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Old 01-30-2013, 02:22 PM   Topic Starter
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Myths and Truths about Libertarianism

"Libertarianism is the fastest growing political creed in America today. Before judging and evaluating libertarianism, it is vitally important to find out precisely what that doctrine is, and, more particularly, what it is not. It is especially important to clear up a number of misconceptions about libertarianism that are held by most people, and particularly by conservatives. In this essay I shall enumerate and critically analyze the most common myths that are held about libertarianism. When these are cleared away, people will then be able to discuss libertarianism free of egregious myths and misconceptions, and to deal with it as it should be on its very own merits or demerits." ~ Murray N. Rothbard. a founder of modern libertarianism


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Old 01-30-2013, 02:23 PM   #2
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Murray Rothbard famously said we can tell a real libertarian, anarchist or minarchist, from other orientations by this test: do you hate the state?

Beltway Libertarianism
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“The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the legislature.” ~ James Madison, Father of the Constitution

“We do not believe in aggressive or preventive war. Such war is the weapon of dictators, not of free democratic countries like the United States.”~ Truman, Sept 1, 1950
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:46 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Murray Rothbard famously said we can tell a real libertarian, anarchist or minarchist, from other orientations by this test: do you hate the state?

Beltway Libertarianism
I don't know if I would go so far as to say I hate the State. I have a begrudging, disrespectful acknowledgement of the necessity for it.
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:56 PM   #4
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I don't know if I would go so far as to say I hate the State. I have a begrudging, disrespectful acknowledgement of the necessity for it.
I saw a story a couple weeks ago about the rise of proposals for planned "libertarian" communities. Glenn Beck was behind one of these proposed communities. I guess it would be some libertarian utopia where you could act as libertarian as you want. So, to ensure the libertarian-ness of the communities, there are all these rules and regulations so they can ensure the libertarian purity.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:03 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
I saw a story a couple weeks ago about the rise of proposals for planned "libertarian" communities. Glenn Beck was behind one of these proposed communities. I guess it would be some libertarian utopia where you could act as libertarian as you want. So, to ensure the libertarian-ness of the communities, there are all these rules and regulations so they can ensure the libertarian purity.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:09 PM   #6
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Beck is continously mocked for calling himself a libertarian by the Rothbardians. He's a joke to them.
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:57 PM   #7
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I don't know if I would go so far as to say I hate the State. I have a begrudging, disrespectful acknowledgement of the necessity for it.
Yeah, but where do you draw the line on it, is the question? Because that statement is what paleo-conservatives believe too. A paleo is a limited govt person, but based on the Constitution. It supports local values of people. They just don't go as far as a libertarian. So there are libertarian centralizers who do like to use the state. Men like Randy Barnett and Roger Pilon.

Most of the guys over at Lew's are really true libertarians. The often mock who they consider false libertarians. That's why it says: "Anti-state, anti-war and pro-market." That is right libertarianism.

I couldn't find the other Rothbard article on it which I thought was better.
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“We do not believe in aggressive or preventive war. Such war is the weapon of dictators, not of free democratic countries like the United States.”~ Truman, Sept 1, 1950
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:08 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Yeah, but where do you draw the line on it, is the question? Because that statement is what paleo-conservatives believe too. A paleo is a limited govt person, but based on the Constitution. It supports local values of people. They just don't go as far as a libertarian. So there are libertarian centralizers who do like to use the state. Men like Randy Barnett and Roger Pilon.

Most of the guys over at Lew's are really true libertarians. The often mock who they consider false libertarians. That's why it says: "Anti-state, anti-war and pro-market." That is right libertarianism.

I couldn't find the other Rothbard article on it which I thought was better.
I can't even tell you the disappointment. I really can't.

But what a tease--get us all jacked up on Murray Rothbard--the FOUNDER of modern libertarianism--- and his "famous" quotes, and then you tell us there an even better article out there.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:10 PM   #9
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Yeah, but where do you draw the line on it, is the question?
I draw the line at only those things that are necessary for our society to function. That means that I'm not always going to get what I want. I am always going to think that the government is too intrusive, and I'm always going to think that the law is too overbearing.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:14 PM   #10
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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I draw the line at only those things that are necessary for our society to function. That means that I'm not always going to get what I want. I am always going to think that the government is too intrusive, and I'm always going to think that the law is too overbearing.
Well, that wouldn't be their line. No one agrees on that line. Libertarians believe in courts for enforcing contracts, govt prosecuting fraud and protection of life. I know at least that. Some will support civil rights and could still be considered libertarian enough, but some don't. Some are pro-life; some pro-choice and I think either of those can fit into the tent because that comes down to whether or not you believe it's another human life/person who has a right to be free from being harmed in an act of aggression.

Oh, and one does not have to believe in Austrian Economics either. There are conservatives that do. In fact I was turned onto it by a man from the religious right. But it fits into that ideology well enough.
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:44 PM   #11
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I don't hate the state but I do tend to think the only people we elect are sociopaths.....

But that's our fault as much as theirs.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:00 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Murray Rothbard famously said we can tell a real libertarian, anarchist or minarchist, from other orientations by this test: do you hate the state?

Beltway Libertarianism
You probably hate Rothbard he supported Bush.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:09 PM   #13
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You probably hate Rothbard he supported Bush.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:03 PM   #14
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"Libertarianism is the fastest growing political creed in America today. Before judging and evaluating libertarianism, it is vitally important to find out precisely what that doctrine is, and, more particularly, what it is not. It is especially important to clear up a number of misconceptions about libertarianism that are held by most people, and particularly by conservatives. In this essay I shall enumerate and critically analyze the most common myths that are held about libertarianism. When these are cleared away, people will then be able to discuss libertarianism free of egregious myths and misconceptions, and to deal with it as it should be on its very own merits or demerits." ~ Murray N. Rothbard. a founder of modern libertarianism


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Its funny but the first name to come mind when I hear libertarian is Marquis de Sade. For me libertarianism means absolute freedom and no interference by the state in your private behaviour. As Marquis de Sade showed it might be enjoyable for you but not so much for other people.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:08 PM   #15
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Its funny but the first name to come mind when I hear libertarian is Marquis de Sade. For me libertarianism means absolute freedom and no interference by the state in your private behaviour. As Marquis de Sade showed it might be enjoyable for you but not so much for other people.
Except that's where libertarians draw the line. The aggression doctrine is the fundamental basis that unites all types of libertarians. Since the state is aggressive force, because it relies on a gun to a person's head to comply or go to jail, they want as little as possible. So they feel that if they're not harming someone else directly, then there should be no govt interference. They consider these victimless crimes. It wouldn't be based on if it's enjoyable for other people though.
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