Gaz dips his toe in the Linux pool...

Gaz · 01-16-2006, 09:05 AM

I had been eyeing Linux from afar for quite a while. I was tired of Microsoft crashing and the heart-sinking parade of “flaws” that must be “patched.” I downloaded live CDs of Simply Mepis, Ubuntu and Linspire to give them a test-run. Simply Mepis and Ubuntu were just too different from Windows. They fell outside my confort zone.

Linspire had the right idea: make it look as much like Windows as possible, so the “I don’t care about the code, just gimme something that works” crowd [that would be me] can sit down and use the darn thing. The problem with Linspire is that you have to pay a $50 yearly fee for access to the CNR function. If this is to be my new OS, $50 a year is gonna add up. Not a viable long-term solution at Rancho Gaz. So, I continued to fret and worry about the bazillion holes out there who want to mess with my computer.

Now, I know the Linux geeks are going to tell me how all I need to do is use apt-get or some such to get the software and upgrades I need. The geeks miss the point. I do not want to have to use apt-get. I want to click an icon and have the computer do it for me. I have zero interest in poking around in the guts of my OS.

Then, despite the router, firewall, anti-virus, anti-spyware and all the other precautions I took, the shinwow Trojan got into my box. The computer started hanging up and crashing. I reloaded the OS. Then came the latest rash of “serious flaws” in Windows.

Then came Xandros. The reviews were glowing. It was designed to co-exist with Windows. In fact, it would automatically re-partition my hard drive so I could dual-boot with XP. The modified KDE desktop looked reassuringly familiar. Okay, what did I have to lose but a CD?

I downloaded the OCE edition, burned the ISO image to CD and slapped it in my CD drive. The installation process was painless. It recognized that I had XP and asked if I wanted to wipe XP or co-exist. With no small amount of trepidation, I clicked the button and Xandros took care of the rest. Now THAT’S what I want!

Xandros has modified the KDE desktop to look a lot like Windows. I had no difficulty navigating. Actually, I must confess that Xandros is more intuitive than Windows when it comes to navigation.

Xandros can read from [but not write to] my Windows NFTS partition. So, I still have access to all my tunes, pictures, videos and files. That would make any future transition less traumatic.

The only thing stopping us from dumping Windows entirely is the group of applications we use. Microsoft Office, Outlook, Quicken, Winamp, so forth. Yes, Linux geeks, I have OpenOffice on the machine, but we are comfortable with the MS versions. Crossover Office is loaded as a 30-day trial. If Crossover Office can actually run all our Windows programs [a few of our favorites are not officially supported], then I may be able to kick Windows off my machine.

So far, I am cautiously optimistic that I may be Windows-free in the near future.

xoxo~
Gaz
Total newbie.

SLAG · 01-16-2006, 11:04 AM

Do you have a Link to the Xandros ISO?

Gaz · 01-16-2006, 12:20 PM

http://www.xandros.com/about/downloads.html

The OCE edition limits your CD burner to 2X and there is no official support [although the forums are quite helpful].

The OCE is dowloaded by bittorrent. You can download via HTTP, but it will cost you $10.

The Xandros Network is similar to Linspire's CNR, but is free. You can update your system and install beaucoup applications with a click of a button.

If Xandros really works for us [which means if Crossover Office can run all our indispensible Windows programs], Mrs. Gaz and I will spring for the commercial edition, which uncaps CD burning and includes Crossover Office and a big old printed user's manual.

xoxo~
Gaz
Sneaking into Linux land.

SLAG · 01-16-2006, 12:36 PM

since its open source based shouldnt one be able to unlock the CD Burning By Changing the Source Code?

KC Jones · 01-16-2006, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLAG02

since its open source based shouldnt one be able to unlock the CD Burning By Changing the Source Code?

nyes.

