Discussing the 1st rd: why Dee Ford was the best option - Page 3

RunKC · 05-11-2014, 03:08 PM

And here is why. Just rumblings from what we have heard.

Darqueze Dennard CB Michigan State-Nice product, but not better than what Dee Ford could bring.
Dennard is slow and he has short arms. He ran a 4.51 at the combine, which is not what we need. Take a look at Sean Smith and Brandon Flowers. They both ran in that 4.5 range and look at what happened to them. Remember Jacoby Ford owning Flowers a few years ago due to speed? Remember Eric Decker owning Flowers deep at Arrowhead? Remember DeAndre Hopkins owning Sean Smith at Arrowhead on that deep TD?

That's speed. It's not hard to see. Phillip Gaines has all the physical aspects, along with good production. Tackling is not a huge problem IMO. It can be taught, which he's in a great position to learn as the #4 CB for this year.
What can't be taught is....speed.

Marqise Lee WR USC-This guys hands have started to get bad. Real bad. 12% drop rate? I think people are already pissed off enough seeing Donnie Avery drop passes.
As far as pure playmaking ability, do you see Lee as a better playmaker than De'Anthony Thomas? I don't think so. I think they at the least very close, but Thomas has more speed and range due to ST's. He's way better there.

I can totally see why they passed.

Xavier Su'a-Filo G UCLA-Do we even need to talk about this? Was this not the one pick nobody wanted to see? He could have started day 1, which I admit would have been nice.
This could be a testament to how Reid feels about Rishaw Johnson. Why should we not trust Reid and Dorsey here? Schwartz was a great pickup, Parker was, Cooper was, Abdullah was, McGrath was. Did they not earn your trust for a guy like Rishaw Johnson, who coincidentally looked very good in SD?

I do like the Zach Fulton pick later. He's experienced and needs a little work, but in a year or two I feel he's starting over Jeff Allen.

Derek Carr QB Fresno State-I can't get over how pathetic this guys feet are and how awful he was when pressured. He gets scared. He panics. We're going to kick his ass with our pass rush. Did I mention he made a ton of WTF throws?
Alex Smith is the QB for the next 3 years at the very least.

As for Johnny Football,I would have loved him on this team. I'd take him over Dee Ford every day. But Alex Smith is their guy. If they really wanted him they would have got him. Moving up 1 pick would not have cost much.

Jason Verrett CB TCU-He's got playmaking ability, but he is definitely short which is a no-no for Dorsey.
Keep in mind that everybody is copying Seattle's draft strategy of bigger, longer corners except for 2 teams: the Chiefs and Packers. Why? Because they all came from Green Bay.

Jimmie Ward S NIU-The one guy I think we could have taken over Ford who was picked after us. Love what he does, but let's consider something here.

This pass rush is going to be elite next year IMO. That's going to help our DB's out drastically. Also, do we have Jimmie Ward already? Commings was a very good DB in college, but didn't have the footwork to play CB, which makes him excellent at Safety.
He's faster than Ward and just as physical with a long, big body frame (sound familiar?). I can see why they passed. They love what Commings can bring.

Bottomline:I think people love the energy and personality Dee Ford will bring. They like his confidence and swagger as well. This team needs that.

His first step is very "DT-esque". It's fast, just like Von Miller as well. He's got the production. He played fantastic ball against the best teams in the biggest moments.

This move makes so much sense in so many ways. I love Tamba. He's going to be one of my favorite Chiefs defenders of all-time, but let's look at reality. He's 31 this year. Next offseason we gain $9 million dollars by cutting him.
This is what teams like the Steelers do. They realize when their good players are nearing the end and they draft their replacements.

Tamba is going to start slowly declining in 2015 when he's 32. He might get some sacks, but you'll be able to tell. He definitely got tired the last half of the season.

This defense, and pass rush specifically, might be the best we've ever seen as fans next year. The overall amount of capable pass rushers could be better than the 90's, and that says a lot.
I can't wait to see what Dee Ford will do. I don't think 6 or 7 sacks is that big of a stretch considering we're going to play the nickel a ton of the time.

BryanBusby · 05-13-2014, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

He's very similar to Gholston at the same level actually. Sack only rush end. Damn near the same player at the same position on a relatively equally talented team.

