Chiefs Mid-Term Evaluation: Grading Scott Pioli - Page 4

Nightfyre · 09-07-2011, 12:53 AM

Please provide your grade of Scott Pioli through the first two and a half years of service, along with some insight about why you graded him so.

Mine:

Changes in Head Coaches:
Firing Chan Gailey - B - It was a no-brainer. Keeping him on in the capacity of an offensive coordinator was somewhat of a mess, but maybe they got some intel out of him they otherwise wouldn't have.

Hiring Todd Haley - B - I like Todd Haley. I think he has the capacity and balls to bring us to the Superbowl. He definitely does things his way, which is both good and bad. He is also willing to adapt as he goes.

Drafting:
2009 -
Round 1:
Tyson Jackson - (D) A 5-tech drafted at number 3 who should have been drafted somewhere around the middle of the first round. Jackson has failed to impress in his first two seasons; however, that is typical of defensive lineman as their development cycle is thought to average three years. He cannot possibly live up to his draft position.

Round 2:
Matt Cassel - (C) - Cassel has probably played at a B- level, but the huge contract he is under mitigates his play. Further, Pioli continues to stick with him despite his limited upside and time-in-service.

Mike Vrabel - (C) - provided below-average play due to his speed, but supposedly provided veteran leadership. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on that part.

Round 3:
Alex Magee - (F) - Traded to the Buc's to swap a fifth round pick for a sixth round pick two years later.

Round 4:
Donald Washington (C) - A high upside pick that just didn't pan out. I like this pick at the time. Still on the roster (they refuse to give up on him)

Round 5:
Colin Brown (F) - Didn't even make the opening season roster.

Round 6:
Quinten Lawrence (C) - Mediocre non-contributor, Currently on the Practice Squad

Round 7:
Javarris Williams - (C) - Released and subsequently signed with the Texans.

Jake O'Connell - (C) - How does this guy justify a roster spot?

Ryan Succop - (A) - What a pickup. A good kicker with the leg to become an elite one.

2010:

Round 1:
Eric Berry - (A+) - A super high upside pick with great intangibles, made the pro-bowl his first year.

Round 2:
Dexter McCluster - (C) - An undersized player they envisioned at the slot. He did win us the first game of the 2010 season, but he suffered an injury. It's hard to pin down just what McCluster will contribute. Regardless, at this point it appears unlikely to be worth a second round pick.

Javier Arenas - (B-) - He is likely a career nickel-back, which he does well and has upside at. Given the frequency with which nickel-backs are used in todays NFL, I am going to say he has potential to justify his draft position, but he will have to become pretty elite.

Round 3:
Jon Asamoah - (B+) - He is starting in 2011, and while he does not yet appear to be elite, he certainly has the potential.

Round 4:
Tony Moeaki - (B) - An elite tight-end in the making. The only caveat is that he has difficulty remaining healthy. May the lord bless us with a miracle surgeon.

Round 5:
Kendrick Lewis - (A) - A starting FS whose play in 2010 was adequate. Here's hoping he continues to improve.

Cameron Sheffield - (B) - After suffering a freak neck injury in 2010, we finally get to see Sheffield this year. He appears to be a moderate-upside player.

2011 Draft:
Round 1:
Jonathon Baldwin - (B+) - A top ten talent/athlete with character questions and a skill-set in severe need of an overhaul. Drafted near the bottom of round 1. His measurables are off the charts. He is slightly bigger than Larry Fitzgerald and as athletic. He must improve his attitude, his route-running, and his ability to break off press coverage. Amazing Hands. I hope this kid pans out, because I see Larry Fitzgerald upside.

Round 2:
Rodney Hudson - (B) - A highly-touted guard/center, but slightly undersized. Based on the preseason he is going to take some polish, but another good selection based on the information we have now.

Round 3:
Justin Houston - (B+) - A first round talent who dropped due to a failed drug test. He appears to have elite upside based on what we have seen thusfar.

Allen Bailey - (B+) - Another highly talented individual who appears to have elite upside.

Round 4:
Jalil Brown - (B) - Appears to have the stuff to make it as a number 2 corner, based on what we've seen thusfar.

Round 5:
Ricky Stanzi - (B) - Appears to have a better skillset and arm than Cassel, but we do not have a sufficient sample to draw any conclusions yet.

Round 6:
Gabe Miller - (C+) - Currently on the IR. I have not seen him play yet.

Jerrel Powe - (B) - Appears to have quite the upside for a nose tackle. Many would have been happy to see him drafted in round four, let alone six.

Round 7:
Shane Bannon - (C) - Currently on the practice squad.

