Paralyzed woman loses first Irish right-to-die case

[FishingRod]

By Sarah O'Connor | Reuters – 1 hr 33 mins ago
DUBLIN (Reuters) - An Irish woman terminally ill with multiple sclerosis lost her battle for the lawful right to die in the first case of its kind to be brought in Ireland, Dublin's High Court said on Thursday.
Marie Fleming, a 59-year-old former university lecturer who is completely paralyzed, made an impassioned plea last month to establish the right of her partner of 18 years to help her die, an act that could currently see him jailed in mainly Roman Catholic Ireland.
A 'right to die' debate has played out through recent high-profile court cases in neighboring Britain, where three people all failed in bids to win legal assistance to die. Assisted suicide is only permitted in four European countries: Belgium; Luxembourg, the Netherlands and Switzerland.
Judge Nicholas Kearns said Fleming was the most remarkable witness any member of the court had encountered and acknowledged that her life has been "rendered miserable" after being "ravaged by an insidious disease".
However he said it would be impossible to tailor legislation governing assisted suicide on an individual basis and doing so would be harmful to the public interest in protecting the most vulnerable members of society.
"There are no words to express the difficulty we had in arriving at this decision," Kearns said, reading a summary of the 121-page judgment.
"Yet the fact remains that if this court were to unravel a thread of this law by even the most limited constitutional adjudication in her favor, it would - or at least might - open a Pandora's box which would be impossible to close."
"VERY SADDENED"
Suicide was decriminalized in Ireland in 1993, but the ban on helping someone to commit suicide remains, with a jail sentence of up to 14 years.
Kearns said he felt sure the state, which agreed to pay all legal costs, would exercise its discretion in a humane and sensitive fashion in deciding whether to prosecute if Fleming were to be assisted in taking her own life.
The mother of two adult children had told the court in a composed manner last month how her life had become totally undignified and too painful to bear, and said she had planned every detail, including funeral arrangements.
Her partner hugged and kissed her after the judgment was handed out and, reading a statement on her behalf outside the court, her solicitor said Fleming greatly appreciated the enormous support she had received from members of the public.
"Obviously Marie is very disappointed and saddened at today's outcome, and feels it would be inappropriate at the present time to discuss any specific legal aspects of the case having regard to the likelihood of an appeal," solicitor Bernadette Parte said.
A recent poll found that large majorities of west Europeans favor the legalization of assisted suicide.
As well as in the four European countries, assisted suicide is also legal in the U.S. states of Oregon and Washington.
The issue of amending the Irish constitution has also been highlighted recently following the death of a woman who was refused an abortion of her dying fetus, re-igniting a debate that has divided the country for decades.
(Reporting by Sarah O'Connor; Writing by Padraic Halpin; Editing by Louise Ireland and Jason Webb)

[FishingRod]

Anyone that has ever had an elderly and sick parent knows how tough something like is to deal with but, if it were me, I would want to be able to make my own decision. If I was not competent to do so, I would want my have my wife and kids make that decision for me. I guess that shows I’m a irresponsible for not having my wishes in writing.

[cosmo20002]

Originally Posted by FishingRod

Anyone that has ever had an elderly and sick parent knows how tough something like is to deal with but, if it were me, I would want to be able to make my own decision. If I was not competent to do so, I would want my have my wife and kids make that decision for me. I guess that shows I’m a irresponsible for not having my wishes in writing.

Sounds reasonable. Better yet would be a special session of Congress and a meddling R party passing legislation just for you.
/Terry Schiavo

[FishingRod]

Originally Posted by cosmo20002

Sounds reasonable. Better yet would be a special session of Congress and a meddling R party passing legislation just for you.
/Terry Schiavo

Schiavo,

Man it has been a while... Wasn’t the short story that the husband wanted to put her down and the parents couldn’t let go? Then the usual political stupidity ensued.

[La literatura]

Originally Posted by FishingRod

Schiavo,

Man it has been a while... Wasn’t the short story that the husband wanted to put her down and the parents couldn’t let go? Then the usual political stupidity ensued.

That was it.

[BucEyedPea]

Originally Posted by FishingRod

Anyone that has ever had an elderly and sick parent knows how tough something like is to deal with but, if it were me, I would want to be able to make my own decision. If I was not competent to do so, I would want my have my wife and kids make that decision for me. I guess that shows I’m a irresponsible for not having my wishes in writing.

No it means you have no problem making your wife and kids murderers.

[frazod]

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea

No it means you have no problem making your wife and kids murderers.

Have you ever watched a loved one waste away to nothing in a nursing home? It's horrible. My grandmother died in a nursing home, and the last three years she was alive she didn't know anything or anybody. Spent her days babbling to a doll and shitting herself. Smothering her with a pillow would have been a kindness.

I'm convinced that the only reason keeping these lifeless shells alive is the norm is how much money the heathcare industry makes off prolonging their (so called) lives.

[BucEyedPea]

Originally Posted by frazod

Have you ever watched a loved one waste away to nothing in a nursing home? It's horrible.

Yes, my mother—just not in a nursing home. I just don't believe any person has a right to take another life and we only kill in self-defense not because it's convenient or for quality of life reasons. That's the Useless Eaters argument.

I'm convinced that the only reason keeping these lifeless shells alive is the norm is how much money the heathcare industry makes off prolonging their (so called) lives.

