***Official 2015 STL Cardinals Thread III.***

[BigRedChief]

2011 World Series Championship
2012 NLCS. One win from another WS appearance.
2013 World Series. Two wins from another World Series Championship
2014 NLCS. Three wins from another WS appearance
2015 Central Division title. Won 100 games. Lost in the NLDS.

• Made the postseason 11 times in the last 15 seasons.
• Only 1 losing season since 2000.
• Reached the World Series 4 times since 2004 and won as many championships (two) the past eight seasons as it did from 1965 to 2005.
• Made the NLCS 9 times including the last 4 years 2011-2014
• Three million attendance? Take it to the bank.
• 65 post season wins since 2004. 22+ wins more than any other team.

[Marco Polo]

It's now saying Cards are closing in on Leake. Hope it's no more than four years. Do we then make a trade for a bat? I would prefer to sign Upton or Cespedes.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Marco Polo

It's now saying Cards are closing in on Leake. Hope it's no more than four years. Do we then make a trade for a bat? I would prefer to sign Upton or Cespedes.

It's gonna take 5 for the Cardinals to get him because he wanted to be on the west coast.

So they're going to overpay for a 4th starter all because they don't want to give up a draft pick. Then they'll end up using the draft pick on a player they'll end up trading to the Indians for some washed up 'bounce back' candidate.

Honestly, if they don't end up trading Weaver for Napoli in July I'll be stunned.

[O.city]

I've always liked Leake.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by O.city

I've always liked Leake.

If the Cardinals get him you better hope you aren't getting the nearly 5 FIP pitcher from the Giants for 5 years.

[jd1020]

Source: Leake deal with Cardinals expected to be in 5-year, $75M range and could include an option.

— Chris Cotillo (@ChrisCotillo) December 22, 2015

Source: #STLCards in agreement with Leake, pending a physical.

— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) December 22, 2015

Big contract for a mid rotation at best starter.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by jd1020

Source: Leake deal with Cardinals expected to be in 5-year, $75M range and could include an option.

— Chris Cotillo (@ChrisCotillo) December 22, 2015

Source: #STLCards in agreement with Leake, pending a physical.

— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) December 22, 2015

Big contract for a mid rotation at best starter.

Could be worse; could've guaranteed an average hitter $26 million/season for 3 seasons with a nice little $105 million insurance policy tacked onto the back of it.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Could be worse; could've guaranteed an average hitter $26 million/season for 3 seasons with a nice little $105 million insurance policy tacked onto the back of it.

At least Heyward is the best at something, and he wont be tasked with driving in runs in the middle of the lineup like the Cardinals had him doing. Leake has 1 year where he had a FIP under 4 (3.88).

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

I've always liked Leake.

Why?

He's a righthanded junkballer. He's exactly the kind of guy that the Cubs will massacre. With Rizzo, Schwarber and yes, even Heyward, they have lefthanded bats that will feast on a slop tossing righty who doesn't have an out pitch.

Seriously, that's the lens you need to put this in: Can Jason Heyward hit this guy. If the answer is yes, then you shouldn't be signing him because it takes a special sort of player for Jason Heyward to be able to actually hit him with authority.

What is it in Leake's entire profile that makes you like him? The guy's not even good enough to be an innings eater; he gets knocked out of games too often to be a true 200 inning starter. He can't strike anyone out and the defense he'll have backing him in STL will have precisely zero plus fielders. Count 'em - none.

This is a bad signing that Mo's only making because he's decided that he's going to hoard draft picks. Which is unfortunate as I'm not convinced he's actually worth a shit at drafting; pretty sure it was Luhnow that did all the legwork there.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by jd1020

At least Heyward is the best at something, and he wont be tasked with driving in runs in the middle of the lineup like the Cardinals had him doing. Leake has 1 year where he had a FIP under 4 (3.88).

Well shit, for $26 million/season I'd hope he'd have at least one premier skill.

I suppose you guys still intend to get a CFer? Because if you're playing Heyward in center, you're going to get Dexter Fowler with less power and a stronger arm for your troubles. Have fun with that.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Well shit, for $26 million/season I'd hope he'd have at least one premier skill.