Gholston never did much in terms of impact plays other than the sack. Same as Ford.

About the same size, frame, both strong, similar measurables, etc. Both got drafted in the first round based more on their "upside" and physical capabilities versus production in college.

Yeah, I think that the Gholston comparison is totally valid.

Your comparison is bad.

Vernon Gholston was a total body builder that put on football pads and happened to be faster than the big slow Big 10 linemen he went up against every week. The reality when he got to the next level was he was a total ****ing stiff.

Dee Ford is a better technician, isn't close to what Vernon was for size and moves around the football field a hell lot better. He also has a lot better instincts.

Saccopoo · 05-13-2014, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanBusby

Your comparison is bad.

Vernon Gholston was a total body builder that put on football pads and happened to be faster than the big slow Big 10 linemen he went up against every week. The reality when he got to the next level was he was a total ****ing stiff.

Dee Ford is a better technician, isn't close to what Vernon was for size and moves around the football field a hell lot better. He also has a lot better instincts.

BryanBusby · 05-13-2014, 01:30 AM

**RealSNR** · 05-13-2014, 01:32 AM

I remember when Mike Maslowski had 100 billion tackles for the team that one year.

He was such a great player

**RealSNR** · 05-13-2014, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanBusby

ITT: Saccopoo still thinks NFL teams look at a stat line and form up their draft boards off of it. Players from the state of Utah are stacked at the top of boards.

You forgot if the player received all-conference honors or not.

BryanBusby · 05-13-2014, 01:41 AM

Oh yeah forgot that one

Mike Leach QB's are on their way to Canton

RunKC · 05-13-2014, 10:09 AM

Dee Ford is gonna be a pain in the ass for opposing teams this year. He seems to have a hardworking attitude with the swagger and confidence to succeed.

I think this kid developed late in college and could just be getting started. You better believe that Tamba is gonna get this kid right.

Saccopoo · 05-13-2014, 10:51 AM

Jest all you want, but this guy is a major project with some pretty big holes in his game as it stands.

At this point, he's much more Vernon Gholston than he is Derrick Thomas. And if you argue that, you don't know dick.

Dee Ford did not produce at the college level. His 10.5 sacks in 2013 were half of his 20.5 career total. (By comparison, Derrick Thomas had 27 sacks in a single season and 54 for his career.)

You guys keep on drinking the Dorsey Decision Lens Kool-Aid thinking that it was a great pick, but it was a reach.

Personally, I think that not getting a top flight lineman or wide receiver in this draft was a big mistake.

BryanBusby · 05-13-2014, 11:18 AM

I'm not saying Dee Ford is a great pick. I'm just saying that you don't know shit.

RunKC · 05-13-2014, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Jest all you want, but this guy is a major project with some pretty big holes in his game as it stands.

At this point, he's much more Vernon Gholston than he is Derrick Thomas. And if you argue that, you don't know dick.

Dee Ford did not produce at the college level. His 10.5 sacks in 2013 were half of his 20.5 career total. (By comparison, Derrick Thomas had 27 sacks in a single season and 54 for his career.)

You guys keep on drinking the Dorsey Decision Lens Kool-Aid thinking that it was a great pick, but it was a reach.

Personally, I think that not getting a top flight lineman or wide receiver in this draft was a big mistake.

AJ Jenkins and Rishaw Johnson. That's who they're rolling with.

And before you immediately write them off, here's some names to keep in mind.

Geoff Schwartz
Ron Parker
Marcus Cooper
Sean McGrath
Husain Abdullah

All those guys were not perceived as being anywhere near as good as they were for us when Dorsey brought them in. Think on that.

ct · 05-13-2014, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Jest all you want, but this guy is a major project with some pretty big holes in his game as it stands.

At this point, he's much more Vernon Gholston than he is Derrick Thomas. And if you argue that, you don't know dick.

Dee Ford did not produce at the college level. His 10.5 sacks in 2013 were half of his 20.5 career total. (By comparison, Derrick Thomas had 27 sacks in a single season and 54 for his career.)

You guys keep on drinking the Dorsey Decision Lens Kool-Aid thinking that it was a great pick, but it was a reach.

