Conversation between me and Clayton 11/05/07

[Hootie]

Regarding Eli Manning:

Hootie2485 (1:59:29 AM): he will break every record Favre is setting other than the INT record
Hootie2485 (1:59:32 AM): that one is Favre's to keep
Hootie2485 (1:59:36 AM): you know who is impressing me this year
Hootie2485 (1:59:38 AM): Eli
bfett81 (1:59:42 AM): god no
bfett81 (1:59:43 AM): he sucks
Hootie2485 (1:59:45 AM): no way
Hootie2485 (1:59:47 AM): watch him
bfett81 (1:59:49 AM): he has like 9 picks
Hootie2485 (1:59:50 AM): he's getting there
bfett81 (1:59:52 AM): lame
Hootie2485 (1:59:55 AM): he really is
Hootie2485 (2:00:03 AM): he has a great arm, great pocket awareness, toughness
bfett81 (2:00:03 AM): piece of shit
Hootie2485 (2:00:07 AM): dude separates his shoulder
Hootie2485 (2:00:09 AM): plays the next week
bfett81 (2:00:09 AM): his weapons are playing well, that's it
Hootie2485 (2:00:13 AM): disagree
Hootie2485 (2:00:16 AM): watch a Giants game
Hootie2485 (2:00:18 AM): Eli is getting it done
Hootie2485 (2:00:22 AM): he makes good reads, too
Hootie2485 (2:00:27 AM): he will be a top 5 QB in no time...
Hootie2485 (2:00:28 AM): dude
bfett81 (2:00:29 AM): lol
Hootie2485 (2:00:32 AM): I thought Peyton was super overrated
Hootie2485 (2:00:33 AM): until 2003
Hootie2485 (2:00:38 AM): when I saw his greatness against the Chiefs
bfett81 (2:00:44 AM): eli manning - 58.2 %, 6.4 YPA, 13 TD, 9 INT
Hootie2485 (2:00:45 AM): Eli will never be Peyton
bfett81 (2:00:52 AM): with PLAXICO BURRESS, SHOCKEY AND TOOMER?
Hootie2485 (2:00:57 AM): Eli isn't going to be Peyton, but he is better than Rivers
Hootie2485 (2:00:59 AM): dude
bfett81 (2:01:02 AM): HUARD is beating eli in every category but TDs
Hootie2485 (2:01:04 AM): Shockey is overrated times 10
Hootie2485 (2:01:10 AM): Plaxico is a stud
Hootie2485 (2:01:13 AM): but Toomer is so-so
Hootie2485 (2:01:23 AM): just watch Eli a little...like Huard, sometimes the stats don't tell the story
bfett81 (2:01:28 AM): it's still a shitload of weapons, and jacobs and the OL are playing well
Hootie2485 (2:01:37 AM): Jacobs wasn't back until a few weeks ago
bfett81 (2:01:42 AM): 23rd ranked passing offense
bfett81 (2:01:46 AM): sorry, too many numbers against eli
Hootie2485 (2:01:46 AM): and Eli had to play that dumb stat killing game in London
Hootie2485 (2:01:53 AM): Just watch him play
Hootie2485 (2:01:58 AM): I'm not making this shit up
Hootie2485 (2:02:02 AM): Eli is going to be a really good QB
bfett81 (2:02:03 AM): he's crap
bfett81 (2:02:10 AM): you take away plaxico and he would look like a total bust
Hootie2485 (2:02:12 AM): I would give my left nut for Eli to be on the Chiefs
bfett81 (2:02:20 AM): half his TDs are just thrown up for grabs
Hootie2485 (2:02:24 AM): no way
Hootie2485 (2:02:29 AM): watch Plax's TDs
Hootie2485 (2:02:32 AM): he doesn't Moss them
bfett81 (2:02:36 AM): sure he does
Hootie2485 (2:02:39 AM): He had one where he ran most of the way which was awesome
bfett81 (2:02:41 AM): they tried one against miami
Hootie2485 (2:02:41 AM): no he doesn't
bfett81 (2:02:43 AM): just didn't catch it
Hootie2485 (2:02:47 AM): I'm sure they try it
Hootie2485 (2:02:54 AM): but I've seen him score the majority of his TD's this year
Hootie2485 (2:03:05 AM): and twice Plax did all the work with great catches
bfett81 (2:03:05 AM): find me one stat that says eli is worth a shit
bfett81 (2:03:10 AM): i bet his third down % sucks too
Hootie2485 (2:03:13 AM): dude
Hootie2485 (2:03:16 AM): just do me a favor
Hootie2485 (2:03:21 AM): watch the Giants when you get a chance
Hootie2485 (2:03:25 AM): and watch how Eli plays
bfett81 (2:03:26 AM): i've seen them like 3 times
Hootie2485 (2:03:27 AM): you'll be impressed
bfett81 (2:03:31 AM): he's balls
Hootie2485 (2:03:39 AM): we'll remember this conversation in a year
Hootie2485 (2:03:41 AM): and you'll laugh
Hootie2485 (2:03:46 AM): because Eli is on his way
bfett81 (2:03:46 AM): lol
Hootie2485 (2:03:52 AM): he is WAY BETTER than Rivers
Hootie2485 (2:03:57 AM): probably even Roetlisberger
bfett81 (2:04:00 AM): dude no way
bfett81 (2:04:08 AM): rivers is not nearly as mistake prone
Hootie2485 (2:04:10 AM): JUST WATCH
bfett81 (2:04:11 AM): except against KC
bfett81 (2:04:16 AM): and roethlisberger is a BEAST
bfett81 (2:04:20 AM): eli can't touch big ben
bfett81 (2:04:24 AM): in talent or production
Hootie2485 (2:04:39 AM): Just wait
Hootie2485 (2:04:43 AM): Eli is going to be awesome
Hootie2485 (2:04:51 AM): that's a Rick Houtteman guarantee

