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Old 03-05-2013, 09:10 PM   Topic Starter
Fat Elvis Fat Elvis is offline
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Does your perception of wealth distribution accurately reflect reality?

Just curious how close your (both conservatives and liberals) perception of wealth distribution reflects the reality of wealth distribution in the United States. Be honest. If our perceptions about reality are rightly or wrongly skewed one way or another, it helps to clarify why we (both liberals and conservatives) believe some of the things we do.

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Old 03-05-2013, 09:15 PM   #2
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:41 PM   #3
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Our "poor" live better lives than the "middle class" of other nations.

And our "poor" have the benefit of working out of their class, unlike many other nations.

My mom collected food stamps and assisted living while raising 6 kids. She made sure she instilled in us a work ethic and a shame for being on the assistance so we would have a drive to get off of it as soon as possible.

The culture has changed because the mindset has changed. Now the government suggests having food stamp parties to explain the benefits to your neighbors. Now you can get prepared food which costs three to four times as much as grocery foods. Now you are rewarded for taking a handout.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:50 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCWolfman View Post
Our "poor" live better lives than the "middle class" of other nations.

And our "poor" have the benefit of working out of their class, unlike many other nations.

My mom collected food stamps and assisted living while raising 6 kids. She made sure she instilled in us a work ethic and a shame for being on the assistance so we would have a drive to get off of it as soon as possible.

The culture has changed because the mindset has changed. Now the government suggests having food stamp parties to explain the benefits to your neighbors. Now you can get prepared food which costs three to four times as much as grocery foods. Now you are rewarded for taking a handout.
So, your mom on welfare was because she wanted to take care of you. Other peoples' moms on welfare are because they're lazy, greedy bitches.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:03 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
So, your mom on welfare was because she wanted to take care of you. Other peoples' moms on welfare are because they're lazy, greedy bitches.
If that is what you took from the statement, I can see why the liberals are deluded into thinking that self sufficiency being the secret to being happy and successful is a negative thing.

If that is what you are deliberately obfuscating from my statement, then you are just wasting my time.

I never stated thus. I stated it used to be a temporary situation to accept government assistance. People were on unemployment for months, not years. People accepted welfare for a year or two, not generations. When more than 40% of this nation receives some sort of government assistance (more like 70% if you also account for corporate welfare) then there is just too damned much government assistance.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:16 PM   #6
La literatura La literatura is offline
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Originally Posted by KCWolfman View Post
If that is what you took from the statement, I can see why the liberals are deluded into thinking that self sufficiency being the secret to being happy and successful is a negative thing.
I must be ignorant. I don't know why your mom's raw food welfare was help, but some other mom's welfare is a sign of a mindset change because their neighbor told them about it or the food isn't raw. I don't understand why our welfare should be designed to humiliate them out of it.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:18 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
I must be ignorant. I don't know why your mom's raw food welfare was help, but some other mom's welfare is a sign of a mindset change because their neighbor told them about it or the food isn't raw.
Okay
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Old 03-06-2013, 02:41 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by KCWolfman View Post
Our "poor" live better lives than the "middle class" of other nations.

And our "poor" have the benefit of working out of their class, unlike many other nations.
I wonder what "upward mobility" rate in the US now really is. I suspect it's not as encouraging as people think.
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:11 AM   #9
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I wonder what "upward mobility" rate in the US now really is. I suspect it's not as encouraging as people think.
There are plenty of jobs in more high-level or skill positions. Upward mobility is fine for those who already have very good, high-paying jobs.

It isn't for anyone else and there's a lot of reasons for it. Stupid regulations have made navigating an HR system an absolute nightmare --shitty workers are stuck in great jobs because they can't be fired, whereas good workers have to climb mountains to get promoted or earn a raise that isn't a specific % of earnings.

But more than anything, and I've said this before, it has everything to do with greedy executives compensated on today. The private and public sector needs to focus on continual re-training of our work force. If you develop your work force, they develop the agility and mobility to move around to different lines of work. If you don't, they become reliant on one job only.
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:26 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by WoodDraw View Post
I wonder what "upward mobility" rate in the US now really is. I suspect it's not as encouraging as people think.
Source: theatlanticcities .com; "The high Inequality of U.S. Metro Areas Compared to Countries" Oct. 9, 2012

"Income inequality in America has reached levels not seen since the Gilded Age. As Joseph Stiglitz, the Nobel Prize-winning economist, noted in June, “America has the highest level of inequality of any of the advanced countries — and its gap with the rest has been widening."

"The Martin Prosperity Institute's Zara Matheson mapped data for 362 metros (based on an analysis by the institute's Charlotta Mellander). The team used country-level data from the CIA's World Factbook and metro-level data from the U.S. Census Bureau's 2008-2010 American Community Survey. They relied upon the Gini coefficient as their measurement for inequality, which is a numerical rating on a scale from .00 (perfectly equal) to 1.00 (most unequal).

