Chiefs Exposed - Page 7

'Hamas' Jenkins · 09-18-2011, 07:06 PM

What else can you really say? This is a terrible football team.

What does it portend? That's a little harder to say.

1) I was willing to grant Haley some slack after the disastrous season opener, but seeing how this team responded, and how it has responded the last four games, he needs to be a dead man walking. The problem with Haley is the problem that happens with any hothead, whether it's Lou Piniella, Bobby Valentine, or Mangino: no one wants to play for, or listen to a prick when they are losing. If he could command respect it's one thing, but being a failed golfer who got into the NFL through daddy connections will kill him in a situation like this. It's the height of irony, really.

That team has a lot of quit in it.

2) Pioli may be one of the luckiest men in the NFL if this team is as bad as it looks right now. His own mismanagement of the team could literally cause the franchise to fall ass over teakettle into Andrew Luck, a pick for which he would take all the credit.

3) Romeo's defense is antiquated. You can't sit back and wait for a QB to pick you apart in a league where corners can't jam and you only have one legitimate pass rusher. This team needs to be shooting gaps and leaning on its corners, not expecting the linebackers and safeties to cover down the field or in the seams.

4) The telephone game is one of many things killing the offense. You can't say that multiple relays/filters is a good idea in a situation like that. It's one more potential area for failure. You don't need four sticks of RAM that have the same total capacity as two would.

5) The injuries have been disastrous, but you can't dodge that bug forever. I read an NFL preview on Grantland where Bill Barnwell pointed out the staggeringly low number of games lost by the Chiefs last year. This is the unlucky flip side of that coin. Given the schedule and the lack of focus, it's not the worst of all possible breaks to have it happen this year.

What can you say, really?

A lot of this stems from the 2009 offseason. By trading for Cassel in February, Pioli effectively passed on both Stafford and Sanchez. He hired Haley, a guy who looks daily more like the Reno airshow, and he made possibly the worst pick in Chiefs history at #3, and followed it up with maybe the worst draft in Chiefs history.

The ideology behind the roster construction is totally bankrupt, so it's hard to have much of any faith at this point.

Amnorix · 09-19-2011, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

3) Romeo's defense is antiquated. You can't sit back and wait for a QB to pick you apart in a league where corners can't jam and you only have one legitimate pass rusher. This team needs to be shooting gaps and leaning on its corners, not expecting the linebackers and safeties to cover down the field or in the seams.

I agree with the dramatic changes NFL defenses need to undergo as a result of the "new" way of playing.

Quote:

5) The injuries have been disastrous, but you can't dodge that bug forever. I read an NFL preview on Grantland where Bill Barnwell pointed out the staggeringly low number of games lost by the Chiefs last year. This is the unlucky flip side of that coin. Given the schedule and the lack of focus, it's not the worst of all possible breaks to have it happen this year.

Yeah, because evening out a good year injury-wise is to have season-ending injuries to two if not three of the top five (top three?) players on the team. Oh, and to have them VERY early in the season.

Quote:

and he made possibly the worst pick in Chiefs history at #3, and followed it up with maybe the worst draft in Chiefs history.

The top of the draft that year has been pretty damn mediocre overall. You can argue for Sanchez, of course, but I'm not sure how many pro bowls the entire top of that draft has been to. It wasn't only the Chiefs struggling to make a good choice high in that draft.

Raji's been the only real stud out of teh top 10. So far, Sanchez isn't in that category yet due to pedestrian numbers in the regular season, and Stafford can't stay on the field enough. We'll see where those two go, of course...

Just sayin'.

1 Lions Matthew Stafford QB
2 Rams Jason Smith OT
3 Chiefs Tyson Jackson DE
4 Seahawks Aaron Curry OLB
5 Jets Mark Sanchez QB
6 Bengals Andre Smith OT
7 Raiders Darrius Heyward-Bey WR
8 Jaguars Eugene Monroe OT
9 Packers B.J. Raji DT
10 49ers Michael Crabtree WR
11 Bills Aaron Maybin DE
12 Broncos Knowshon Moreno RB
13 Redskins Brian Orakpo DE
14 Saints Malcolm Jenkins CB
15 Texans Brian Cushing OLB
16 Chargers Larry English DE
17 Buccaneers Josh Freeman QB
18 Broncos Robert Ayers LB
19 Eagles Jeremy Maclin WR
20 Lions Brandon Pettigrew TE
21 Browns Alex Mack C
22 Vikings Percy Harvin WR
23 Ravens Michael Oher OT
24 Falcons Peria Jerry DT
25 Dolphins Vontae Davis CB
26 Packers Clay Matthews OLB
27 Colts Donald Brown RB
28 Bills Eric Wood C
29 Giants Hakeem Nicks WR
30 Titans Kenny Britt WR
31 Cardinals Chris Wells RB
32 Steelers Evander Hood DT

**The Franchise** · 09-19-2011, 10:10 AM

Yeah....and at the time we had no NT. Raji should have been the pick.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 09-19-2011, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack

Your referral to the Reno Air Show is as tasteless as the stupidity of your analysis. . .