OVERALL DRAFTING GRADE: B
I added less weight to the first draft given the timeframe in which Pioli was added.

Notable Free Agents:
2009:
Jovan Belcher - An UDFA who appears to have high upside as a MLB.
Terrence Copper - Special Teams player

2010:
Casey Weigman - A veteran with good presence in the locker room. Played well early in the season but lost too much weight/steam in the second half to be effective.

Thomas Jones- A veteran presence in the lockerroom, probably responsible for us maintaining Charles (an oft overlooked point.) On the other hand he did break our first round picks hand.

Ryan Lilja - A great pickup at Guard. A starter with some miles left on him.

Shaun Smith - An awesome pickup on the defensive line. He moved on to the Titans but provided one of his best years to KC.

Mike Brown - Lost too much speed to be effective.

Jerhame Urban - Still has a roster spot anyway.

2011:

Steve Breaston - Appears to be a solid addition, currently starting opposite Bowe.

Kelly Gregg - Hopefully he can show Powe the ropes. no one is sure how much he has left in the tank.

Steve Piscitelli - Safety depth, sort of.

Brandon Siler - Appeared to be a terrific pickup until he hit the IR.

Keary Colbert - Has a roster spot. Maybe he can show some of his old magic.

Le'ron McClain - An all-pro FB should provide excellent improvement in the short yardage running game, an area sorely missed last season.

Free Agency Grade: B-
We have added some players, however I would say Pioli has only done a slightly above-average job thusfar acquiring talent through free agency.

Pioli's overall grade: B

He has substantially improved the roster and the coaching staff. However, he has a long way to go to bring us to the Bowl.

Nightfyre · 09-07-2011, 08:31 AM

Some of you guys take this shit entirely too seriously. Its funny to see you get all butthurt white knighting for pioli in a thread on a football forum. Heaven forbid we put up threads for the sake of generating discussion about football.

Reerun_KC · 09-07-2011, 08:37 AM

IMO, Pioli and Haley are freaking saviors of this franchise....

They both get A ****ing +'s.... Why? Because they are not Carl, Marty, Gunter or Herm....

They seem to have a plan, direction and they dont give two shits about the KC media and/or the wanna be GM's... All they seem to care about is building a team they feal will compete for championships...

Its been a long long time since we had that in KC...

King_Chief_Fan · 09-07-2011, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoman69

So we can't talk about anything then? We can't talk about player eval because we're not a GM. We can't talk about any of the coaches because we've never been a coach. We can't talk about Cassel because none of us have ever been an NFL QB.

and get back under the table.

talk about them all you want.....back it up with some facts vs. opinions.
for example: Cassel is not a very good qb because...INT"S TD's Completions.....get the picture? Or do I need to draw you one?

King_Chief_Fan · 09-07-2011, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiEd

His first draft was an F-, but he did get a late start. If only he had of deferred that draft to our draftabulators, this team would be Super Bowl bound.

His next two have been stellar, and this team seems to no longer be devoid of talent. I love the fire Haley brings, and his self confidence to do it his own way.

I would give Pioli a solid B+.

excellent point.......all the experts on here need to get them a job as GM, Coach or buy a team

milkman · 09-07-2011, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King_Chief_Fan

talk about them all you want.....back it up with some facts vs. opinions.
for example: Cassel is not a very good qb because...INT"S TD's Completions.....get the picture? Or do I need to draw you one?

Stats mean jack.

**notorious** · 09-07-2011, 08:52 AM

Grade by the curve.

Superbowl Champions = A

Herm Era = F

Pioli earns a solid B for improvement at every single position on the field and rejuvinating the fanbase.

Reerun_KC · 09-07-2011, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

Stats mean jack.

And so do our opinions.....

Only thing that matters is W/L records and championships...

Chief Faithful · 09-07-2011, 08:56 AM

Never going to hit on every player, but they seem to hit much more frequently. I think this is because now they have an idea what they are looking for in ability and character. They also seem to have a methodology that works for screening the talent.

My grade for Pioli is an A.

milkman · 09-07-2011, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

And so do our opinions.....

Only thing that matters is W/L records and championships...

Yes, our opinions really do mean jack.

So let's just shut down these type of forums.

Reerun_KC · 09-07-2011, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

Yes, our opinions really do mean jack.

So let's just shut down these type of forums.

You lead the charge Milkman... You go get'em.

Messier · 09-07-2011, 08:58 AM

It's really hard to grade Pioli right now, but you'd have to say he's done about everything you could ask of him so far. Draft is too much of a crap shoot to blame or credit any one person for. Haley may or may not be the right coach for the long term, but I don't think it's just a coincidence that he managed to get the most out of players like Bowe and Johnson.