Personally, I think that not getting a top flight lineman or wide receiver in this draft was a big mistake.

I agree with you on WR, but not OLine, we did well in the 6th round and the OLine will still hinge on Fisher, not whatever rookies we were going to draft in the 1st or 3rd round.

And coming back to the big time WR that I also think we'll regret not taking, Marqise Lee aint it. Don't think any of them @23 after Cooks was gone were worth it. I still wish we'd traded back, but stayin put, Ford was the pick and i'm lookin forward to seeing him in your profile.

staylor26 · 05-13-2014, 12:54 PM

Sac are you seriously trying to compare Ford and Gholston?

Gholston was a workout warrior that looked like Tarzan played like Jane. He didn't have the "want to" to make it in The NFL.

Ford has a unique first step, showed up in big games and big moments, had the best performance of any player in the NC game, and has a great work ethic and attitude to succeed.

Hey might be similar in some ways physically but not on the field or their intangibles.

Dunerdr · 05-13-2014, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanBusby

I'm not saying Dee Ford is a great pick. I'm just saying that you don't know shit.

I'm on board with this. If I watched films and produced draft opinions they'd be uneducated or as we locally call it very sac like. There fore I don't.

planetdoc · 05-13-2014, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

At this point, he's much more Vernon Gholston than he is Derrick Thomas.

to be fair, Derrick Thomas had holes in his game too. From what I remember, he was also poor against the run and in coverage.

OldSchool · 05-13-2014, 06:32 PM

Let's try not to compare rookies to Hall of Fame players before they even play a single snap in the NFL.

05-11-2014, 03:08 PM
RunKC Andy Reid Supporter Join Date: Apr 2012 Casino cash: $-1510389	Discussing the 1st rd: why Dee Ford was the best option And here is why. Just rumblings from what we have heard. Darqueze Dennard CB Michigan State-Nice product, but not better than what Dee Ford could bring. Dennard is slow and he has short arms. He ran a 4.51 at the combine, which is not what we need. Take a look at Sean Smith and Brandon Flowers. They both ran in that 4.5 range and look at what happened to them. Remember Jacoby Ford owning Flowers a few years ago due to speed? Remember Eric Decker owning Flowers deep at Arrowhead? Remember DeAndre Hopkins owning Sean Smith at Arrowhead on that deep TD? That's speed. It's not hard to see. Phillip Gaines has all the physical aspects, along with good production. Tackling is not a huge problem IMO. It can be taught, which he's in a great position to learn as the #4 CB for this year. What can't be taught is....speed. Marqise Lee WR USC-This guys hands have started to get bad. Real bad. 12% drop rate? I think people are already pissed off enough seeing Donnie Avery drop passes. As far as pure playmaking ability, do you see Lee as a better playmaker than De'Anthony Thomas? I don't think so. I think they at the least very close, but Thomas has more speed and range due to ST's. He's way better there. I can totally see why they passed. Xavier Su'a-Filo G UCLA-Do we even need to talk about this? Was this not the one pick nobody wanted to see? He could have started day 1, which I admit would have been nice. This could be a testament to how Reid feels about Rishaw Johnson. Why should we not trust Reid and Dorsey here? Schwartz was a great pickup, Parker was, Cooper was, Abdullah was, McGrath was. Did they not earn your trust for a guy like Rishaw Johnson, who coincidentally looked very good in SD? I do like the Zach Fulton pick later. He's experienced and needs a little work, but in a year or two I feel he's starting over Jeff Allen. Derek Carr QB Fresno State-I can't get over how pathetic this guys feet are and how awful he was when pressured. He gets scared. He panics. We're going to kick his ass with our pass rush. Did I mention he made a ton of WTF throws? Alex Smith is the QB for the next 3 years at the very least. As for Johnny Football,I would have loved him on this team. I'd take him over Dee Ford every day. But Alex Smith is their guy. If they really wanted him they would have got him. Moving up 1 pick would not have cost much. Jason Verrett CB TCU-He's got playmaking ability, but he is definitely short which is a no-no for Dorsey. Keep in mind that everybody is copying Seattle's draft strategy of bigger, longer corners except for 2 teams: the Chiefs and Packers. Why? Because they all came from Green Bay. Jimmie Ward S NIU-The one guy I think we could have taken over Ford who was picked after us. Love what he does, but let's consider something here. This pass rush is going to be elite next year IMO. That's going to help our DB's out drastically. Also, do we have Jimmie Ward already? Commings was a very good DB in college, but didn't have the footwork to play CB, which makes him excellent at Safety. He's faster than Ward and just as physical with a long, big body frame (sound familiar?). I can see why they passed. They love what Commings can bring. Bottomline:I think people love the energy and personality Dee Ford will bring. They like his confidence and swagger as well. This team needs that. His first step is very "DT-esque". It's fast, just like Von Miller as well. He's got the production. He played fantastic ball against the best teams in the biggest moments. This move makes so much sense in so many ways. I love Tamba. He's going to be one of my favorite Chiefs defenders of all-time, but let's look at reality. He's 31 this year. Next offseason we gain $9 million dollars by cutting him. This is what teams like the Steelers do. They realize when their good players are nearing the end and they draft their replacements. Tamba is going to start slowly declining in 2015 when he's 32. He might get some sacks, but you'll be able to tell. He definitely got tired the last half of the season. This defense, and pass rush specifically, might be the best we've ever seen as fans next year. The overall amount of capable pass rushers could be better than the 90's, and that says a lot. I can't wait to see what Dee Ford will do. I don't think 6 or 7 sacks is that big of a stretch considering we're going to play the nickel a ton of the time.
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05-13-2014, 01:30 AM	#33
BryanBusby In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2006 Casino cash: $3169900 VARSITY
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05-13-2014, 01:32 AM	#34
RealSNR Special Teams ACE!!! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Where the hell is SNR Casino cash: $-1404792	I remember when Mike Maslowski had 100 billion tackles for the team that one year. He was such a great player
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05-13-2014, 01:41 AM	#36
BryanBusby In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2006 Casino cash: $3169900 VARSITY	Oh yeah forgot that one Mike Leach QB's are on their way to Canton
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05-13-2014, 10:09 AM	#37
RunKC Andy Reid Supporter Join Date: Apr 2012 Casino cash: $-1510389	Dee Ford is gonna be a pain in the ass for opposing teams this year. He seems to have a hardworking attitude with the swagger and confidence to succeed. I think this kid developed late in college and could just be getting started. You better believe that Tamba is gonna get this kid right. __________________ Mike Greenberg@Espngreeny I can’t fathom what it must be like to be a fan of the #Chiefs. Adopt a Chief: Jared Wiley
Posts: 52,128