Linux is open source. Linux is a OS Kernel. There are thousands of open source applications made to run on a Linux based OS. However, many people repackage Linux in different ways. This is why there are so many flavors or distributions (distros) of linux. Some of these groups add little proprietary bits. For instance Suse has YaST which is a way of managing the configuration/patches/modules, etc. as well as YOU (YaST Online Upgrade) which the last I heard was proprietary software. Everyone is free to use OpenSuse, YaST, and use YOU servers to get patches, but decompliing and editing YaST is illegal. There are other applications and utilities which are not available under an open license, and if I'm not mistaken Xandros has a few proprietary things themselves.

I was doing some research a while back into finding a good distro for small businesses and Xandros came out on top. Largely because of their goal of replacing windows and supporting critical business applications. My research also led me to the discovery of clark connect and their small business server - http://www.clarkconnect.com/. A very nice competitor to Microsofts Small Business Server 2003.

Gaz · 01-24-2006, 08:54 AM

Well, the Linux experiment is mostly over.

CrossOver Office [the application that runs Windows software on a Linux OS] is just too buggy. Quicken and Outlook both functioned sporadically at best. We uninstalled CX Office and are still debating the future of XandrOS at Rancho Gaz.

For now, we are using XandrOS for surfing and then restarting into Windows for everything else. That is a pain, so I do not expect that to go on much longer. We have an old computer that we use for music [hooked up to the stereo and running Winamp]. I am trying to convince Mrs. Gaz to buy an old laptop for that purpose and re-task the music computer as a dedicated surfing machine running XandrOS. The idea of buying a third computer is not yet floating Mrs. Gaz's boat.

As much as I want to dump Windows, Linux is not ready to be the exclusive Rancho Gaz desktop at this time.

However, I want to reiterate my admiration for XandrOS as a Windows replacement for those of you who do not require Windows applications. Open Office works just as well as Microsoft Office. Thunderbird is not as good as Outlook, IMO, but if all you want is an email application [as opposed to synching a PPC, for example] it is perfectly adequate.

Maybe further on down the road, I can give Windows the heave-ho.

xoxo~
Gaz
Crawling back to Microsoft.

KC Jones · 01-24-2006, 07:35 PM

Good luck Gaz.

I realize you want Quicken, but just in case anyone reading this is in a similar boat but are open to free Quicken alternatives here's an article comparing some of them:

http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=05/10/31/1653227

redfan · 01-24-2006, 09:46 PM

I'm scared to take the steps to become Microsoft (Windows) free.

/Mad as hell, but apparently willing to take it...

Gaz · 01-26-2006, 08:12 AM

Redhed-

I encourage you to download the OCE edition of XandrOS. It is free and you can burn the actual OS as an ISO image on a CD. It is then a complete OS, ready to install [as opposed to the clunky "Live CD" editions of various systems].

While it did not work for us, I was very impressed with the OS. The setup is more intuitive than Windows, IMO, but anyone familiar with Windows will have no difficulty navigating. Installation was a breeze and if not for the not-ready-for-prime-time CrossOver Office issue, I would have dumped XP and switched to XandrOS. All of my negative issues with the test-run were directly due to CrossOver Office’s attempt to run Windows-specific programs.

And if the Quicken alternatives that KC Jones kindly provided for me pan out, I may yet be able to dump Windows. If I do, XandrOS will be my OS.

It is a bit scary to leave the familiarity of Windows behind. All I want from my OS is to be as transparent as possible. I know how to find what I want in Windows. XandrOS was immediately useable [as opposed to Ubuntu and Mepis, for example] to a Windows person. They have gone out of their way to make it a similar to Windows as possible. You and I are the target market for this OS.

xoxo~
Gaz
Really liked XandrOS, but could not get around CrossOver Office.

Gaz · 01-26-2006, 08:15 AM

KC Jones-

Thanks for the link. I forwarded it to Mrs. Gaz. She is Money Grrl at Rancho Gaz, so any changes to our monetary software are her domain.

Thanks for your help.

Someday, I will be free of Windows…

xoxo~
Gaz
Discouraged, but not defeated.

