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Old 02-22-2013, 09:36 AM   Topic Starter
Molitoth Molitoth is offline
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The Exhaustion of the American Teacher

Ran across this article making it's way around facebook.
I thought it was very interesting, especially considering my wife is an elementary teacher. This really hits the nail on the head.
What are your thoughts?

I don't venture into the DC forum too often, sorry if repost.

And the article won't let me Copy/Paste.

http://theeducatorsroom.com/2012/09/...erican-teacher
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:41 AM   #2
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Attempted troll/humor while discussing potential child abuse
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Originally Posted by Bufkin View Post
If it's effective, who are you, me, or anybody else to call it abuse? I worked with a guy back in Moberly who would shove a finger up his son's ass each time he had anything worse than a C on his report card. If he came home with 2 D's and an F, that's 3 fingers (and this was a big dude). Does that sound hideous and disgusting? Absolutely. Did the kid ever get anything worse than a C after this rule was implemented? Not a chance.

I'm not saying it's morally right or wrong, but does it make the child because of it? Think about that for a second.
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Old 02-22-2013, 12:39 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
Let me keep my property tax and hire a private tutor.

The good ones will make bank.

You want to see education improve and teacher salaries do the same, institute a voucher system. The best schools will get the most money and be able to hire/retain the best teachers.

The problem is that the gap in earning power between good teachers and shitty teachers is marginal. Bad teachers make too much money, good teachers may not make enough (in some cases; not in all).

Again, my MIL made about 70K her last year and now she's retired at 55 making 50K for the rest of her life. She had a masters and taught for a long time so she just kept getting raises (even when a bad economy kept most everyone else from getting them). She never faced a corporate grind. She never faced the accountability measures that many of us in the private sector face. She got 3 months/yr off and for the last decade of her career she operated from a lesson plan she had in place for years with only slight modifications.

Teachers just love to bitch when the reality is that the teacher's union does a great deal of them a disservice by protecting the shitty ones and many of them have very little to bitch about as it is.

The majority of teachers make what they should make. Some make too much, some don't make enough.

Welcome to working.
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Old 02-22-2013, 12:41 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
Let me keep my property tax and hire a private tutor.

The good ones will make bank.

You want to see education improve and teacher salaries do the same, institute a voucher system. The best schools will get the most money and be able to hire/retain the best teachers.

The problem is that the gap in earning power between good teachers and shitty teachers is marginal. Bad teachers make too much money, good teachers may not make enough (in some cases; not in all).

Again, my MIL made about 70K her last year and now she's retired at 55 making 50K for the rest of her life. She had a masters and taught for a long time so she just kept getting raises (even when a bad economy kept most everyone else from getting them). She never faced a corporate grind. She never faced the accountability measures that many of us in the private sector face. She got 3 months/yr off and for the last decade of her career she operated from a lesson plan she had in place for years with only slight modifications.

Teachers just love to bitch when the reality is that the teacher's union does a great deal of them a disservice by protecting the shitty ones and many of them have very little to bitch about as it is.

The majority of teachers make what they should make. Some make too much, some don't make enough.

Welcome to working.
There is a lot of truth in the bolded statement. The NEA has not done a lot of good for teachers reputations over the long haul.
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:05 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
Let me keep my property tax and hire a private tutor.

The good ones will make bank.

You want to see education improve and teacher salaries do the same, institute a voucher system. The best schools will get the most money and be able to hire/retain the best teachers.

The problem is that the gap in earning power between good teachers and shitty teachers is marginal. Bad teachers make too much money, good teachers may not make enough (in some cases; not in all).

Again, my MIL made about 70K her last year and now she's retired at 55 making 50K for the rest of her life. She had a masters and taught for a long time so she just kept getting raises (even when a bad economy kept most everyone else from getting them). She never faced a corporate grind. She never faced the accountability measures that many of us in the private sector face. She got 3 months/yr off and for the last decade of her career she operated from a lesson plan she had in place for years with only slight modifications.

Teachers just love to bitch when the reality is that the teacher's union does a great deal of them a disservice by protecting the shitty ones and many of them have very little to bitch about as it is.

The majority of teachers make what they should make. Some make too much, some don't make enough.

Welcome to working.
A voucher system would make schools worse overall. You would have a good few schools and everyone else would get the short end of the stick.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:47 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
Let me keep my property tax and hire a private tutor.

The good ones will make bank.

