run through a check no different than if you bought a gun from me.

Everything you have said in this thread with respect to gun shows matches my experience as well. I would add a couple of things. First the vast majority of tables I see are FFL tables. The private tables are usually labelled with a handmade piece of posterboard and typically have a smaller, more used selection.

While I agree that the private sale aspect is just a semantic argument since they can indeed step out in the parking lot and effectuate the same transaction.

But BrC has a point in this thread. If people don't want to recognize the political tide on this thing, then they may wind up with a lot worse solutions. Gun owners need to be a part of this, because people like Radar and us can help point out what will be effective and what won't.

Like this private transfer issue. Why not require registration of those? We do it to title cars. I know I've had to wait 20 mins sometimes at an FFL, but in the grand scheme of things. its really not that big of a deal.

Like microstamping also from a crime control standard.

The NRA has had a tin ear on this thing so far. It's ridiculous to try to deflect the issue to a mental health issue while simultaneously not retracting your decades-long opposition to background checks which would stop some of those same mentally ill from making purchases.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Wickedson

So every purchase at a gun show is done with a full background check?

I'm confused because I've been hearing much different through multiple media outlets.

Yeah... that's a shocker...

[kcpasco]

Number 1 is a no brainer
Number 2 you would have to define more.
Numbers 3 4 5 and 6 is a definite no from me.

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by kcpasco

Number 1 is a no brainer
Number 2 you would have to define more.
Numbers 3 4 5 and 6 is a definite no from me.

No background checks at gun shows?

You're saying no background checks for something like 40% of gun purchases?

[HonestChieffan]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

No background checks at gun shows?

You're saying no background checks for something like 40% of gun purchases?

Ive been to a ton of gun shows. There is no way to know that number you ****ing moron. First, who would know how many were sold total at a show on a given day. That is not tracked. Second, no one is aware of a private sale except for the two people involved. This is the sort of bullshit that ruins your credibility. Make up any number you like.