I know everyone on CP hates Cassel.....

[Three7s]

So, after listening to Petro's weekly PMS rant about people unfairly bashing Cassel, I started wondering. What would it take for people to actually.....LIKE Cassel? I don't know if there's a thread on this or not because I'm way too lazy to go through all of the Cassel bashing threads.

FWIW, I don't think Cassel is all that great either, but he can, at least, complete a pass once in awhile, unlike guys like Campbell.

What I think would sway my feelings toward him is to do what he did against the Broncos, only when it REALLY matters. I know it would go against our offensive philosophy, but teams are stacking the box on us so much that it looks like it has to be done.......so how about you guys?

[Brock]

He's playing as well as he possibly can. So the answer is: nothing.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by Three7s

So, after listening to Petro's weekly PMS rant about people unfairly bashing Cassel, I started wondering. What would it take for people to actually.....LIKE Cassel? I don't know if there's a thread on this or not because I'm way too lazy to go through all of the Cassel bashing threads.

FWIW, I don't think Cassel is all that great either, but he can, at least, complete a pass once in awhile, unlike guys like Campbell.

What I think would sway my feelings toward him is to do what he did against the Broncos, only when it REALLY matters. I know it would go against our offensive philosophy, but teams are stacking the box on us so much that it looks like it has to be done.......so how about you guys?

He's still at it, huh? Unlistenable.

[Sully]

I'll need to see;
1) evidence of him being trusted to read a defense
2) him actually reading a defense
3) the ability to avoid pressure, and still complete a pass
4) the ability to step into a pass rush and complete a pass
5) the ability to throw accurately 12-yards +

If I begin to see those five things regularly, I'll begin to turn the corner on him. It wouldn't be the finished product I'd ideally like, but enough to show that he could one day be good enough. I'm rooting for him, but have seen none of these enough to believe he'll ever get there.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Brock

He's playing as well as he possibly can. So the answer is: nothing.

He lacks confidence and courage in the pocket.

That is the root of all his problems.

All his other issues would disappear if he were to simply grow a set.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by tk13

Okay I'm not going to defend the guy but that's lunacy. Even Peyton Manning doesn't have two Super Bowl wins.

cdcox's jury is still out on that guy.

[Brock]

Originally Posted by milkman

He lacks confidence and courage in the pocket.

That is the root of all his problems.

All his other issues would disappear if he were to simply grow a set.

Confidence and courage aren't what keeps him from hitting wide open receivers down the field. He is what he is. He could have balls of steel and he'd still be under/overthrowing guys by 10 yards.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Brock

Confidence and courage aren't what keeps him from hitting wide open receivers down the field. He is what he is. He could have balls of steel and he'd still be under/overthrowing guys by 10 yards.

If he played with confidence and courage, he doesn't have happy feet, he steps into his throws and follows through, and his accuracy issues are no longer issues.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by milkman

He lacks confidence and courage in the pocket.

That is the root of all his problems.

All his other issues would disappear if he were to simply grow a set.

This a criticism I can agree with. I think that's something that a guy can grow out of although it's certainly possible that he never will.

[cdcox]

Here are the things I don't like about Cassel when I watch him play:

1. He doesn't look natural. This sounds arbitrary, but good mechanics and fluid athleticism matter. Trust your eyes. When Cassel makes a good throw, in terms of on target with good zip, he takes a big stride and throws his whole body forward. He looks more like a pitcher with his delivery than a QB. When he scrambles, he doesn't look fluid. He has good speed, but again he is a long strider and always seems to be on the verge of falling down.

2. Poor accuracy. Can you count on him to consistently make a high percentage 3rd down throw for 4 yards? Would you be comfortable with him passing on a critical 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1? If not, you are one dimensional and very easy to defend.

3. Bad touch on short passes. On a short pass it is essential to get the ball to a player so they can run with it. We've all seen the passes that sail over the head of the guy in the flat. Or bounces in front of the player 10 yards away. Or the pass that strings someone out so they get cut in half.

4. Can't progress through his reads. He's a one read QB.

5. Looks at the pass rush instead of down field. Reacts to the pass rush before it gets there.

6. Seldom makes big time throws. His best passes are to receivers that are open and usually toward the middle of the field. Take the TD pass to Bowe against Oakland. It was one of the better throws that we've seen Cassel make. But it wasn't a particularly difficult pass. Bowe was open and the pass was in the middle of the field. Good pass, but it was a routine NFL throw. When I watch the best QBs, they make throws that amaze me. They hit a very tight window. Or they throw a clothesline 30 yard out. In watching other games you see other QBs make throws every week that we've never seen Cassel make.