The Rick · 01-26-2006, 09:05 AM

I don't know if cost is an issue for you or not (and if it is, this may not necessarily be the way to go), but I switched to a Mac exactly a year ago and haven't looked back.

I used to run Windows but was always searching for the perfect Linux OS. Ubuntu was the closest I came to finding a viable alternative, but it just wasn't quite right. I had an iPod at the time and through that, discovered Mac OS X at the Apple store.

At the core, Mac OS X is UNIX. It has all of the power, functionality, security, etc. of UNIX. However, the difference is everything is beautiful and it just works. To me, it's like the perfect "Linux OS" that I was looking for.

There are beautiful applications to use. However, since it's UNIX at the core, many things can be done at the command line.

For example, if there's a software patch out, when I log into my Mac it will prompt me through a nice GUI interface to download and install. However, if I'm at work, I can remotely connect to my Mac and kickoff the software update from the command line.

One of my initial fears was that software would be hard to come by. I quickly found that I was wrong. There is a perception that there isn't much software available for the Mac but it isn't true. Maybe with gaming software, but not for everything else. I have not had a problem finding software for anything I need to do. Plus, there are Mac versions of popular software such as Quicken, Microsoft Office, TurboTax, etc.

Before I made the switch, I had heard all of the hype about Macs and the Mac OS and I thought it was just hype. I've now seen that the hype really is valid. No need to worry about viruses or spyware or any of that stuff. Not to say that couldn't change in the future, but for now at least it's not an issue. Everything is just rock solid, everything just works.

The only two limitations I see with a Mac are cost and gaming software. If you're not a computer gamer, then that's not an issue. You can buy a Mac Mini for $499 and use your existing monitor, keyboard, and mouse. Certainly not the cheapest, but I've found that it's worth it so many times over.

Mac Mini - http://www.apple.com/macmini/
Mac OS X - http://www.apple.com/macosx/

Okay, I'll get off my soap box now. Carry on...

SLAG · 01-26-2006, 06:29 PM

I have a K6-2 400mhz with 168meg Of Ram
I am going to test Xandros On it tonight

Simplex3 · 01-26-2006, 10:40 PM

Xandros is nice, but Suse has better support for commercial Unix apps. The Suse config tool is called "YaST" and is basically the Windows Control Panel. There is very, very little you can't do with it (and most of that is stuff you shouldn't be doing). As long as you use KDE as your window manager Windows users should feel right at home.

As for OSX, the core is FreeBSD 3.something. I actually run FreeBSD on all of my servers now, it's amazingly stable. I've never had a FreeBSD box crash on me, not once. Never had an app running on a FreeBSD box crash, not once. It's rock solid. The OSX user interface is also very nice. The price should be coming down soon enough with the move from IBM CPU's to Intel.

KC Jones · 01-27-2006, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Rick

I don't know if cost is an issue for you or not (and if it is, this may not necessarily be the way to go), but I switched to a Mac exactly a year ago and haven't looked back.

I was recently visiting my dad whose a mac user and tried to do a few things for him on his mac. I have to say OS X is great, but it's a much bigger jump from windows than linux. If Gaz is looking for something that smells and acts like windows then OS X isn't it. It's got too much momentum from the Mac world (not that this is a bad thing, just a different UI and such). The one thing I didn't like was the lack of cheap or free software and hardware. I wanted to get him a webcam to video conference with the grandkids, but none of the cheap ones had any mac support noted on the box, so I ended up shelling out major bucks for the isight camera. Then, I came to find out skype which works great for those of us in the family using linux and windows does not have the more recent version with video for mac. If we want to video conference with grandpa, the rest of us all have to install that AIM spyware piece of shit. I tried doing a few other things for him, and everywhere I turned it was 'you can do this, but only if you buy this really expensive thing from apple'. That sucks.

Gaz · 01-27-2006, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simplex3

...There is very, very little you can't do with it (and most of that is stuff you shouldn't be doing)...

