Brady v. NFL: No Settlement; Judge Berman to Decide

[Amnorix]

Can't find the old thread. Brady and Goodell were back in NYC today for settlement talks. No progress.

Judge Berman said he would likely decide "in the next day or two" and definitely before September 4th.

Interesting how the narrative among the national writers has evolved.


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/roger-g...180816187.html


NEW YORK – They arrived surrounded by lawyers, each wearing a blue suit and displeased expression. Here was Roger Goodell and here was Tom Brady back in federal court in a fight over power, ego and legacy, as much as whether the footballs were deflated in January's AFC championship game.

New York Giants owner John Mara came in an attempt to soften the face of the league's side a bit. Jay Feely, a long-time NFL kicker and friend of Brady's from back at the University of Michigan, arrived to stand by his side.

Once again, nothing worked. A private meeting in front of Judge Richard M. Berman yielded nothing. No one budged. No one backed down. No settlement was reached.
And now both sides roll the dice and sit and wait for a ruling.

"Tomorrow or the day after," Berman said of when he would likely announce whether to vacate Brady's four-game suspension. He assured it would come before Sept. 4, when both sides requested an answer so the New England Patriots can begin preparing for the season opener with or without their star quarterback.

So that's that, all or nothing, all or everything, all eyes on the court docket here.

For Brady it's either a quarter of the season lost or a measure of redemption gained. For Goodell it's either a reaffirmation of the totality of his authority or another humiliating public defeat.

There may be appeals and requests for stays and thus months still to go, what will be won, what may not be done. None of that minimized the tension and drama inside Berman's 17th-floor courtroom here on Monday, when a case that started as a curiosity on that playoff night boiled toward a milestone, if not a conclusion.

Berman clearly knows how he is going to rule and likely has much of the decision already written. He's read and heard it all over the past month. There were no new arguments on Monday. The chief attorneys, Daniel Nash of the NFL and Jeffrey Kessler of the NFL Players Association, both merely stood and praised the efforts of all sides even though, as sometimes happens, they just couldn't reach a settlement.

"This is a time Mr. Nash and I are going to agree," Kessler joked.

The inability to find common ground is not a surprise. Tom Brady was simply never going to admit he had any role in the tampering of those footballs, or even that the footballs were ever tampered with in the first place.

First off, after he said as much under oath and then introduced the transcript into federal court, doing so would risk a perjury charge. More importantly though, it would be a complete reversal, making him a liar and a cheat, crushing his image among not just fans but, most importantly according to those that know him best, his own children.

He also very well may be innocent. The NFL never produced much of a case against him, let alone that the footballs were even unnaturally deflated.

So the only way a settlement could go down was for Goodell to drop any demands for an admission of guilt. He'd have to settle for Brady merely acknowledging a failure to fully cooperate with the investigation. That, however, would be a serious concession from a commissioner who's built his career on cracking heads among misbehaving players.

So there was the irresistible force clashing with the unmovable object, each willing to lose in court as long as he could still save face.
It has been, if nothing else, a remarkable showdown of oversized personalities.

In court Monday, the two men, rich and famous and atop their chosen professions, refused to even look at each other.

When the session was adjourned, both were forced to awkwardly wait for the galley to clear out of media and observers, leaving them within a few feet of each other a couple table rows apart.

Brady stood first and wandered over to one wood-paneled wall of the ornate courtroom. He stuffed his hands in his pocket, looking as intense as any tight fourth-quarter drive. Feely stood by his side and the two eventually hugged.

Goodell, seated in front, stood slowly and also put his hands in his pocket, looking down and then turning in the opposite direction of Brady, trying to wear a face of nonchalance.

Eight months into this scandal, after swings of allegations and misrepresentations, of false media leaks and broadside-legal attacks, the distrust and disgust were clear: Two men known for their ability to smoothly glide through life, with fashion and fabulous hair, looked strangely uncomfortable.

No one ever wants to sit in this position, leaving it to another man, federal judge or not, to declare whether he or she is a cheat or a fraud or a bully or a bum.

Here these two are though, going down that awkward path together. Their lives are seemingly too charmed for this, yet they were like a couple of rivals on opposite sides of the schoolyard, unwilling to even acknowledge the other's presence in front of onlookers.

The stakes seem higher for Goodell, if only because his legal argument here is based on the 1981 Supreme Court decision MLBPA v. Garvey, which essentially prohibits judges from interfering with the decision of arbitrators even if they are horrendously flawed or based on inaccurate facts. Arguing you have the right to be a dictator isn't ideal in public relations terms.