How's it stupid?

**Bowser** · 09-19-2011, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pestilence

Yeah....and at the time we had no NT. Raji should have been the pick.

True. Hindsight is a bitch. But looking at that first round, it really was a pretty average one. A few good to really good players, and a whole lot of guys that are just players.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 09-19-2011, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowser

True. Hindsight is a bitch. But looking at that first round, it really was a pretty average one. A few good to really good players, and a whole lot of guys that are just players.

This would be a little more accurate had we taken a guy like Sims, who was widely believed to be worth the pick, and he busted, rather than a 1-2 punch of Tyson Jackson at #3 and Matt Cassel as our QBOTF.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 09-19-2011, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

I
Yeah, because evening out a good year injury-wise is to have season-ending injuries to two if not three of the top five (top three?) players on the team. Oh, and to have them VERY early in the season.

The top of the draft that year has been pretty damn mediocre overall. You can argue for Sanchez, of course, but I'm not sure how many pro bowls the entire top of that draft has been to. It wasn't only the Chiefs struggling to make a good choice high in that draft.

Raji's been the only real stud out of teh top 10. So far, Sanchez isn't in that category yet due to pedestrian numbers in the regular season, and Stafford can't stay on the field enough. We'll see where those two go, of course...

Just sayin'.

1 Lions Matthew Stafford QB
2 Rams Jason Smith OT
3 Chiefs Tyson Jackson DE
4 Seahawks Aaron Curry OLB
5 Jets Mark Sanchez QB
6 Bengals Andre Smith OT
7 Raiders Darrius Heyward-Bey WR
8 Jaguars Eugene Monroe OT
9 Packers B.J. Raji DT
10 49ers Michael Crabtree WR
11 Bills Aaron Maybin DE
12 Broncos Knowshon Moreno RB
13 Redskins Brian Orakpo DE
14 Saints Malcolm Jenkins CB
15 Texans Brian Cushing OLB
16 Chargers Larry English DE
17 Buccaneers Josh Freeman QB
18 Broncos Robert Ayers LB
19 Eagles Jeremy Maclin WR
20 Lions Brandon Pettigrew TE
21 Browns Alex Mack C
22 Vikings Percy Harvin WR
23 Ravens Michael Oher OT
24 Falcons Peria Jerry DT
25 Dolphins Vontae Davis CB
26 Packers Clay Matthews OLB
27 Colts Donald Brown RB
28 Bills Eric Wood C
29 Giants Hakeem Nicks WR
30 Titans Kenny Britt WR
31 Cardinals Chris Wells RB
32 Steelers Evander Hood DT

1) Moeaki was not one of the five best players on the team, and definitely not top 3. In fact, he'd had a horrible preseason. Charles and Berry, yeah, that's a killer, but teams get decimated by injuries sometimes (Green Bay)

2) Your claim about the top of the draft lacking weight would have more merit had we drafted someone who was considered a prospect worthy of the top of the draft at that time. Sadly, we picked a guy who was around the 15-20th best prospect and paid him #3 money at a position of moderate impact.

If you are moving to a 3-4 and you want defense to be that first pick, it's not like Orakpo and Raji weren't considered better prospects than Jackson, they undoubtedly were. They also play more important positions to the defense. Clay Matthews was in the same realm as Tyson Jackson; mid-late first rounder.

Jack · 09-19-2011, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

How's it stupid?

You haven't offered anything that hasn't be supposition innumerable times. It is a sorry reason to attribute the teams failure for so long other than pointing the finger to the very top.

Having been involved in the Reno Air Show many years ago, it just wasn't very good metaphorically.

**Bowser** · 09-19-2011, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

This would be a little more accurate had we taken a guy like Sims, who was widely believed to be worth the pick, and he busted, rather than a 1-2 punch of Tyson Jackson at #3 and Matt Cassel as our QBOTF.

Can't argue this. At the time, Cassel looked promising, especially considering what we had at QB. I had no opinion of Jackson as I knew nothing about him (which maybe was all I needed to know).