Cassel is a middle of the pack QB, but to give up just a 2nd for him, and Vrable is a really good deal.

Pasta Little Brioni · 09-07-2011, 09:00 AM

All that matters is that the collection of talent he does assemble wins a championship in the next couple of years.

King_Chief_Fan · 09-07-2011, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

Stats mean jack.

looks like you and stats have something in common

Reerun_KC · 09-07-2011, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King_Chief_Fan

looks like you and stats have something in common

Milkman is a reasonable and very good guy.. Its just fun to push his buttons every now and then....

King_Chief_Fan · 09-07-2011, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

Milkman is a reasonable and very good guy.. Its just fun to push his buttons every now and then....

he is...and you are right. we seldom get a chance to give him a good whack

09-07-2011, 12:53 AM
Nightfyre MVP Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Helena, MT Casino cash: $1358849	Mid-Term Evaluation: Grading Scott Pioli Please provide your grade of Scott Pioli through the first two and a half years of service, along with some insight about why you graded him so. Mine: Changes in Head Coaches: Firing Chan Gailey - B - It was a no-brainer. Keeping him on in the capacity of an offensive coordinator was somewhat of a mess, but maybe they got some intel out of him they otherwise wouldn't have. Hiring Todd Haley - B - I like Todd Haley. I think he has the capacity and balls to bring us to the Superbowl. He definitely does things his way, which is both good and bad. He is also willing to adapt as he goes. Drafting: 2009 - Round 1: Tyson Jackson - (D) A 5-tech drafted at number 3 who should have been drafted somewhere around the middle of the first round. Jackson has failed to impress in his first two seasons; however, that is typical of defensive lineman as their development cycle is thought to average three years. He cannot possibly live up to his draft position. Round 2: Matt Cassel - (C) - Cassel has probably played at a B- level, but the huge contract he is under mitigates his play. Further, Pioli continues to stick with him despite his limited upside and time-in-service. Mike Vrabel - (C) - provided below-average play due to his speed, but supposedly provided veteran leadership. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on that part. Round 3: Alex Magee - (F) - Traded to the Buc's to swap a fifth round pick for a sixth round pick two years later. Round 4: Donald Washington (C) - A high upside pick that just didn't pan out. I like this pick at the time. Still on the roster (they refuse to give up on him) Round 5: Colin Brown (F) - Didn't even make the opening season roster. Round 6: Quinten Lawrence (C) - Mediocre non-contributor, Currently on the Practice Squad Round 7: Javarris Williams - (C) - Released and subsequently signed with the Texans. Jake O'Connell - (C) - How does this guy justify a roster spot? Ryan Succop - (A) - What a pickup. A good kicker with the leg to become an elite one. 2010: Round 1: Eric Berry - (A+) - A super high upside pick with great intangibles, made the pro-bowl his first year. Round 2: Dexter McCluster - (C) - An undersized player they envisioned at the slot. He did win us the first game of the 2010 season, but he suffered an injury. It's hard to pin down just what McCluster will contribute. Regardless, at this point it appears unlikely to be worth a second round pick. Javier Arenas - (B-) - He is likely a career nickel-back, which he does well and has upside at. Given the frequency with which nickel-backs are used in todays NFL, I am going to say he has potential to justify his draft position, but he will have to become pretty elite. Round 3: Jon Asamoah - (B+) - He is starting in 2011, and while he does not yet appear to be elite, he certainly has the potential. Round 4: Tony Moeaki - (B) - An elite tight-end in the making. The only caveat is that he has difficulty remaining healthy. May the lord bless us with a miracle surgeon. Round 5: Kendrick Lewis - (A) - A starting FS whose play in 2010 was adequate. Here's hoping he continues to improve. Cameron Sheffield - (B) - After suffering a freak neck injury in 2010, we finally get to see Sheffield this year. He appears to be a moderate-upside player. 2011 Draft: Round 1: Jonathon Baldwin - (B+) - A top ten talent/athlete with character questions and a skill-set in severe need of an overhaul. Drafted near the bottom of round 1. His measurables are off the charts. He is slightly bigger than Larry Fitzgerald and as athletic. He must improve his attitude, his route-running, and his ability to break off press coverage. Amazing Hands. I hope this kid pans out, because I see Larry Fitzgerald upside. Round 2: Rodney Hudson - (B) - A highly-touted guard/center, but slightly undersized. Based on the preseason he is going to take some polish, but another good selection based on the information we have now. Round 3: Justin Houston - (B+) - A first round talent who dropped due to a failed drug test. He appears to have elite upside based on what we have seen thusfar. Allen Bailey - (B+) - Another highly talented individual who appears to have elite upside. Round 4: Jalil Brown - (B) - Appears to have the stuff to make it as a number 2 corner, based on what we've seen thusfar. Round 5: Ricky Stanzi - (B) - Appears to have a better skillset and arm than Cassel, but we do not have a sufficient sample to draw any conclusions yet. Round 6: Gabe Miller - (C+) - Currently on the IR. I have not seen him play yet. Jerrel Powe - (B) - Appears to have quite the upside for a nose tackle. Many would have been happy to see him drafted in round four, let alone six. Round 7: Shane Bannon - (C) - Currently on the practice squad. OVERALL DRAFTING GRADE: B I added less weight to the first draft given the timeframe in which Pioli was added. Notable Free Agents: 2009: Jovan Belcher - An UDFA who appears to have high upside as a MLB. Terrence Copper - Special Teams player 2010: Casey Weigman - A veteran with good presence in the locker room. Played well early in the season but lost too much weight/steam in the second half to be effective. Thomas Jones- A veteran presence in the lockerroom, probably responsible for us maintaining Charles (an oft overlooked point.) On the other hand he did break our first round picks hand. Ryan Lilja - A great pickup at Guard. A starter with some miles left on him. Shaun Smith - An awesome pickup on the defensive line. He moved on to the Titans but provided one of his best years to KC. Mike Brown - Lost too much speed to be effective. Jerhame Urban - Still has a roster spot anyway. 2011: Steve Breaston - Appears to be a solid addition, currently starting opposite Bowe. Kelly Gregg - Hopefully he can show Powe the ropes. no one is sure how much he has left in the tank. Steve Piscitelli - Safety depth, sort of. Brandon Siler - Appeared to be a terrific pickup until he hit the IR. Keary Colbert - Has a roster spot. Maybe he can show some of his old magic. Le'ron McClain - An all-pro FB should provide excellent improvement in the short yardage running game, an area sorely missed last season. Free Agency Grade: B- We have added some players, however I would say Pioli has only done a slightly above-average job thusfar acquiring talent through free agency. Pioli's overall grade: B He has substantially improved the roster and the coaching staff. However, he has a long way to go to bring us to the Bowl.
Posts: 18,647