At this point that is exactly what I do NOT want. I am not interested in poking around in the guts of the OS. As I get more familiar with linux [provided we can find linux replacements for the critical Windows stuff], I might eventually be intrigued by the command line. Right now, though, it is simply an attractive nuisance and an invitation to disaster. Linspire and XandrOS appear to be perfect distros for an old Windows dog to learn a new linux trick.

I did consider a Mac [I had one at work many years ago and loved it], but it is very pricy. There is no “dipping a toe” in the Mac pool. Even a casual test-run [like we are conducting with linux] racks up beaucoup bucks. Since this activity is due to my paranoia about Windows, I do not see Mrs. Gaz eating the expense of a Mac, particularly since she thinks I am a bit fanatic about Windows [“Sweetheart, you ran a deep scan for viruses an hour ago…give it a rest”].

xoxo~
Gaz
Not ready to give up just yet.

01-16-2006, 09:05 AM
Gaz Defense Homer Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Rancho Gaz Casino cash: $10010793	Gaz dips his toe in the Linux pool... I had been eyeing Linux from afar for quite a while. I was tired of Microsoft crashing and the heart-sinking parade of “flaws” that must be “patched.” I downloaded live CDs of Simply Mepis, Ubuntu and Linspire to give them a test-run. Simply Mepis and Ubuntu were just too different from Windows. They fell outside my confort zone. Linspire had the right idea: make it look as much like Windows as possible, so the “I don’t care about the code, just gimme something that works” crowd [that would be me] can sit down and use the darn thing. The problem with Linspire is that you have to pay a $50 yearly fee for access to the CNR function. If this is to be my new OS, $50 a year is gonna add up. Not a viable long-term solution at Rancho Gaz. So, I continued to fret and worry about the bazillion holes out there who want to mess with my computer. Now, I know the Linux geeks are going to tell me how all I need to do is use apt-get or some such to get the software and upgrades I need. The geeks miss the point. I do not want to have to use apt-get. I want to click an icon and have the computer do it for me. I have zero interest in poking around in the guts of my OS. Then, despite the router, firewall, anti-virus, anti-spyware and all the other precautions I took, the shinwow Trojan got into my box. The computer started hanging up and crashing. I reloaded the OS. Then came the latest rash of “serious flaws” in Windows. Then came Xandros. The reviews were glowing. It was designed to co-exist with Windows. In fact, it would automatically re-partition my hard drive so I could dual-boot with XP. The modified KDE desktop looked reassuringly familiar. Okay, what did I have to lose but a CD? I downloaded the OCE edition, burned the ISO image to CD and slapped it in my CD drive. The installation process was painless. It recognized that I had XP and asked if I wanted to wipe XP or co-exist. With no small amount of trepidation, I clicked the button and Xandros took care of the rest. Now THAT’S what I want! Xandros has modified the KDE desktop to look a lot like Windows. I had no difficulty navigating. Actually, I must confess that Xandros is more intuitive than Windows when it comes to navigation. Xandros can read from [but not write to] my Windows NFTS partition. So, I still have access to all my tunes, pictures, videos and files. That would make any future transition less traumatic. The only thing stopping us from dumping Windows entirely is the group of applications we use. Microsoft Office, Outlook, Quicken, Winamp, so forth. Yes, Linux geeks, I have OpenOffice on the machine, but we are comfortable with the MS versions. Crossover Office is loaded as a 30-day trial. If Crossover Office can actually run all our Windows programs [a few of our favorites are not officially supported], then I may be able to kick Windows off my machine. So far, I am cautiously optimistic that I may be Windows-free in the near future. xoxo~ Gaz Total newbie.
Posts: 5,911

01-16-2006, 11:04 AM	#2
SLAG Superbowl MVP Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: OOOOOOOOOOOOOLATHE Casino cash: $9910252	Do you have a Link to the Xandros ISO? __________________ Ad astra per aspera
Posts: 11,177