'Hamas' Jenkins · 09-19-2011, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack

You haven't offered anything that hasn't be supposition innumerable times. It is a sorry reason to attribute the teams failure for so long other than pointing the finger to the very top.
.

Romeo's defense being antiquated isn't supposition. It's a claim supported by direct evidence on the field.

The telephone game obviously hampered the team on 4th and 1 yesterday, when they were unable to get a play in, and then were penalized for too many men on the field. That's not supposition, either. I didn't conjure that event out of the ether.

Injuries happen and tend to normalize themselves over time, provided you don't have a completely inept training staff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack

Having been involved in the Reno Air Show many years ago, it just wasn't very good metaphorically

It's my supposition that this is the real heart of your discontent.

chiefzilla1501 · 09-19-2011, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

1) Lots of guys from nearly any place a coach has been before will follow him elsewhere because coaches are generally more apt to go after players they know. I can't think of a better endorsement than Monty Beisel, Leonard Pope, and Lance Long following a coach to a new city. Of course they'd follow him there, they need every advantage they can to make a roster.

2) There was nothing innovative about the offense that he ran in Arizona, other than how terrible the running game was. You're trying to pawn him off like he's Mike Martz or Don Coryell, and that's completely disingenuous.

3) No one knew the name Todd Haley until January 2009, and then they knew it for those sideline blowups. Sure, he met a lot of things on a check-off list: coordinator, disciplinarian, etc., but being a good coach is not a compilation of check off boxes. To be a good coach you have to be willing to delegate and trust your assistants, and make sane decisions, and I think it's pretty clear that he can't do that. That's not just a function of who calls plays, either.

4) I forgot another reason why people would have known Haley's name: his wife found a rat in a salad.

5) I'll reiterate: everyone likes a tough guy when they win, but a hard-driving maniac can really wear players out whenever things aren't going well.

Again I never said he was an offensive mastermind. But you continue to act like anyone can coordinate a super bowl offense. You act like he got hired because he yells, reverend that he was the oc of a very offensive minded team that had a huge playoff run. And again... Youre not addressing why keyshawn, fitz and warner gush about him as a coach. You don't hear warner talk about mart or keyshawn talk about he tuna with nearly the same level of fondness.

He was young, had a huge season in 2008, and his players seemed to really respond well to him. As for his ability to delegate... The only issue we've seen is that he didn't work well with weis. And maybe that's on pioli for forcing weis on him.

I think its ridiculous to say he was only coveted because of yhe trew and because he yells. That's a gross discredit to his solid accomplishments as a receivers coach and a coordinator for a super bowl offense. It was a good hire. The fact that he and pioli aren't getting along definitely leads me to believe he's been handcuffed. Clearly you can't look at this roster and say Haley has been handed championship personnel.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 09-19-2011, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Again I never said he was an offensive mastermind. But you continue to act like anyone can coordinate a super bowl offense. You act like he got hired because he yells, reverend that he was the oc of a very offensive minded team that had a huge playoff run. And again... Youre not addressing why keyshawn, fitz and warner gush about him as a coach. You don't hear warner talk about mart or keyshawn talk about he tuna with nearly the same level of fondness.

He was young, had a huge season in 2008, and his players seemed to really respond well to him. As for his ability to delegate... The only issue we've seen is that he didn't work well with weis. And maybe that's on pioli for forcing weis on him.

I think its ridiculous to say he was only coveted because of yhe trew and because he yells. That's a gross discredit to his solid accomplishments as a receivers coach and a coordinator for a super bowl offense. It was a good hire. The fact that he and pioli aren't getting along definitely leads me to believe he's been handcuffed. Clearly you can't look at this roster and say Haley has been handed championship personnel.

I'm not claiming that the failure of the team is Haley's responsibility alone, or even a plurality of it. I'm arguing a couple of things:

1) He was known (not coveted, known) for his sideline antics
2) He was relatively inexperienced and his resume was thin
3) A few former players gushing about someone doesn't really mean all that much. If anyone should know this, it's a Chiefs fan. Don't you remember the Herm and DV years?
4) If a guy can't coexist with other offensive play callers and can't co-manage the duties of both HC and OC if he needs all the responsibility, how can you claim that it was a good hire?

Again, this is all a distraction from the broader point. This shouldn't be about Haley, he's just a symptom of the larger disease, which is ownership and management.

Hootie · 09-19-2011, 10:47 AM

Crennel is garbage...too damn conservative and makes no adjustments...but who cares? Bowe is going to break his neck next week and Hali is going to get paralyzed while cassel remains 100% healthy...

stevieray · 09-19-2011, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

5) I'll reiterate: everyone likes a tough guy when they win, but a hard-driving maniac can really wear players out whenever things aren't going well.

as opposed to a rainbow unicorn?