The Gini coefficient for the United States as a whole is .450, about the same as Iran and the Philippines. For comparison’s sake, the Gini coefficient for Sweden, the world’s most-equal country, is .230. Denmark’s is .248, Germany’s is .270 and Canada’s is .321. The most unequal countries in the world have Gini coefficients between .60 to roughly .70. Though none of America’s metros score that high, the picture is still not a pretty one. Most large metros (with over one million people) have inequality levels that are equal to or above the U.S. average.

The Bridgeport-Stamford-Norwalk (.537) metro — which includes not just the gritty factory town that gives it its name, but stately Westport and über-affluent Greenwich — shares a Gini ranking with Thailand (.536). “The richest Thais earn 14.7 times more than the poorest,” said Gwi-Yeop Son, an United Nations Development Programme representative, a few years ago. “The bottom 60 percent of the population's share of the income is only 25 percent.”
The disparity between New York’s (.504) richest and poorest is comparable to what you’d find in Swaziland (.504), a place not generally noted for its economic dynamism or quality of life (its average life expectancy is the lowest in the world).
Los Angeles’s inequality (.485) is the equivalent of the Dominican Republic (.484).
Chicago (.468) is like El Salvador (.469).
Detroit (.457) matches up with the Philippines (.458).
San Francisco's (.475) inequality is similar to Madagascar's (.475).
Dallas (.463) is like Malaysia (.462).
Inequality in Denver (.455) is comparable to Jamaica’s (.455).
Seattle’s Gini (.439) is similar to Nigeria (.437).

On the flip side, the Twin Cities of Minneapolis St. Paul (.436), Greater Washington, D.C. (.435), Las Vegas (.429), Honolulu (.421), Salt Lake City (.417), and several others stand out as having among the lowest levels of inequality, though these levels are in line with China (.415) and Russia (.422).

Just five U.S. metros have inequality levels below .4 — Fairbanks, Alaska (.399); Monroe, Michigan (.398); Appleton (.395) and Sheboygan (.393), Wisconsin; and Ogden-Clearfield, Utah (.389) — values which are still greater than the level of inequality found in India (.368)."
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:43 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCWolfman View Post
Our "poor" live better lives than the "middle class" of other nations.
Good to see you around. You instantly and dramatically improve the quality of discussion around here by leaps and bounds.
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Old 03-06-2013, 03:03 PM   #12
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Good to see you around. You instantly and dramatically improve the quality of discussion around here by leaps and bounds.
LOL - I don't compare to you, but thank you.
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Old 03-06-2013, 05:10 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCWolfman View Post
Our "poor" live better lives than the "middle class" of other nations.

And our "poor" have the benefit of working out of their class, unlike many other nations.

My mom collected food stamps and assisted living while raising 6 kids. She made sure she instilled in us a work ethic and a shame for being on the assistance so we would have a drive to get off of it as soon as possible.

The culture has changed because the mindset has changed. Now the government suggests having food stamp parties to explain the benefits to your neighbors. Now you can get prepared food which costs three to four times as much as grocery foods. Now you are rewarded for taking a handout.
6 kids can be ultra expensive....wonder if your mom knew that or not.

If I was poor, I wouldn't be knocking up my wife/gf. It's kinda common sense.

Now I dont know your situation growing up...maybe the father was deceased when you were at an early age and you're the youngest of the bunch...maybe he was thrown in prison...I dunno. Good for her for instilling a work ethic...it just baffles me why these women have a bunch of kids knowing they have absolutely no way to afford the costs that come with raising children.
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Old 03-06-2013, 05:18 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by CoMoChief View Post
6 kids can be ultra expensive....wonder if your mom knew that or not.

If I was poor, I wouldn't be knocking up my wife/gf. It's kinda common sense.

Now I dont know your situation growing up...maybe the father was deceased when you were at an early age and you're the youngest of the bunch...maybe he was thrown in prison...I dunno. Good for her for instilling a work ethic...it just baffles me why these women have a bunch of kids knowing they have absolutely no way to afford the costs that come with raising children.
Yup, and she had the offer from the State and County to put us in foster homes so she could live an affordable life without responsibility.

I am not going to explain why, it detracts from the intent of the post. The fact is that what was the norm 40 years ago is not today.

Let me give another analogy instead. Hotels used to charge for clean sheets and towels as well as toiletries. A few hotels found if they gave these things away for "free" (actually hiding the cost in other expenses) they got more clientele. Other hotels were forced to follow suit until it was the norm. What was a premium service became an expected minimum standard. The same is happening with entitlements - more and more is expected to be taken care of.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:04 PM   #15
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No, the actual distribution of wealth in the US isn't very far off from what I imagined. What the video doesn't really address is how those wealthy people accumulated that wealth and why the other sections of society didn't. Instead they try to relate wealth to hard work and imply that no one is going to be working X% harder than the people under them. The fact is that you really aren't going to get rich simply by working hard. It takes hard work, commitment, sacrifice and skill. Almost anyone can dig a ditch. Many people can work really hard at it. Does that mean that they should be as wealthy as a man who literally gave up his life to acquire wealth?
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