You want to see education improve and teacher salaries do the same, institute a voucher system. The best schools will get the most money and be able to hire/retain the best teachers.

The problem is that the gap in earning power between good teachers and shitty teachers is marginal. Bad teachers make too much money, good teachers may not make enough (in some cases; not in all).

Again, my MIL made about 70K her last year and now she's retired at 55 making 50K for the rest of her life. She had a masters and taught for a long time so she just kept getting raises (even when a bad economy kept most everyone else from getting them). She never faced a corporate grind. She never faced the accountability measures that many of us in the private sector face. She got 3 months/yr off and for the last decade of her career she operated from a lesson plan she had in place for years with only slight modifications.

Teachers just love to bitch when the reality is that the teacher's union does a great deal of them a disservice by protecting the shitty ones and many of them have very little to bitch about as it is.

The majority of teachers make what they should make. Some make too much, some don't make enough.

Welcome to working.
This.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:43 AM   #7
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Exactly.

We have met the enemy and it is us.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:44 AM   #8
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Of course it's harder to educate and socialize kids in our schools. Education and socialization begins in the home with the parents, as the article points out. Progressivism has destroyed the family with both parents out chasing the buck and no one home. Then mommy is too tired after a hard day's work herself.

Wait, isn't that what public school is for according to the progs in this forum—socializing the child? Can't have it both ways.

But I don't think it's just teachers that are tired—there's other professions too. How about when ambulances line up on 5th Avenue in NY to pick up collapsed art directors in a top design firm after annual report season? Yup! I was told that at a job interview at that very same place. It's a burn out profession too.
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:13 AM   #9
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Studies show that teachers who quit and go into other professions very rarely make more money in their next position. That is a pretty clear indication they are not underpaid. Now, to this article's point: are they overworked? Maybe. I'd like summers off and 2 weeks at Christmas and 1 week at spring break though. Unfortunately my boss doesn't grant it to me
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Old 02-22-2013, 12:28 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
Studies show that teachers who quit and go into other professions very rarely make more money in their next position. That is a pretty clear indication they are not underpaid. Now, to this article's point: are they overworked? Maybe. I'd like summers off and 2 weeks at Christmas and 1 week at spring break though. Unfortunately my boss doesn't grant it to me
i'd love to see your citations.
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:01 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
Studies show that teachers who quit and go into other professions very rarely make more money in their next position. That is a pretty clear indication they are not underpaid. Now, to this article's point: are they overworked? Maybe. I'd like summers off and 2 weeks at Christmas and 1 week at spring break though. Unfortunately my boss doesn't grant it to me
I've been married to a teacher for 27 years and I always laugh at remarks like this; void of any real exposure or appreciation as to what is required of the profession.
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:15 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
Studies show that teachers who quit and go into other professions very rarely make more money in their next position. That is a pretty clear indication they are not underpaid. Now, to this article's point: are they overworked? Maybe. I'd like summers off and 2 weeks at Christmas and 1 week at spring break though. Unfortunately my boss doesn't grant it to me
I've a friend who is a teacher in a eastern metropolitan city and he says " It's the best paid part-time job ever." He has 8 kids too. I've an in-law who was paid $75 for K in Boston in the mid 80's even.
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:15 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I've a friend who is a teacher in a eastern metropolitan city and he says " It's the best paid part-time job ever." He has 8 kids too. I've an in-law who was paid $75 for K in Boston in the mid 80's even.
I totally believe this!
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Old 02-23-2013, 10:07 AM   #14
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I certainly see a lot of poor parenting and believe the Teachers spend more time on misbehaving children than they should have to.
For those of you who are Teachers or are married to one, could you break down a work day in a Teachers life? I have always wondered and admittedly lean towards the "they dont seem to have it that bad" side of things.

My Youngest daughters day starts at 9:05, it ends at 3:40. They have a "late start" day which is difficult to work around for the parents and lots of time off during the school year.

Do the Teachers work 8:30 to 4:00? I would really like to know so I dont make assumptions...
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Old 02-23-2013, 12:26 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by chiefforlife View Post

Do the Teachers work 8:30 to 4:00? I would really like to know so I dont make assumptions...
Do you assume a football coach works two hours a week? How much time do you think it takes to plan and then assess 6 hours of instruction a day? This is especially true for math and literacy where instruction needs to be incredibly fluid (based on the student's individual needs and developmental ability).

Competent teachers, not even great teachers need to work all the time to keep up (including planning and professional development in the summer).
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