7. Poor deep ball. It's obvious he just heaves it up there and hopes the ball ends up where the guy can catch it.

8. To quote Solomon Wicotts "When Cassel holds the ball, bad things happen." When Manning holds the ball, or Brady, or even Michael Vick last night, good things generally happen. If you are saying that about your QB, you are not in a good situation. You want someone who can make plays.

9. He doesn't use his mobility to make plays with his arm. If you get him scrambling around, he seldom makes a big play out of it. There have been a couple of exceptions.

10. If he is progressing as an NFL QB, it is very slowly. He isn't on a trajectory that is going to get him to franchise level.

To be fair, here are the things I like about him:

1. He makes relatively few mistakes. A lot of this has to do with coaching and the game plan, but not too many QBs have the temperament to follow through with that as well a Cassel does. He follows instruction well.

2. He is resilient. He can play bad the whole game but he doesn't seem to let that get to him. He can have a good drive after playing like crap the whole game.

[2112]

Maybe it's just me. but when Cassell was good with the Patriots the year Brady was out they didnt use him strictly as a pure drop back passer. there was always a shit load of screens and misdirections and draws out of the shot gun. he's not being used the same way with the Chiefs. he sucked at throwing the ball down the field with the Patriots too. and he had Randy Moss on that team.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by patteeu

This a criticism I can agree with. I think that's something that a guy can grow out of although it's certainly possible that he never will.

The problem is that this is what I've been saying about Cassel since he was with the Patriots.

He hasn't grown in three years.

[stevieray]

Originally Posted by cdcox

4. Can't progress through his reads. He's a one read QB.


6. Seldom makes big time throws. His best passes are to receivers that are open and usually toward the middle of the field. Take the TD pass to Bowe against Oakland. It was one of the better throws that we've seen Cassel make. But it wasn't a particularly difficult pass. Bowe was open and the pass was in the middle of the field. Good pass, but it was a routine NFL throw. When I watch the best QBs, they make throws that amaze me. They hit a very tight window. Or they throw a clothesline 30 yard out. In watching other games you see other QBs make throws every week that we've never seen Cassel make.

.

not true.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by D2112

Maybe it's just me. but when Cassell was good with the Patriots the year Brady was out they didnt use him strictly as a pure drop back passer. there was always a shit load of screens and misdirections and draws out of the shot gun. he's not being used the same way with the Chiefs. he sucked at throwing the ball down the field with the Patriots too. and he had Randy Moss on that team.

I've talked about this a lot in my assesment of Cassel's play after watching all of the Patriot games I could when it became apparent we were going to be going after him.

I think Gailey recognized this, but Haley didn't want to change the philosophy he brought just to hide his QB's weaknesses.

I belieev he thinks the team will be better off in the long term of he is able to develop Cassel into a traditional drop back QB.

Failing that, he'll get another QB.

At the end of the day, he's probably right.

[Deberg_1990]

Originally Posted by milkman

I've talked about this a lot in my assesment of Cassel's play after watching all of the Patriot games I could when it became apparent we were going to be going after him.

I think Gailey recognized this, but Haley didn't want to change the philosophy he brought just to hide his QB's weaknesses.

I belieev he thinks the team will be better off in the long term of he is able to develop Cassel into a traditional drop back QB.

Failing that, he'll get another QB.

At the end of the day, he's probably right.

I know Cassel isnt young, but what do you think his upside in a year or two or 3 if we keep starting him? Ive mentioned it before that i think its probably close to Matt Hasselbeck in Seattle. It took him 3 or 4 years there before he became truly solid and the team began to gel.

[jbwm89]

Originally Posted by cdcox

Here are the things I don't like about Cassel when I watch him play:

2. Poor accuracy. Can you count on him to consistently make a high percentage 3rd down throw for 4 yards? Would you be comfortable with him passing on a critical 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1? If not, you are one dimensional and very easy to defend.



4. Can't progress through his reads. He's a one read QB.

I think the problem with his 3rd down % comes partially from either him being a 1 read quarterback or the play design and the coaching.

He seems to not be able to make the correct decision on who to throw the ball too in short yardage situations more than he struggles to make the throw itself.