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View Poll Results: Is default on our debt unconstitutional?
Yes 5 45.45%
No 5 45.45%
I'm not a constitutional lawyer 1 9.09%
Put me down for the gAZ option 0 0%
Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-06-2013, 08:40 PM   Topic Starter
BigRedChief BigRedChief is online now
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Is a default on our debts a violation of the consitution?

We pay our debts. It is mandated in the constitution. Congress authorized and spent the money. We have to pay it back. Thats my and our debtors belief.

14th Amendment Section 4:
The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; butall such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Poll question:
For Congress to default on our debts that they authorized is a violation on the constitution is it not?
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:45 PM   #2
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That clearly refers to paying soldiers/people who serve this country. So, no.
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:58 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC native View Post
That clearly refers to paying soldiers/people who serve this country. So, no.
You interpret the constitution? You a constitutional lawyer? Or just a regular joe opinion?
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:02 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
You interpret the constitution? You a constitutional lawyer? Or just a regular joe opinion?
Regular joe opinion.
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:02 PM
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:32 PM   #6
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brc, there's arguments both ways...

some argue that the language includes all public debt, since pensions and bounties for civil war are "included" rather than being the sole kind of public debt...

others argue that in the context of the amendment itself, it clearly refers to civil war era debts and by implication not public debt in general...

i think the constitution has grown a great deal at the supreme court and original intent is a lesser consideration in adjudicating constitutional rights...

imo, the president should seriously consider invoking the 14th amendment and tell congress to shove the debt ceiling...
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:52 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
brc, there's arguments both ways...

some argue that the language includes all public debt, since pensions and bounties for civil war are "included" rather than being the sole kind of public debt...

others argue that in the context of the amendment itself, it clearly refers to civil war era debts and by implication not public debt in general...

i think the constitution has grown a great deal at the supreme court and original intent is a lesser consideration in adjudicating constitutional rights...

imo, the president should seriously consider invoking the 14th amendment and tell congress to shove the debt ceiling...

The debt ceiling is a limit on how much the treasury is authorized by Congress to borrow, not a limit on how much current debt will be repaid.

The 14th Amendment states that debts will be repaid (be it Civil War era or all debts), not that the Congress is somehow obligated to incur additional debt. The idea that the President could 'invoke' the 14th Amendment to require more borrowing is non-nonsensical.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:13 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by trndobrd View Post
The debt ceiling is a limit on how much the treasury is authorized by Congress to borrow, not a limit on how much current debt will be repaid.

The 14th Amendment states that debts will be repaid (be it Civil War era or all debts), not that the Congress is somehow obligated to incur additional debt. The idea that the President could 'invoke' the 14th Amendment to require more borrowing is non-nonsensical.
non-nonsensical? that's pretty bad...

now that you mention it, it is a strange idea isn't it?

i've been reading too much of bucpea lately...
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:46 PM   #9
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So add an Amendment to cancel that line first. Simple. Problem over.
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:49 PM   #10
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And... this question is asked as if ...

...we follow the Constitution already anyways.

I say the tax and spend clause applies only to the items enumerated in the Constitution...anything else shouldn't even be spent.

...but since we don't follow it, when we add our Amendment it should stipulate this should be the case.
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Old 01-06-2013, 10:29 PM   #11
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Since Congress no longer controls the money... the Scam Federal Reserve Bank System does... it makes that amendment moot, IMO.
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Old 01-06-2013, 10:35 PM   #12
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Since Congress no longer controls the money... the Scam Federal Reserve Bank System does... it makes that amendment moot, IMO.
A very good point, imo. When there's fraud, there's no contract for everyone else. Works for me here.
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:54 PM   #13
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Since Congress won't pass real budgets, why not just pass a law saying we'll increase the debt limit by the amount needed to service the debt. No more chance of default.

Of course we all know it would never happen, lest the politicians have an "issue" to posture around.
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:40 AM   #14
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If the ceiling isn't raised we won't default. We easily have enough revenue to cover our debt service.

What we won't be able to do is borrow more, which means we will be forced to cut spending.

But default isn't an option and this argument is silly and just a democrat scare tactic term.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:18 PM   #15
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If the ceiling isn't raised we won't default. We easily have enough revenue to cover our debt service.

What we won't be able to do is borrow more, which means we will be forced to cut spending.

But default isn't an option and this argument is silly and just a democrat scare tactic term.
Default is an option—a wonderful one. A bucket of cold water to wake up the American ovine herd.
It's politicians, mainstream economists, and the media tell us that a U.S. government debt default would be disastrous. The malinvestment that has caused our crisis in the first place would be corrected and it would force a philosophic shift in the way Americans think about the role of government. That's the bucket of cold water that's needed.

Default has been used by many governments including state govts in the US. We're doing it anyway by debasing the currency.
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