I don't give a damn if players can't handle being called out when underperforming...players aren't bigger than the game, and grown men don't need to be coddled like children.

....that said, I think Haley went soft, and it shows on the field.

**The Franchise** · 09-19-2011, 11:06 AM

I think both the team AND Haley have given up. Haley knows he can't win with Cassel as his QB. Look at the ****ing gameplan yesterday. As soon as Charles went down....Haley threw in the towel. And honestly....I don't blame him.

Frosty · 09-19-2011, 11:13 AM

I personally think that the Chiefs did come and play hard at the beginning of the game. They got after Stafford right away and forced a pick (which talentless McGraw fumbled right back). They moved the ball really well on offense in the first half.

The fumble of the pick, the loss of Charles, the missed FG and the turnovers are what took the wind out of the sails. I don't feel that Haley has lost the team; it's just that there is an albatross at QB and no depth (particularly at safety and RB). Most of that is on Pioli.

09-18-2011, 07:06 PM
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7259572	Exposed What else can you really say? This is a terrible football team. What does it portend? That's a little harder to say. 1) I was willing to grant Haley some slack after the disastrous season opener, but seeing how this team responded, and how it has responded the last four games, he needs to be a dead man walking. The problem with Haley is the problem that happens with any hothead, whether it's Lou Piniella, Bobby Valentine, or Mangino: no one wants to play for, or listen to a prick when they are losing. If he could command respect it's one thing, but being a failed golfer who got into the NFL through daddy connections will kill him in a situation like this. It's the height of irony, really. That team has a lot of quit in it. 2) Pioli may be one of the luckiest men in the NFL if this team is as bad as it looks right now. His own mismanagement of the team could literally cause the franchise to fall ass over teakettle into Andrew Luck, a pick for which he would take all the credit. 3) Romeo's defense is antiquated. You can't sit back and wait for a QB to pick you apart in a league where corners can't jam and you only have one legitimate pass rusher. This team needs to be shooting gaps and leaning on its corners, not expecting the linebackers and safeties to cover down the field or in the seams. 4) The telephone game is one of many things killing the offense. You can't say that multiple relays/filters is a good idea in a situation like that. It's one more potential area for failure. You don't need four sticks of RAM that have the same total capacity as two would. 5) The injuries have been disastrous, but you can't dodge that bug forever. I read an NFL preview on Grantland where Bill Barnwell pointed out the staggeringly low number of games lost by the Chiefs last year. This is the unlucky flip side of that coin. Given the schedule and the lack of focus, it's not the worst of all possible breaks to have it happen this year. What can you say, really? A lot of this stems from the 2009 offseason. By trading for Cassel in February, Pioli effectively passed on both Stafford and Sanchez. He hired Haley, a guy who looks daily more like the Reno airshow, and he made possibly the worst pick in Chiefs history at #3, and followed it up with maybe the worst draft in Chiefs history. The ideology behind the roster construction is totally bankrupt, so it's hard to have much of any faith at this point.
Posts: 75,077

09-19-2011, 10:10 AM	#92
The Franchise Most Valuable Villain Join Date: Dec 2006 Casino cash: $2075047	Yeah....and at the time we had no NT. Raji should have been the pick.
Posts: 92,316

09-19-2011, 10:47 AM	#102
Hootie Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Casino cash: $10004900	Crennel is garbage...too damn conservative and makes no adjustments...but who cares? Bowe is going to break his neck next week and Hali is going to get paralyzed while cassel remains 100% healthy...
Posts: 56,356

09-19-2011, 11:06 AM	#104
The Franchise Most Valuable Villain Join Date: Dec 2006 Casino cash: $2075047	I think both the team AND Haley have given up. Haley knows he can't win with Cassel as his QB. Look at the ****ing gameplan yesterday. As soon as Charles went down....Haley threw in the towel. And honestly....I don't blame him.
Posts: 92,316

09-19-2011, 11:13 AM	#105
Frosty Go Beavers! Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Washington Casino cash: $3498243	I personally think that the Chiefs did come and play hard at the beginning of the game. They got after Stafford right away and forced a pick (which talentless McGraw fumbled right back). They moved the ball really well on offense in the first half. The fumble of the pick, the loss of Charles, the missed FG and the turnovers are what took the wind out of the sails. I don't feel that Haley has lost the team; it's just that there is an albatross at QB and no depth (particularly at safety and RB). Most of that is on Pioli.
Posts: 14,537