As such, Goodell and the NFL could certainly prevail in front of Berman but do so via a ruling full of the same kind of harsh verbiage that the judge used during two prior public sessions.

It's clear that no matter which way Berman goes, he looked upon the NFL's judicial system in general, and the league's conduct in this case specifically, as lacking any semblance of fairness or competency. He could unload in the ruling and leave Goodell laid out, even if he's technically victorious.

That's the risk Goodell was willing to take. And one Brady is willing to go with, essentially entering the verdict stage with a two-pronged chance at redemption – either total or at least in the court of public opinion. A loss and a four-game suspension would hurt, but he could at least point to an impartial federal judge down in New York agreeing that Goodell is out of line.

It's certainly reasonable that the NFL initially erred when it failed to comprehend Ideal Gas Law and thus initially thought any Patriots football that measured below 12.5 pounds per square inch of inflation was a sign of nefarious conduct. It immediately went after a speeding ticket like a homicide case.

But by the time the league should've have dialed it back, it had already leaked prejudicial stories and begun building a case against Brady and two Patriots locker room attendants. The NFL never was able to find a smoking gun or much more than suspicions, but that didn't matter.

The NFL not only never backed down, it just kept doubling down, believing the full force of the league's power – both in the CBA and in its ability to manipulate national reporters – would overwhelm Brady.

The league may be correct and on the verge of a show-of-force victory. It may be wrong and headed for a comeuppance.

It's all up to Judge Berman now. Who knows what he thinks and who knows what he'll rule. On Monday he seemed eager to make it known though as he sent the two men in fancy blue suits off into the Manhattan morning, Goodell via a black Escalade, Brady in a Chevy Suburban. Each is left awaiting his word.

The QB v. the Commissioner, it's all or everything now.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

This isn't rocket science. Ball boy takes footballs into a bathroom, balls end up deflated,

Not if the refs OWN MEMORY as to which gauge he uses is correct. If you rely on THAT gauge, then all the balls are WITHIN the ideal gas law predicted deflation. ALL the Patriots balls.

brady has spike in conversations with equipment managers,

The NFL pointed to this also, as if it was proof of guilt, which is AMAZING to me. Would you not also have a spike in communication if they were innocent? Would you not get together and be like "what the **** is going on? Did you guys spike the balls? What happened?!?"

Aren't they going to meet and talk EITHER WAY?

Or would you be like "hey, I didn't do anything, so let's not talk about this at all."


Finally, phone -- optics. They were never getting it. NEVER GETTING IT. If it makes you feel better to think it's in a drawer somewhere, instead of destroyed, that's great, but what possible difference does it make? NEVER getting it.

[Amnorix]

Argh, I really need to not bother doing this. It's pointless. Brady won. Time to move the **** on.

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by Tuckdaddy

Uh no. I don't hate Brady at all. I don't like anyone getting treated special when 20 some odd players took their shit like men. I think he certainly was aware of the football tampering through out the season and that day. A ton of evidence points to it. He is definitely hiding something and does not deserve to get out of his suspension completely. 2 games at lease. He cried and whined like a little girl and was treated differently by getting his case fast tracked to a decision that no other player gets.

Other players have to wait to be heard (AP. Rice, Vilma), in the mean time, serve their suspension. But not him. Not him, he gets to say "Hey, I need this done by this day so I can play" "Yes sir Mr. Brady". He was let off on technicalities in one guys opinion.

He's still a liar and full of shit. The Pats were caught cheating for the second time and punished for the second time but nobody cares now because Brady just negotiated peace on Earth. He's now a national hero for being a liar and getting away with it.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Not if the refs OWN MEMORY as to which gauge he uses is correct. If you rely on THAT gauge, then all the balls are WITHIN the ideal gas law predicted deflation. ALL the Patriots balls.



The NFL pointed to this also, as if it was proof of guilt, which is AMAZING to me. Would you not also have a spike in communication if they were innocent? Would you not get together and be like "what the **** is going on? Did you guys spike the balls? What happened?!?"

Aren't they going to meet and talk EITHER WAY?

Or would you be like "hey, I didn't do anything, so let's not talk about this at all."


Finally, phone -- optics. They were never getting it. NEVER GETTING IT. If it makes you feel better to think it's in a drawer somewhere, instead of destroyed, that's great, but what possible difference does it make? NEVER getting it.