[blaise]

So, you posted a thread about some stupid little debate you and someone else had? Holy **** that's reeruned.

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by blaise

So, you posted a thread about some stupid little debate you and someone else had? Holy **** that's reeruned.

I archived it so when I was right I could laugh about how dumb he is, kind of like the Dexter McCluster thread.

Anything else?

[Titty Meat]

Originally Posted by Short Leash Hootie

I archived it so when I was right I could laugh about how dumb he is, kind of like the Dexter McCluster thread.

Anything else?

Guys with small dicks always need validation.

[Amnorix]

So....you posted this to prove that you're wrong?

Hootie2485 (2:03:52 AM): he is WAY BETTER than Rivers

Eli's lifetime rating is a pathetic 81.1. Rivers' is 95.5. Rivers has a better lifetime numbers at, well, just about everything.

Hootie2485 (2:03:57 AM): probably even Roetlisberger

Not so much.

Hootie2485 (2:04:39 AM): Just wait
Hootie2485 (2:04:43 AM): Eli is going to be awesome
Hootie2485 (2:04:51 AM): that's a Rick Houtteman guarantee

I'm waiting. And waiting. He's a two time Pro Bowler, All Pro ZERO times, NFL MVP ZERO times. He won one SB and one SB MVP, of course, but that's only because you can't award an MVP to an entire defensive line -- the guys who really and truly won that game for the Giants.

He doesn't suck. He's probably a top 10 QB in the NFL, but he's not "awesome".

[L.A. Chieffan]

Originally Posted by L.A.Chieffan

Look at the times too...arguing about Eli Manning at 2 O'clock in the ****ing morning!?
I think you boys need to just get past that awkward first kiss and get it over with

How did a nitwit like you get so tasteful?

[HemiEd]

Originally Posted by Short Leash Hootie

hootie pwns claythan

somebody got hammered and was up all night, that would be the only explanation for bumping a thread like this.

[Pants]

@ ass goblin

[blaise]

Originally Posted by Short Leash Hootie

I archived it so when I was right I could laugh about how dumb he is, kind of like the Dexter McCluster thread.

Anything else?

I hope not.

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

So....you posted this to prove that you're wrong?





Eli's lifetime rating is a pathetic 81.1. Rivers' is 95.5. Rivers has a better lifetime numbers at, well, just about everything.



Not so much.



I'm waiting. And waiting. He's a two time Pro Bowler, All Pro ZERO times, NFL MVP ZERO times. He won one SB and one SB MVP, of course, but that's only because you can't award an MVP to an entire defensive line -- the guys who really and truly won that game for the Giants.

He doesn't suck. He's probably a top 10 QB in the NFL, but he's not "awesome".

Who gives a shit about Pro Bowl? Did you read the original debate? Numbers don't mean shit...

Eli and Roethlisberger are probably equals to one another...

They are both head and shoulders above Philip Rivers...and Eli had the kind of year that almost puts him in the same tier as Rodgers, Brady, Brees and his older brother.

[Hootie]

and I can't believe such an "intelligent" Patriots fan brings QB rating into the debate...

back when the Patriots were actually winning playoff games, what was Brady's QB rating? Mid 80's or so?!?!?

Maybe the Patriots need to stop being the Tom Brady Patriots and losing every year and revert back to the New England Patriots...perhaps those all-pros don't correlate to Super Bowl wins...

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by Short Leash Hootie

and I can't believe such an "intelligent" Patriots fan brings QB rating into the debate...

QB ratings are a fairly flawed and completely confusing statistic. Nonetheless, there is no other statistic in the NFL that is such a consistent indicator of winning than QB rating.