01-16-2006, 12:20 PM	#3
Gaz Defense Homer Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Rancho Gaz Casino cash: $10010793	Go get it, y'all... http://www.xandros.com/about/downloads.html The OCE edition limits your CD burner to 2X and there is no official support [although the forums are quite helpful]. The OCE is dowloaded by bittorrent. You can download via HTTP, but it will cost you $10. The Xandros Network is similar to Linspire's CNR, but is free. You can update your system and install beaucoup applications with a click of a button. If Xandros really works for us [which means if Crossover Office can run all our indispensible Windows programs], Mrs. Gaz and I will spring for the commercial edition, which uncaps CD burning and includes Crossover Office and a big old printed user's manual. xoxo~ Gaz Sneaking into Linux land.
Posts: 5,911

01-16-2006, 12:36 PM	#4
SLAG Superbowl MVP Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: OOOOOOOOOOOOOLATHE Casino cash: $9910252	since its open source based shouldnt one be able to unlock the CD Burning By Changing the Source Code? __________________ Ad astra per aspera
Posts: 11,177

01-24-2006, 08:54 AM	#6
Gaz Defense Homer Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Rancho Gaz Casino cash: $10010793	Close, but not quite there yet... Well, the Linux experiment is mostly over. CrossOver Office [the application that runs Windows software on a Linux OS] is just too buggy. Quicken and Outlook both functioned sporadically at best. We uninstalled CX Office and are still debating the future of XandrOS at Rancho Gaz. For now, we are using XandrOS for surfing and then restarting into Windows for everything else. That is a pain, so I do not expect that to go on much longer. We have an old computer that we use for music [hooked up to the stereo and running Winamp]. I am trying to convince Mrs. Gaz to buy an old laptop for that purpose and re-task the music computer as a dedicated surfing machine running XandrOS. The idea of buying a third computer is not yet floating Mrs. Gaz's boat. As much as I want to dump Windows, Linux is not ready to be the exclusive Rancho Gaz desktop at this time. However, I want to reiterate my admiration for XandrOS as a Windows replacement for those of you who do not require Windows applications. Open Office works just as well as Microsoft Office. Thunderbird is not as good as Outlook, IMO, but if all you want is an email application [as opposed to synching a PPC, for example] it is perfectly adequate. Maybe further on down the road, I can give Windows the heave-ho. xoxo~ Gaz Crawling back to Microsoft.
Posts: 5,911

01-24-2006, 07:35 PM	#7
KC Jones Genious Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Colorado Casino cash: $10012761	Good luck Gaz. I realize you want Quicken, but just in case anyone reading this is in a similar boat but are open to free Quicken alternatives here's an article comparing some of them: http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=05/10/31/1653227
Posts: 5,366

01-24-2006, 09:46 PM	#8
redfan I miss John, Willie & Eric Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Burgers & Steak Casino cash: $-1858148	I'm scared to take the steps to become Microsoft (Windows) free. /Mad as hell, but apparently willing to take it... __________________ IV LIV LVII LVIII Len Dawson: SB IV MVP Patrick Mahomes: 2X NFLMVP 3X SBMVP and 3rd member of the B2B SBMVP Club
Posts: 8,216

01-26-2006, 08:12 AM	#9
Gaz Defense Homer Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Rancho Gaz Casino cash: $10010793	I have not ininstalled XandrOS yet... Redhed- I encourage you to download the OCE edition of XandrOS. It is free and you can burn the actual OS as an ISO image on a CD. It is then a complete OS, ready to install [as opposed to the clunky "Live CD" editions of various systems]. While it did not work for us, I was very impressed with the OS. The setup is more intuitive than Windows, IMO, but anyone familiar with Windows will have no difficulty navigating. Installation was a breeze and if not for the not-ready-for-prime-time CrossOver Office issue, I would have dumped XP and switched to XandrOS. All of my negative issues with the test-run were directly due to CrossOver Office’s attempt to run Windows-specific programs. And if the Quicken alternatives that KC Jones kindly provided for me pan out, I may yet be able to dump Windows. If I do, XandrOS will be my OS. It is a bit scary to leave the familiarity of Windows behind. All I want from my OS is to be as transparent as possible. I know how to find what I want in Windows. XandrOS was immediately useable [as opposed to Ubuntu and Mepis, for example] to a Windows person. They have gone out of their way to make it a similar to Windows as possible. You and I are the target market for this OS. xoxo~ Gaz Really liked XandrOS, but could not get around CrossOver Office.
Posts: 5,911