09-07-2011, 08:31 AM	#46
Nightfyre MVP Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Helena, MT Casino cash: $1358849	Some of you guys take this shit entirely too seriously. Its funny to see you get all butthurt white knighting for pioli in a thread on a football forum. Heaven forbid we put up threads for the sake of generating discussion about football.
Posts: 18,647

09-07-2011, 08:37 AM	#47
Reerun_KC Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Casino cash: $7231160	IMO, Pioli and Haley are freaking saviors of this franchise.... They both get A ****ing +'s.... Why? Because they are not Carl, Marty, Gunter or Herm.... They seem to have a plan, direction and they dont give two shits about the KC media and/or the wanna be GM's... All they seem to care about is building a team they feal will compete for championships... Its been a long long time since we had that in KC...
Posts: 1,529

09-07-2011, 08:52 AM	#51
notorious Supporter Join Date: May 2005 Location: Who knows? Casino cash: $-774116	Grade by the curve. Superbowl Champions = A Herm Era = F Pioli earns a solid B for improvement at every single position on the field and rejuvinating the fanbase.
Posts: 88,505

09-07-2011, 08:56 AM	#53
Chief Faithful Predicting Chiefs Victory Join Date: Sep 2001 Casino cash: $9966500	Never going to hit on every player, but they seem to hit much more frequently. I think this is because now they have an idea what they are looking for in ability and character. They also seem to have a methodology that works for screening the talent. My grade for Pioli is an A.
Posts: 4,315

09-07-2011, 08:58 AM	#56
Messier MVP Join Date: Mar 2004 Casino cash: $10005050	It's really hard to grade Pioli right now, but you'd have to say he's done about everything you could ask of him so far. Draft is too much of a crap shoot to blame or credit any one person for. Haley may or may not be the right coach for the long term, but I don't think it's just a coincidence that he managed to get the most out of players like Bowe and Johnson. Cassel is a middle of the pack QB, but to give up just a 2nd for him, and Vrable is a really good deal.
Posts: 7,610

09-07-2011, 09:00 AM	#57
Pasta Little Brioni Consuming CP souls Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: U.S.A. Casino cash: $368880	All that matters is that the collection of talent he does assemble wins a championship in the next couple of years. __________________ **Official TFWdemB Trivia Commisioner**
Posts: 72,927