I could have gone on and on and on about how Manning's TD to INT ratio isn't even 2:1 lifetime, or how his completion percentage is relatively pedestrian by today's standards. I still can if you want, but I short-handed it all into his QB rating.

back when the Patriots were actually winning playoff games, what was Brady's QB rating? Mid 80's or so?!?!?

Yes. Though most of that was before the significant QB rating inflation that started in 2004 as a result of the changes in rules "emphasis".

Maybe the Patriots need to stop being the Tom Brady Patriots and losing every year and revert back to the New England Patriots...perhaps those all-pros don't correlate to Super Bowl wins...

The Patriots post-2007 have the same problems that the Colts and your beloved Peyton Manning (what is with you and deep anal penetration by that family anyway?) have had for most of their existence -- great offense handicapped by mediocre defenses. That can be a recipe for many regular season victories but is unlikely to result in post-season success. Even Peyton Manning's one SB season, his team's defense had a dramatic turnaround and became a truly very good defnese in the playoffs (partly because of Sanders return to action) after being a historically bad defense during the regular season.

Let's put all that aside. Forget QB ratings. Eli Manning is a good QB. Maybe very good. But he's never been any kind of serious threat for MVP. He's never even started a Pro Bowl. He's never been All Pro. I'll go with very good if you like, but not "great". Not "awesome". Those adjectives just don't apply.

[Frazod]

More of Pootie's insecurities bubbling to the surface. I WAS ONCE RIGHT ABOUT SOMETHING! LOOK! REALLY I WAS! SEE! I SAVED IT TO SHOW YOU! LOOK!

[Hootie]

Eli Manning was a great, great QB this year and awesome.

Almost as awesome as he was in the postseason in 2007 when your Patriots went 18-1 and Thomas Brady played his worst game of the season in that 19th game...

but so funny you now compare Peyton's postseason shortcomings to Tom's as of late...

so you're saying a great QB can't win a title all by himself?!?! Sweet! That's what I've been saying for years!!

So now that we've gotten past that...how was it argued for years and years and years that Tom > Peyton because Tom won the big game...when in reality, Tom's team was winning the big games (as evidenced by the last 7 years) rather than the QB himself (who has become a much better QB since the Pats won their last Super Bowl)...

SO FOOTBALL REALLY IS A TEAM GAME! YOU DON'T SAY!

In short,

Peyton was clearly a superior QB back when Tom was winning Super Bowls. Since then, Tom caught up and they ended up being a toss up, Peyton won a Super Bowl since then, and Tom hasn't really won anything...

So career wise, Peyton was the better NFL QB, but in the later years, Tom certainly caught up...

I'm glad to see you finally admit that defense does matter and QB's don't single-handedly win games in the postseason. Good ones get you there every year, but once you weed out the pretenders and start the big tourney, COMPLETE TEAMS win, and often the hot teams go on runs (the Packers last year, the Giants in 2007, etc. etc.)

so the whole "Manning is a choker" theory is a bunch of bullshit, just like I said for years, and years, and years

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by frazod

More of Pootie's insecurities bubbling to the surface. I WAS ONCE RIGHT ABOUT SOMETHING! LOOK! REALLY I WAS! SEE! I SAVED IT TO SHOW YOU! LOOK!

I have an impeccable record when it comes to QB's on this site...

whether it was Huard/Green, Peyton Manning, Eli, Romo, Carson Palmer, etc...

you can say a lot about me on this site, but apparently I know good QB play when I see it

[Amnorix]

Let's back up. Comparing Manning (Eli) to Tom Brady is like comparing Kenny O'Brien to Joe ****ing Montana. Let's not bother.

Let's compare Eli to Rivers. That works well both because they both came out the same year, and YOU specifically said:

Originally Posted by Loonie Hootie

Hootie2485 (2:03:52 AM): he is WAY BETTER than Rivers

Completion %: Rivers 63.5% / Eli 58.2%

Yards: Identical, more or less, at 24,000

Yards Per Attempt (critical stat for success): Rivers 8.0 / Eli 6.9

TD/Ints: Rivers 163:78 / Eli 164:115

Fumbles (hidden QB stat): Rivers 52, lost 24 / Eli 67, lost 31

Rushing yards etc.: Wash -- neither one of these can run worth a damn -- both have 2.0 or less lifetime rushing average.


So there is not a SINGLE statistical category that Eli is better in than Rivers. Not one. Now, you could argue, and I would absolutely agree, that Rivers had had better offensive talent around him. Life is easier with a Tomlinson, a Gates, a VJax, etc. But IMHO Eli has had better defenses on average (giving him more possessions, and less pressure to win by himself) and better coaching (Norv Turner sucks as HC, no ifs, ands or buts about it).