01-26-2006, 08:15 AM	#10
Gaz Defense Homer Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Rancho Gaz Casino cash: $10010793	Kewl... KC Jones- Thanks for the link. I forwarded it to Mrs. Gaz. She is Money Grrl at Rancho Gaz, so any changes to our monetary software are her domain. Thanks for your help. Someday, I will be free of Windows… xoxo~ Gaz Discouraged, but not defeated.
Posts: 5,911

01-26-2006, 09:05 AM	#11
The Rick Veteran Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Milwaukee, WI Casino cash: $6801320	I don't know if cost is an issue for you or not (and if it is, this may not necessarily be the way to go), but I switched to a Mac exactly a year ago and haven't looked back. I used to run Windows but was always searching for the perfect Linux OS. Ubuntu was the closest I came to finding a viable alternative, but it just wasn't quite right. I had an iPod at the time and through that, discovered Mac OS X at the Apple store. At the core, Mac OS X is UNIX. It has all of the power, functionality, security, etc. of UNIX. However, the difference is everything is beautiful and it just works. To me, it's like the perfect "Linux OS" that I was looking for. There are beautiful applications to use. However, since it's UNIX at the core, many things can be done at the command line. For example, if there's a software patch out, when I log into my Mac it will prompt me through a nice GUI interface to download and install. However, if I'm at work, I can remotely connect to my Mac and kickoff the software update from the command line. One of my initial fears was that software would be hard to come by. I quickly found that I was wrong. There is a perception that there isn't much software available for the Mac but it isn't true. Maybe with gaming software, but not for everything else. I have not had a problem finding software for anything I need to do. Plus, there are Mac versions of popular software such as Quicken, Microsoft Office, TurboTax, etc. Before I made the switch, I had heard all of the hype about Macs and the Mac OS and I thought it was just hype. I've now seen that the hype really is valid. No need to worry about viruses or spyware or any of that stuff. Not to say that couldn't change in the future, but for now at least it's not an issue. Everything is just rock solid, everything just works. The only two limitations I see with a Mac are cost and gaming software. If you're not a computer gamer, then that's not an issue. You can buy a Mac Mini for $499 and use your existing monitor, keyboard, and mouse. Certainly not the cheapest, but I've found that it's worth it so many times over. Mac Mini - http://www.apple.com/macmini/ Mac OS X - http://www.apple.com/macosx/ Okay, I'll get off my soap box now. Carry on...
Posts: 2,442

01-26-2006, 06:29 PM	#12
SLAG Superbowl MVP Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: OOOOOOOOOOOOOLATHE Casino cash: $9910252	I have a K6-2 400mhz with 168meg Of Ram I am going to test Xandros On it tonight __________________ Ad astra per aspera
Posts: 11,177

01-26-2006, 10:40 PM	#13
Simplex3 MVP Join Date: Sep 2003 Casino cash: $10004900	Xandros is nice, but Suse has better support for commercial Unix apps. The Suse config tool is called "YaST" and is basically the Windows Control Panel. There is very, very little you can't do with it (and most of that is stuff you shouldn't be doing). As long as you use KDE as your window manager Windows users should feel right at home. As for OSX, the core is FreeBSD 3.something. I actually run FreeBSD on all of my servers now, it's amazingly stable. I've never had a FreeBSD box crash on me, not once. Never had an app running on a FreeBSD box crash, not once. It's rock solid. The OSX user interface is also very nice. The price should be coming down soon enough with the move from IBM CPU's to Intel.
Posts: 28,527