New Jersey kids randomly knock people out.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

but crimes like Columbine are happening more and more with younger and younger kids. It's at a whole different level now. 20-30 years ago you didn't hear about kids taking guns to schools and shooting everyone up.

But do you honestly think that punishing the parents is going to make them better at it?

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

But do you honestly think that punishing the parents is going to make them better at it?

I was living in Denver when Columbine happened. It was horrific. Parents of the victoms who were killed wanted to blame someone other than Harris and Klebold. They tried to blame the cops (Harris and Klebold had records), they tried to blame the school, they tried to blame the everyone except the people most responsible, the parents.

Harris's room was loaded with bomb making material, hate speech, guns and ammo. He was a ticking time bomb. His parent's ignored it. His parents were not involved in his life.

Now, you tell me, if Harris's parents could have been prosecuted and liable for Eric Harris's insane behavior do you think that maybe, just maybe, Harris's dad might have done an intervention or something?

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

I was living in Denver when Columbine happened. It was horrific. Parents of the victoms who were killed wanted to blame someone other than Harris and Klebold. They tried to blame the cops (Harris and Klebold had records), they tried to blame the school, they tried to blame the everyone except the people most responsible, the parents.

Harris's room was loaded with bomb making material, hate speech, guns and ammo. He was a ticking time bomb. His parent's ignored it. His parents were not involved in his life.

Now, you tell me, if Harris's parents could have been prosecuted and liable for Eric Harris's insane behavior do you think that maybe, just maybe, Harris's dad might have done an intervention or something?

No, I don't believe for a second that the fear of liability would have changed the way Harris's parents raised him.

"I better spend some quality time with little Billy. Otherwise he may grow up to be insane and kill a bunch of people. Then I'd have to pay damages and go to jail."

That's not a logical thought.

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by Fish

No, I don't believe for a second that the fear of liability would have changed the way Harris's parents raised him.

"I better spend some quality time with little Billy. Otherwise he may grow up to be insane and kill a bunch of people. Then I'd have to pay damages and go to jail."

That's not a logical thought.

If Harris's father thought he might end up in prison because his son was a total psycho? I think he would have done something more. Hell, even if he got into Eric's face and Eric killed him, then Eric would have never been able to do the Columbine thing.

Totally logical.

[|Zach|]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

If Harris's father thought he might end up in prison because his son was a total psycho? I think he would have done something more. Hell, even if he got into Eric's face and Eric killed him, then Eric would have never been able to do the Columbine thing.

Totally logical.

Did he think his kid was a total psycho?

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

If Harris's father thought he might end up in prison because his son was a total psycho? I think he would have done something more. Hell, even if he got into Eric's face and Eric killed him, then Eric would have never been able to do the Columbine thing.

Totally logical.

So your logical thought is that if Eric killed his Dad....then Columbine wouldn't have happened.

Yep....totally logical.

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

So your logical thought is that if Eric killed his Dad....then Columbine wouldn't have happened.

Yep....totally logical.

well you tell me what is better buddy.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

If Harris's father thought he might end up in prison because his son was a total psycho? I think he would have done something more. Hell, even if he got into Eric's face and Eric killed him, then Eric would have never been able to do the Columbine thing.

Totally logical.

No, I still completely disagree. Your typical parent would completely deny their own child has a problem as long as possible. In many cases the parents would deny it even after the child had done something horrible.

I have no idea where you're going with the Eric killing Dad line though... WTF?

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by Fish

No, I still completely disagree. Your typical parent would completely deny their own child has a problem as long as possible. In many cases the parents would deny it even after the child had done something horrible.

I have no idea where you're going with the Eric killing Dad line though... WTF?

see post 203

[|Zach|]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

Harris's dad might have done an intervention or something?

What would we have intervened?

I have no doubt if he knew this rule was around he wouldnt have thought it applied to him.

He obviously wasn't listening to his kid.

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by |Zach|

What would we have intervened?

I have no doubt if he knew this rule was around he wouldnt have thought it applied to him.

He obviously wasn't listening to his kid.

He could have told Eric something like this: "Hey Eric, I notice you are trying to build a bomb, can you tell me why you are doing that? Also, why do you have all this hate speech laying around? Who do you hate so much and why? Oh, and what are all these semi-auto guns doing here, and all this ammunition? Hey, if you want to go hunting, or go to the range (because I'm a former military guy myself) why don't we go this weekend? Eric, I love you and I want what is best for you, can we spend some more time together?"

something like that?

[|Zach|]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

He could have told Eric something like this: "Hey Eric, I notice you are trying to build a bomb, can you tell me why you are doing that? Also, why do you have all this hate speech laying around? Who do you hate so much and why? Oh, and what are all these semi-auto guns doing here, and all this ammunition? Hey, if you want to go hunting, or go to the range (because I'm a former military guy myself) why don't we go this weekend? Eric, I love you and I want what is best for you, can we spend some more time together?"

something like that?

Did he know about the existence of all these things?

This is my main point. You can't legislate the turn around of an apathetic parent. And someone who isn't listening obviously doesn't think that worse case scenario applies to them.

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by |Zach|

Did he know about the existence of all these things?

This is my main point. You can't legislate the turn around of an apathetic parent. And someone who isn't listening obviously doesn't think that worse case scenario applies to them.

The point is that Eric's dad never went into Eric's room!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When the police went into Eric's room after the tragedy they found all this stuff all over his rooom, it was everywhere.

Eric's dad was not involved in his life. Period. End of story.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

The point is that Eric's dad never went into Eric's room!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When the police went into Eric's room after the tragedy they found all this stuff all over his rooom, it was everywhere.

Eric's dad was not involved in his life. Period. End of story.

So prosecuting his Dad after the fact would have done what? Scared other parents into caring? Punished him even more than he already has been?

[|Zach|]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

Eric's dad was not involved in his life. Period. End of story.

That is my point as well.

Yet for some reason you think that some weird law would make this not be the case.

"oh hey, I am pretty apathetic about this parenting thing...but i saw on tv parents can get in trouble if their kids are. That is it...I am going to start getting involved"