The ball boy went into a bathroom with the footballs. After the footballs were checked. But yeah... Weather.

If brady told us he didn't want to hand over his phone everyone would have supported him. He didn't. He made up some ridiculous excuse about regularly destroying phones. If he told us he prefers deflated footballs but didn't realize there was tampering, people would have shrugged. Instead, he was defiant, claimed he had no idea the balls were deflated (which is utter bullshit for a control freak like brady).

Sure there isn't enough evidence to warrant major penalty. But anyone with half a brain can put the pieces together.

[Chiefnj2]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

The NFL pointed to this also, as if it was proof of guilt, which is AMAZING to me. Would you not also have a spike in communication if they were innocent? Would you not get together and be like "what the **** is going on? Did you guys spike the balls? What happened?!?"

.

If Tom had nothing to do with the balls or had no knowledge, I would have expected him to distance himself from the ball boys and claim no knowledge. It is very fishy he spoke to them for hours and then had a secret meeting with them the next day. If you don't know anything, you don't know anything. Why get involved if you have no knowledge or involvement? I know, in your mind he me with them to get diet tips.

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Just one comment--

If you go by the gauge that the ref himself said it was his "best memory" that he used pre-game, then the science shows absolutely no ball deflation.

You get that right?

Believe the ref was right, and the SCIENCE disproves deflation.


And if the SCIENCE says there was no deflation, who the **** cares what a couple of morons say in texts? If there is no dead body, then there is no murder.


Eh, whatever. Brady won. It's over for a year. Time to move on and hope the Patriots hang FIRE on the NFL just like 2007, except with a win at the end to cement the FU.

First, "yawn".... Ya got away with it, go celebrate.

Second, this is about Goodell showing up in Whoresville. There's nothing that mandates it, they hate him, he hates them (like most honest people), there's zero up-side to him showing up to be roasted and extend the drama, so it's best he not show up. Let the inmate celebrate, no need for the guards to get shivved again...

Third, is it over? If the NFL appeals it, it's not over. So until the decision is made about the appeal, it's probably best he not show-up.

Enjoy your season, I'm sure the Pats will do great, they always do...

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

It's over.

Mother**** this thread, already.

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Argh, I really need to not bother doing this. It's pointless. Brady won. Time to move the **** on.

Good idea, we're not a judge, we can use the gift of common sense to see things for what they are, you're bullshit only works with Pats fans and judges that have had their common sense gene cut out.

But have a great season, you're the Pats, there's no way you won't.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

Good idea, we're not a judge, we can use the gift of common sense to see things for what they are, you're bullshit only works with Pats fans and judges that have had their common sense gene cut out.

Three of them, at last count.

Plus former commissioner Tagliabue

Plus former NFL VP of Labor Relations Henderson

Actually, EVERYONE that has sat in judgment on Goodell's judgments, have told him to GTFO.

[Amnorix]

Pretty good article at Yahoo Sports. Yes, I know -- tl;dr


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/the-arr...215731603.html


Deflate-gate was a case born of ignorance and lost through arrogance.

There was so much arrogance that Roger Goodell was sitting there in April – after New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft conceded defeat, two draft picks, a million bucks and incalculable prestige – and the commissioner still couldn't resist pushing for more.

A pound of Patriots flesh wasn't enough. He had to get one from Tom Brady too, and, now, after getting slapped around Thursday by U.S. District Court Judge Richard M. Berman, it's Goodell who is the one walking out of here wounded and Brady gliding into the season as some kind of unsuspended martyr.
Oh, Roger had it all in his hands back in May. Kraft magnanimously/foolishly dropped the threat of litigation for the good of the NFL. He accepted the Wells report as fact, indefinitely suspended two locker room attendants and was just going to hope time heals all reputations. It was a terrible move; one Kraft himself has admitted was a mistake and even apologized for.

All Goodell had to do was the gentlemanly thing, the thing Kraft expected, and that was make a global settlement offer that included dropping Brady's conclusion of guilt and four-game suspension. It would have quickly and effectively ended the quarterback's appeal and further discovery into the NFL's conduct in the case.

The NFL machine had won, beaten even the mighty Patriots in a battle that was more about public relations than the actual facts around whether the footballs were tampered with during the AFC championship game. Public perception had been flooded by false, yet highly prejudicial stories that the NFL refused to correct, a narrative that made it almost impossible for the Patriots to fight back.

The Wells report was still believed to be "independent" because at that point no one knew that the NFL's general counsel had actually edited it, meaning it wasn't independent at all. Rival owners, fans and players were united.

