Career Advice

[Saul Good]

The last month or so, one of my company's competitors has been trying to recruit me away from my current employer. I'm reasonably happy where I am and will hit 5 years of service on March 1st (which means that I will be fully vested).

The new company kept calling, so I decided that I would meet with them and listen to their pitch. After meeting with HR and the office manager, it's pretty clear that they are going to make me an offer. I told the office manager that it was going to cost them more than they were planning on spending in order to get me to switch. He said that he would pressure them to give me what I wanted, but we didn't get to hard numbers yet.

I'm planning on asking for a 20-30% increase over what I currently make. I think they might agree to 20%. Whatever they offer, I am going to take it to my current employer and ask them to match it when my 5 year review comes up next month. If it's 20%+, I doubt they will match it, but they will probably meet me somewhere in between.

My question is this: How much money should I be willing to leave on the table in order to stay where I am? It's basically a lateral move, and there's always the risk/hassle factor associated with switching companies. Assuming that everything is a push in terms of pros and cons between the two compaines, how much is it worth to stay where I'm comfortable?

[KurtCobain]

Originally Posted by Ku Klux Klan 4 KC

Saul Good you are a pillowbiter

And you're probably an obese WOW nerd.

[Ming the Merciless]

Good luck....

I can't really offer any advice.....but just wish you the best.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

When I started the job 5 years ago, I was 27 and single. I had a good job before, and this job nearly doubled my salary. It was great, but I'm not making that much more now than I was 5 years ago, as standard raises have been about 3% a year. It's still really good money, but it's hard to take a risk when I find myself in a comfort zone.

What type of raise would someone have to offer you in order to take a lateral position at another company?

Originally Posted by Bugeater

It would have to be at least 25% for them to even get my attention. It's tough to put a dollar value on not dreading to have to go to work in the morning.

A wise man told me 20% to move. That was before the crash.

My advice is talk to your potential employer and talk to them about what your average day was like. Try to determine what the corporate culture is like.

That might make things easier.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

Without knowing your company or boss's attitude towards these types of things, I would say keep this in mind.

You are basically holding your company hostage if you tell them about the other offer and ask them to match or meet you somewhere.

Nothing wrong with that but keep in mind, even if they match or meet you in the middle, there may be resentment going forward that could cause trouble later. Maybe not I don't know your company.

Not saying it should be that way or it's correct just saying I have seen it happen.

One approach would be just to put in notice. They will obviously ask you why and you can tell them better financial opportunity. If they want to make you a counter offer it's on them at that point.

I guess all I am saying and you may already know this, don't go in there saying or implying I am leaving unless you give me XXX. Let them approach you about what they need to do to keep you.

If they don't do that you are probably better off going where they value you more anyway.

Good luck.

I agree with this whole heartedly. I wouldn't make any demands. I would decide if I was willing to leave, and if I was, I would explain that it's simply too much money to pass up and give notice. I would also make it clear that I didnt want to go but again, the money is just too much to pass up. If they offer you more, youre good. If they dont, they should at least understand and respect your decision enough to leave an open door if things dont work out at the new gig. Good luck with whatever road you decide to go down.

[Dayze]

i left a stable job in Feb '08 for a new gig making 30% more/ new position to build upon etc.

By Oct 08/low point of the economy, new gig went bankrupt; office closed. Out of work for 6 months. finally took a job (the only offer I received in 6 months) for 42% less than my FEb '08 salary; couldn't keep up; foreclosed upon etc.

life has sucked for 2+ years; slowly improving though.

Granted, that was 2 years ago so maybe the economy and job market is better now etc. But, I'm basically done taking risks in that regard. those 2 years nearly killed me man.

I haven't had a job that didn't suck for over 16 years; so I figure i'll stay with the secure one that sucks.

Good luck dude; sounds like some tough decisions headed your way.

[Iowanian]

My advise is to look at the entire picture, and not just the hooters in the middle(money).

Do you like where you are at and enjoy the co-workers and relationships? That is a hard combination to replace. Is everything else equal? workload? Will you suddenly be working saturdays and late nights? Is the benefit package the same? at least equal number of vacation days? What is the retirement package and how does it compare? How about Insurance, your benefits vs your out of pocket costs? Will you have to move? How does the cost of living compare?

Do you know the new company? Do you know any of their employees or clients? Are they reputable? Do they have a high turnover? How serious are they? Do you like the people you do know and the type of work they'll have you doing?

In the past year(couple of months) I've had 2 company president/officers roll into my office, 1 insinuating a hostile takeover(buyout) and another offer to buy or hire me.....I had a strong enough hand that I didn't fold either time, because what I'm doing now is working....even if I'd likely have had more money in my personal bank and more time at home.

Just don't be too focused on the number.

[MahiMike]

Originally Posted by frazod

In this economy, do you want to give up a secure, reasonably long term job that you're happy with to become the newest employee for a competitor? That's a serious consideration in this economy. And if you get greased by the new place, good chance you'll have burned your bridges with the old one.