05-13-2014, 10:51 AM	#38
Saccopoo Kindness in words... Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Zion Casino cash: $10025483	Jest all you want, but this guy is a major project with some pretty big holes in his game as it stands. At this point, he's much more Vernon Gholston than he is Derrick Thomas. And if you argue that, you don't know dick. Dee Ford did not produce at the college level. His 10.5 sacks in 2013 were half of his 20.5 career total. (By comparison, Derrick Thomas had 27 sacks in a single season and 54 for his career.) You guys keep on drinking the Dorsey Decision Lens Kool-Aid thinking that it was a great pick, but it was a reach. Personally, I think that not getting a top flight lineman or wide receiver in this draft was a big mistake.
Posts: 15,450

05-13-2014, 11:18 AM	#39
BryanBusby In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2006 Casino cash: $3169900 VARSITY	I'm not saying Dee Ford is a great pick. I'm just saying that you don't know shit.
Posts: 22,630

05-13-2014, 12:54 PM	#42
staylor26 In Search of a Life Join Date: Oct 2007 Casino cash: $-1990960	Sac are you seriously trying to compare Ford and Gholston? Gholston was a workout warrior that looked like Tarzan played like Jane. He didn't have the "want to" to make it in The NFL. Ford has a unique first step, showed up in big games and big moments, had the best performance of any player in the NC game, and has a great work ethic and attitude to succeed. Hey might be similar in some ways physically but not on the field or their intangibles.
Posts: 52,889

05-13-2014, 06:32 PM	#45
OldSchool MVP Join Date: Sep 2013 Casino cash: $10035212	Let's try not to compare rookies to Hall of Fame players before they even play a single snap in the NFL.
Posts: 12,727