Well, I do not support continued medical care prolonging their life beyond the natural process of dying—( aside from food and water if they can take it in). That's another argument.

I just think it's dangerous to advocate actively taking the life or another or getting another to do it—for any reason beyond defense. That's what a right to die is. Not a right for someone else to kill them.

It's gotten so bad in Holland, that some people won't check into hospitals because the doctors decide and they pull the plug. What will it be next? Infanticide because there's something wrong with them. That's the same useless eaters argument again and it's dangerous for the rest of us. Think it through....like when someone may want to off someone but the can use as an excuse that the person wanted them to kill them to put them out of the pain or misery. We don't kill people as if they animals.

Ireland is a Catholic country so they don't believe any person has this right as well.

[The_Doctor10]

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea

Yes, my mother—just not in a nursing home. I just don't believe any person has a right to take another life and we only kill in self-defense not because it's convenient or for quality of life reasons. That's the Useless Eaters argument.


Well, I do not support continued medical care prolonging their life beyond the natural process of dying—( aside from food and water if they can take it in). That's another argument.

I just think it's dangerous to advocate actively taking the life or another or getting another to do it—for any reason beyond defense. That's what a right to die is. Not a right for someone else to kill them.

It's gotten so bad in Holland, that some people won't check into hospitals because the doctors decide and they pull the plug. What will it be next? Infanticide because there's something wrong with them. That's the same useless eaters argument again and it's dangerous for the rest of us. Think it through....like when someone may want to off someone but the can use as an excuse that the person wanted them to kill them to put them out of the pain or misery. We don't kill people as if they animals.

Ireland is a Catholic country so they don't believe any person has this right as well.

No, it's the same one. You're fine with denying people life saving (or prolonging) care but god forbid they would like to be hooked up to an iv of morphine and slip into the night....

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by frazod

Have you ever watched a loved one waste away to nothing in a nursing home? It's horrible. My grandmother died in a nursing home, and the last three years she was alive she didn't know anything or anybody. Spent her days babbling to a doll and shitting herself. Smothering her with a pillow would have been a kindness.

I'm convinced that the only reason keeping these lifeless shells alive is the norm is how much money the heathcare industry makes off prolonging their (so called) lives.

That doesn't always happed. I spent several years in my teens helping my dad and other congregants perform Wednesday evening church services at a retirement center. And while wheeling them in was often alarming in their ailments and difficulties, they absolutely came to life at the ceremony. 90 and 100 year olds singing hymns with gusto and passion, often so deaf that have no idea how out of tune they are.

[FishingRod]

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea

No it means you have no problem making your wife and kids murderers.

I find your take on this a little surprising. You typically are against the Government meddling in our personal lives and don’t seem to be a fan of Making people do what is best for them whether they like it or not. In many states it is perfectly legal to kill a person for entering your home uninvited even just to safeguard your TV. I really can’t imagine anything less the governments business than if I were to decide my quality of life (for whatever reason I want) is such that I would prefer to no longer endure it.

[BucEyedPea]

Originally Posted by FishingRod

I find your take on this a little surprising. You typically are against the Government meddling in our personal lives and don’t seem to be a fan of Making people do what is best for them whether they like it or not.

Then you missed my pro-life my abortion arguments. I believe the first reason governments are formed is to protect human life and that this is inviolate. Self-defense, personal or collectively, as I have stated here but you seem to be ignoring are the only valid reasons for taking the life of another. This is the proper role of govt. I never claimed to be anarchist or for no govt—just limited govt. We have the right to "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness" in that exact order. Life is protected first and foremost by govt. <--- for KChiefer too.

In many states it is perfectly legal to kill a person for entering your home uninvited even just to safeguard your TV. I really can’t imagine anything less the governments business than if I were to decide my quality of life (for whatever reason I want) is such that I would prefer to no longer endure it.

That is self defense. Helping in a suicide makes you murderer. It is not self-defense. If a person themselves do it, and succeed then the point is moot isn't it? The state can't do anything. Otherwise, it's usually a call for help.

[FishingRod]

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea

Then you missed my pro-life my abortion arguments. I believe the first reason governments are formed is to protect human life and that this is inviolate. Self-defense, personal or collectively, as I have stated here but you seem to be ignoring are the only valid reasons for taking the life of another. This is the proper role of govt. I never claimed to be anarchist or for no govt—just limited govt. We have the right to "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness" in that exact order. Life is protected first and foremost by govt. <--- for KChiefer too.



That is self defense. Helping in a suicide makes you murderer. It is not self-defense. If a person themselves do it, and succeed then the point is moot isn't it? The state can't do anything. Otherwise, it's usually a call for help.

Well more often than not we are on the same page this is just not one of those instances. What you see as murder I see as an act of mercy and simply being humane. We couldn’t be further apart on this one. While I feel strongly about this issue I see no chance in either changing the others mind so we will just have to agree to disagree and not waste one another’s time.

I would say using deadly force to defend ones property while legal in many places probably wouldn’t meet your criteria for a deadly response. I’m not entirely comfortable with it myself but, would have a very difficult time as juror voting to convict a homeowner for shooting an intruder. The burglar would need to present one hell of a case.

[frazod]

If only we could live in a world where we treat terminally ill or hopelessly infirmed persons as well as we do our pets.

[FishingRod]

Originally Posted by frazod

If only we could live in a world where we treat terminally ill or hopelessly infirmed persons as well as we do our pets.

Rep to that sir.