A few years ago, I'd say jump and not think twice. But this ain't a few years ago.

Good answer and pretty where I'm at too. I've turned down plenty of higher paying but less secure jobs. Then again, I'm 50 and not 27. At that age, there's plenty of more opportunities.

[Saul Good]

I agree with these comments which is why I am willing to stay where I am even for less money. That said, there must be some theoretical amount of money that would entice me to jump ship.

If they double my pay? Gone
50% increase? Gone
20% increase? Decision time

[Saul Good]

So...

I got a call from the recruiter for the new potential employer yesterday. He said that they are interested and will make me an offer. He told me that they need me to fill out a formal application and list what my salary requirements would be. (He knows what that is, but it needs to be official.)

My requirement is significantly higher than what they originally said they were willing to pay. I asked the recruiter if he had told the new company the range that I was looking for. He said that he had. I asked him if he thought that they could get there. He said that he thinks they can. This would be a sizable raise as well as a signing bonus somewhere in the $10K range.

If they agree to my terms or come close enough that it's a legit starting point for a negotiation, I'm going to ask to observe them for a while. I may even try to just give them a window of a couple of days and tell them that I will be stopping in at some point during that period of time. I really want to see what the dynamics are when it's not planned. (I want real life, not a dog and pony show.) If everything seems cool from there, I'm going to take a queue from rageeumr in post 27 and take the offer to my current employer just to show them what my market value is. I won't make demands, but I want to see if they make a play to keep me.

Here's the thing. Most of the people on here seem to be encouraging me to stay where I am. What's more is that most of my friends say the same thing. I understand why people give that advice, but I didn't expect it to be so one-sided in favor of staying where I am while leaving a lot of money on the table.

I'd like to think that everyone else is just a bunch of pussies afraid of sacking up and getting paid and that I know better, but I know that this isn't necessarily the case. I'm going to have to make a decision by the end of March, and I really don't know what I am going to do.

[Frazod]

Dude, your life, your call. Best of luck whatever you decide to do.

And of course, if you **** it up, we'll be here to say I TOLD YOU SO.

[Zebedee DuBois]

Career advice: Kiss ass, and when management asks for your opinion, give them theirs.

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by Zebedee DuBois

Career advice: Kiss ass, and when management asks for your opinion, give them theirs.

It's actually funny that you say that. I've actually been speaking my mind pretty freely ever since I've had this card in my back pocket. I can't tell if they think they should make me an executive or make me unemployed.

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by frazod

Dude, your life, your call. Best of luck whatever you decide to do.

And of course, if you **** it up, we'll be here to say I TOLD YOU SO.

Why can't real life have a Gaz option?

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

So...

I got a call from the recruiter for the new potential employer yesterday. He said that they are interested and will make me an offer. He told me that they need me to fill out a formal application and list what my salary requirements would be. (He knows what that is, but it needs to be official.)

My requirement is significantly higher than what they originally said they were willing to pay. I asked the recruiter if he had told the new company the range that I was looking for. He said that he had. I asked him if he thought that they could get there. He said that he thinks they can. This would be a sizable raise as well as a signing bonus somewhere in the $10K range.

If they agree to my terms or come close enough that it's a legit starting point for a negotiation, I'm going to ask to observe them for a while. I may even try to just give them a window of a couple of days and tell them that I will be stopping in at some point during that period of time. I really want to see what the dynamics are when it's not planned. (I want real life, not a dog and pony show.) If everything seems cool from there, I'm going to take a queue from rageeumr in post 27 and take the offer to my current employer just to show them what my market value is. I won't make demands, but I want to see if they make a play to keep me.

Here's the thing. Most of the people on here seem to be encouraging me to stay where I am. What's more is that most of my friends say the same thing. I understand why people give that advice, but I didn't expect it to be so one-sided in favor of staying where I am while leaving a lot of money on the table.

I'd like to think that everyone else is just a bunch of pussies afraid of sacking up and getting paid and that I know better, but I know that this isn't necessarily the case. I'm going to have to make a decision by the end of March, and I really don't know what I am going to do.

That sounds like a pretty sound plan. I wouldn't get too excited about it just yet though. It sounds like a lot of "ifs".

I think the overwhelming advice to stay is just to make the point that it would be stupid to jump in for not much money. If there is a legitimate better place for you, most here would do it. But many of us have been burned by things that were not as they appeared.

Ultimately, life is full of decisions. You need to do your due diligence and make the best possible decisions. At least I do, to sleep well at night. But the fact is that almost every one of those decisions is made on limited information at best.

There is still a lot of volatility in the national economic environment. There is lots of news that it is turning around, but be cautious, it's still kind of a bitch out there. My advice is make damn sure the grass is indeed greener and get some sort of reasonable assurance that it will stay greener in the long term before you take on the barb wire fence.

Best of luck dude.

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

Why can't real life have a Gaz option?

Even better, why can't life be like Mass Effect 2? Autosave, Quicksave, and the trusty Restart Mission, for when you realize that your entire plan was screwed from the beginning.