I suppose you guys still intend to get a CFer? Because if you're playing Heyward in center, you're going to get Dexter Fowler with less power and a stronger arm for your troubles. Have fun with that.

Fowler definitely doesn't have more power than Heyward. And Heyward is a much better defender. He's an upgrade all around from Fowler, even base running which was suppose to be one of Fowlers strong suits. The Cubs will miss out on slightly more walks taken. I'm sure they won't miss Fowler.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Why?

He's a righthanded junkballer. He's exactly the kind of guy that the Cubs will massacre. With Rizzo, Schwarber and yes, even Heyward, they have lefthanded bats that will feast on a slop tossing righty who doesn't have an out pitch.

Seriously, that's the lens you need to put this in: Can Jason Heyward hit this guy. If the answer is yes, then you shouldn't be signing him because it takes a special sort of player for Jason Heyward to be able to actually hit him with authority.

What is it in Leake's entire profile that makes you like him? The guy's not even good enough to be an innings eater; he gets knocked out of games too often to be a true 200 inning starter. He can't strike anyone out and the defense he'll have backing him in STL will have precisely zero plus fielders. Count 'em - none.

This is a bad signing that Mo's only making because he's decided that he's going to hoard draft picks. Which is unfortunate as I'm not convinced he's actually worth a shit at drafting; pretty sure it was Luhnow that did all the legwork there.

I always thought he was good in the central. Dunno, just the eye test, never gave enough shit to loon at numbers.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by jd1020

Fowler definitely doesn't have more power than Heyward. And Heyward is a much better defender. He's an upgrade all around from Fowler, even base running which was suppose to be one of Fowlers strong suits.

Fowler doesn't have more power potential than Heyward, but Heyward hasn't shown an ability to routinely drive the baseball for 2 seasons.

If you guys can unlock him, you're absolutely right. But all you really need to do is watch him take a warmup swing. If he's standing in the on-deck circle and still doing fence drills then you'll know that the guy still can't hit for shit.

It'll take one spring AB to know if you're going to get more XBH or a better ISO from Heyward than you got from Fowler. At this point, I give it a 50/50 shot at best.

That said, if you do, then you'll get WAY more because if someone completely tore apart Heyward's swing and rebuilt it from the ground up, they'd have a potential 30 HR player on their hands. The guys natural power is absurd, he just does more than any player I've ever seen to sabotage himself. It really is ridiculous.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Fowler doesn't have more power potential than Heyward, but Heyward hasn't shown an ability to routinely drive the baseball for 2 seasons.

If you guys can unlock him, you're absolutely right. But all you really need to do is watch him take a warmup swing. If he's standing in the on-deck circle and still doing fence drills then you'll know that the guy still can't hit for shit.

It'll take one spring AB to know if you're going to get more XBH or a better ISO from Heyward than you got from Fowler. At this point, I give it a 50/50 shot at best.

That said, if you do, then you'll get WAY more because if someone completely tore apart Heyward's swing and rebuilt it from the ground up, they'd have a potential 30 HR player on their hands. The guys natural power is absurd, he just does more than any player I've ever seen to sabotage himself. It really is ridiculous.

They don't have to "unlock" Heyward for him to have more power than Fowler.

Just look at their SLG%. Heywards was 28 points higher last season. His OPS+ was 9 points higher.

He's a better hitter than Fowler, plain and simple. Fowler just walks more.

[jd1020]

Source: Leake deal is five years, $80M with mutual option that could increase total value to $93M/$94M range.

— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) December 22, 2015

And, as previously reported, Leake’s deal with #STLCards includes full no-trade clause.

— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) December 22, 2015

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by jd1020

They don't have to "unlock" Heyward for him to have more power than Fowler.

Just look at their SLG%. Heywards was 28 points higher last season. His OPS+ was 9 points higher.

Heyward's was 28 points higher driven exclusively by BA - that has nothing to do with actual power.

His ISO was 15 points lower.