Goodell was going down in history as the victor, refusing to play favorites even with his favorite owner. All those that were screaming about the flaws in the Wells report would have been dismissed with Pat the Patriot logoed tin foil hats.

Goodell's NFL, however, has the tact of a falling safe, a strange cowboy culture where it must push for every last drop of blood, no matter how imprudent it is to continue the battle.

This is how the whole thing started, after all.

____________________

Troy Vincent, the NFL's executive vice president of football operations, didn't know anything about Ideal Gas Law back on Jan. 19. As such, the investigation into how footballs became deflated during the AFC championship game in January between the Patriots and the Indianapolis Colts began with the belief that any football measured that night below 12.5 PSI was a sign of purposeful cheating, rather than natural deflation. And any number that was well below 12.5 – say in the 11s – must therefore be the result of a big, grand conspiracy.

That belief framed everything else. New England was running a scheme and the NFL gumshoes would prove it.

Only once they learned otherwise, once they found out that a ball can, quite naturally, be measured at 11.5, or that protocol after that game had two pumps with varying measurements that made the entire experiment worthless, or noted that no one ever cared about ball inflation levels before this and the rulebook was indifferent, or thought hard after none of the equipment guys cracked, or when no firm evidence was uncovered, or when there was nothing tying Brady to the possible deflations that night, they should've backed down.

A smart league office would have acted like a smart district attorney and expressed frustration at the lousy facts and poor police work and simply declined to prosecute because the case was weak. It happens.

There are plenty of suspicious things about the footballs that night, enough to look, enough to wonder, even still. There wasn't enough to prove guilt though.

And that's the big difference.

Instead the league tried to bulldoze along. It was enough to get Kraft to quit. It was time for Goodell to take a knee.

Instead he went after Brady, and forever and ever Roger Goodell is going to regret picking that fight.

____________________

Misread the tailored suits and furry Uggs and styled haircuts at your own peril. The guy is tough.

Tom Brady wouldn't quit, wouldn't rattle, wouldn't back down.

Tom Brady wouldn't concede an inch and thus, by bringing in the lawyers, by bringing in the brilliant Jeffrey Kessler, he was able to get the whole ball of nonsense into Richard M. Berman's court of law, a place that lives far from riotous cable television debate shows and Internet message boards.

Brady's appeal hearing with the NFL had been a complete farce, so outrageous that Goodell himself misrepresented Brady's own testimony in his decision, finding him guilty of something he never even said. Comparative punishments were invented, levels of guilt shifted, basic fairness was trampled upon.

By taking on Brady, Goodell allowed Kessler to begin shooting holes not just in the Wells report, but in the kangaroo court that the NFL calls a disciplinary process. With Berman involved, the NFL was no longer able to seal testimony or control the narrative. From that point forward, not a single good thing happened for the league, as suddenly it was Goodell and the NFL on trial.
From the start, almost anyone who was paying attention, anyone who was reading through all the documents and considering all the actions of the league, saw the duplicity involved here was astounding.

You could always keep going back to Square One: Forget about reports of 11 of 12 footballs, the truth was and always has been that the league has no idea if the footballs were even unnaturally deflated in a scandal about unnaturally deflated footballs. Even the Wells report – buried deep, but still – essentially says as much.

The league first decided there was a scandal when there may not have been, then determined there was guilt in said scandal when there may not have been and then worked backward by any means necessary until that work caused a judge to call out the league.

Judge Berman didn't declare Brady innocent on Thursday; he declared the NFL guilty of violating federal law in trying to declare Brady guilty.

For instance, there is no written notice, or precedent of any kind, that a player can be suspended for being "generally aware" of someone else's actions. And Goodell couldn't just arbitrarily make up the corollary that being generally aware of someone else's equipment violation was akin to getting busted for performance-enhancing drugs.

Per NFL rules, even if Brady was guilty he should have only faced a $5,512 fine, the judge said, not a quarter-season suspension.

It was further wrong of Goodell to prohibit Brady from asking questions of NFL counsel Jeff Pash simply because Goodell himself pre-determined Pash's testimony would be "cumulative." How would Goodell know what Pash was going to say? And how arrogant is the NFL that it thinks it can just suppress a witness?

"[Due to Pash's] designation as co-lead investigator with Ted Wells, it is logical that he could have valuable insight into the course and outcome of the Investigation …," Berman aptly noted.

