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Old 10-15-2013, 02:08 PM   Topic Starter
AustinChief AustinChief is offline
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The (unintended) genious of the GOP debt ceiling "plan"

I highly doubt that the GOP planned any of this but I think the current situation has a good chance of working out heavily in their favor IF they accept some minor concessions from the Dems and move on.

Here is why...

If they had simply made this fight about spending and NOT tried to force the Dems to defund or delay Obamacare I honestly think the Dems would have put forth a delay themselves after finding out how far from finished the website truly was. As it stands the GOP's stance has made it impossible for the Dems to enact a delay without giving the GOP a massive "win."

I have stated all along that an Obamacare delay would backfire against the GOP by 1)pushing this massively unpopular issue back past the next election and 2)giving the Dems time to "fix" the system enough to make it more palatable.

The debt ceiling issue and govt shutdown will be long forgotten from the ephemeral public consciousness by the time the next election hits. What little memory remains will be of how the current govt doesn't work and we need to "throw the bums out." That kind of attitude hurts the Dems FAR worse than it does the GOP.

Barring more GOP screwups I honestly think we'll see a 50/50 or 51/49 split after 2014. (Of course 50/50 doesn't help the GOP much)
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Old 10-15-2013, 02:14 PM   #2
mlyonsd mlyonsd is offline
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The GOP needs to make sure they disengage before they partially own Obamacare.
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Old 10-15-2013, 02:15 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
The GOP needs to make sure they disengage before they partially own Obamacare.
There's no chance of that happening. This whole strategy right now is about cementing the idea that the GOP is fighting tooth and nail against Obamacare so that when the premium increases hit, it falls at the feet of one party and one party only.
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Old 10-15-2013, 02:14 PM   #4
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I think it will be more pronounced than you think. What really hasn't registered in the American consciousness right now is that every working person (that means pretty well everyone reading this) is going to be out anywhere from $100 to $300 (in some cases more) per paycheck. People aren't seeing this yet because most haven't renewed their premiums. But you can't take away $100 - $300 from people per paycheck overnight like this without shocking the system.

When this starts to hit, the Republicans will turn up the heat and start promoting their own alternative plan (http://rsc.scalise.house.gov/solutio...-betterway.htm), which is ultimately more palatable to the American tongue. Democrats will be left with little oxygen in the room if they're stuck defending Obamacare.
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Old 10-15-2013, 05:43 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
I think it will be more pronounced than you think. What really hasn't registered in the American consciousness right now is that every working person (that means pretty well everyone reading this) is going to be out anywhere from $100 to $300 (in some cases more) per paycheck. People aren't seeing this yet because most haven't renewed their premiums. But you can't take away $100 - $300 from people per paycheck overnight like this without shocking the system.

When this starts to hit, the Republicans will turn up the heat and start promoting their own alternative plan (http://rsc.scalise.house.gov/solutio...-betterway.htm), which is ultimately more palatable to the American tongue. Democrats will be left with little oxygen in the room if they're stuck defending Obamacare.
Renewed my premium today at the benefits meeting at work. My insurance is going up $8 per month or $2 a paycheck.
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Old 10-15-2013, 02:55 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
I highly doubt that the GOP planned any of this but I think the current situation has a good chance of working out heavily in their favor IF they accept some minor concessions from the Dems and move on.

Here is why...

If they had simply made this fight about spending and NOT tried to force the Dems to defund or delay Obamacare I honestly think the Dems would have put forth a delay themselves after finding out how far from finished the website truly was. As it stands the GOP's stance has made it impossible for the Dems to enact a delay without giving the GOP a massive "win."

I have stated all along that an Obamacare delay would backfire against the GOP by 1)pushing this massively unpopular issue back past the next election and 2)giving the Dems time to "fix" the system enough to make it more palatable.

The debt ceiling issue and govt shutdown will be long forgotten from the ephemeral public consciousness by the time the next election hits. What little memory remains will be of how the current govt doesn't work and we need to "throw the bums out." That kind of attitude hurts the Dems FAR worse than it does the GOP.

Barring more GOP screwups I honestly think we'll see a 50/50 or 51/49 split after 2014. (Of course 50/50 doesn't help the GOP much)
Obama, AKA, cosmo will be along shortly here to tell you how wrong you are.
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Old 10-15-2013, 03:44 PM   #7
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How brainwashed are you guys? Americans deserve everything they get when we default, for becoming brainwashed media puppets. You guys deserve all of this. Fanatic tea party extremist are now considered moderate. You guys will create the world you let the media create in your head. And you deserve it all.
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:00 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Cleudus View Post
How brainwashed are you guys? Americans deserve everything they get when we default, for becoming brainwashed media puppets. You guys deserve all of this. Fanatic tea party extremist are now considered moderate. You guys will create the world you let the media create in your head. And you deserve it all.
Luckily there's people like you that have it all figured out.
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:02 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Cleudus View Post
How brainwashed are you guys? Americans deserve everything they get when we default, for becoming brainwashed media puppets. You guys deserve all of this. Fanatic tea party extremist are now considered moderate. You guys will create the world you let the media create in your head. And you deserve it all.
You failed to mention Iscariot gold...
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:03 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Cleudus View Post
How brainwashed are you guys? Americans deserve everything they get when we default, for becoming brainwashed media puppets. You guys deserve all of this. Fanatic tea party extremist are now considered moderate. You guys will create the world you let the media create in your head. And you deserve it all.
I agree that we deserve everything that comes with default (and I look forward to the time when it happens), but I doubt that we agree on the reasons we deserve it.
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:06 PM   #11
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I agree that we deserve everything that comes with default (and I look forward to the time when it happens), but I doubt that we agree on the reasons we deserve it.
This thinking makes absolutely no sense.
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:30 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Cleudus View Post
How brainwashed are you guys? Americans deserve everything they get when we default, for becoming brainwashed media puppets. You guys deserve all of this. Fanatic tea party extremist are now considered moderate. You guys will create the world you let the media create in your head. And you deserve it all.


Who let you in?
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:00 PM   #13
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We're not going to default. That's ridiculous.

People need to quit saying that. Obama would have to willfully default, and no president would ever do that. Default doesn't happen out of happenstance. The President would have to actually choose to default. The amount of interest payments is a small figure and is under zero threat of not being paid - unless Obama chooses to.

Now welfare, on the other hand... That's not the same as a default, but that's where the cuts will most likely come from. Unless Obama chooses to prioritize it over defense. That's his call.
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:08 PM   #14
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The amount of interest payments is a small figure
Isn't it horrible that $500 billion (or whatever it is now) is considered a small figure. Half a billion dollars just pissed away. Every year.
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:16 PM   #15
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Isn't it horrible that $500 billion (or whatever it is now) is considered a small figure. Half a billion dollars just pissed away. Every year.
I'm sure reaching the ceiling will help with the interest rate. Our credit was dinged the last time the Rs screwed around like this. I wonder much that cost in extra interest.
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