How about that the NFL was obligated to share evidence, a concept so basic and intrinsic and obvious that it was an actual punch line in "My Cousin Vinny."

"It's called disclosure," Mona Lisa Vito, Bill Belichick's favorite character, says, mocking Vinny's legal education.

"Fundamentally unfair," is how Berman put it in his decision.

(Let's a take a second here to note that the NFL lost a case in which it was outraged over Brady's supposed lack of cooperation and unwillingness to hand over evidence, in part because it was uncooperative and unwilling to hand over evidence. Seriously.)

Berman decided that Goodell also couldn't, during an appeals hearing, re-rule on the league's own original decision and determine new levels of guilt for Brady just because he felt like it. Gee, you think?

There was so much here that showed how the NFL, because it went after a speeding ticket like a homicide case, kept acting progressively more desperate as everything crumbled around it.

Yet none of it reaches the cool, considered environs of a federal courtroom if Goodell had just let Brady walk.

And then, even when it does get to Judge Berman, and he is so confrontational with the league that he sounds like a co-defense counsel, the NFL still refused to make any meaningful movement on a deal with Brady. It was the league's final failure to comprehend the cliff it was driving off.

__________________

The league is living in a bubble in which it doesn't matter what's real, it's all about what it can get people to believe is real, including its owners.

Just this week a smart guy named Bob McNair, who happens to own the Houston Texans, sounded stupid when he publicly carried Goodell's water for him in a radio interview. How long do these billionaires want to keep doing that? That's the $44 million-per-year question.

What will it take for the league to revamp its disciplinary process into one that is more equitable and transparent and credible? When does it realize what even the NCAA has realized: Being the bully isn't good for business.

If you paid close enough attention, deflate-gate was a giant circle of nonsense. The NFL banked on almost no one paying close attention.

Yet Goodell, by taking on Brady, all but assured it would wind up on the desk of someone paying extremely close attention: a learned, intelligent, federal judge.

It was ignorance of Ideal Gas Law that got this started. It was arrogance about how a fair mind would rule that ended it.

So Tom Brady plays in Foxborough next Thursday. And a rattled and embattled Roger Goodell has to stay home and watch on TV.

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Three of them, at last count.

Plus former commissioner Tagliabue

Plus former NFL VP of Labor Relations Henderson

Actually, EVERYONE that has sat in judgment on Goodell's judgments, have told him to GTFO.

In what context? That "the Pats didn't do it", or "good luck proving it when people who can't use common sense are in control"?

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

In what context? That "the Pats didn't do it", or "good luck proving it when people who can't use common sense are in control"?

The NFL's "justice" system. It's ****ed.

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

The NFL's "justice" system. It's ****ed.

I think we all agree with that, but I don't think any of them is willing to stand up and say the Pats didn't do this. At best they'd say, "In 2015, with our legal system, you're not allowed to gather the evidence you'd need. Add to it that crooks have rights too, the Pats can't be persecuted or prosecuted unless they're stupid enough to admit to what any form of common sense seems to indicate."

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

I think we all agree with that, but I don't think any of them is willing to stand up and say the Pats didn't do this. At best they'd say, "In 2015, with our legal system, you're not allowed to gather the evidence you'd need. Add to it that crooks have rights too, the Pats can't be persecuted or prosecuted unless they're stupid enough to admit to what any form of common sense seems to indicate."

Berman's decision so crucified the NFL it's fair to say that I don't think he has one damn bit of confidence in any of its findings. But, of course, that is beyond the scope of his permissible review, and beyond the scope of his rulings.

But let's put that aside -- your post really does make me shake my head. You're acting like Brady got off on some hypertechnicality. The problems with the NFL's system is fundamentally this -- Goodell does whatever the hell he wants. That's not at "system". It's not fundamentally fair that he makes up rules that applies to players (which never did before), and then imposes punishments on them that are a million times more harsh than anything ever done before.

That's not "Brady got off on a technicality", that's "the NFL's system is ****ed".

The NFL CAN punish players for breaking rules. It just needs a better PROCESS. One that NOTIFIES players what they can and cannot do, and what the potential punishments are for it.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

Good idea, we're not a judge, we can use the gift of common sense to see things for what they are, you're bullshit only works with Pats fans and judges that have had their common sense gene cut out.

But have a great season, you're the Pats, there's no way you won't.

Unless of course Brady goes DOWN in one of the games that he would have been serving his suspension. If that were to happen, I'd know for sure that there's a God and my liife would completely change. After I laughed my ass off for about a week...