NFL's Best OLB: Houston vs. Miller

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Got into a debate with a Donkey fan regarding this topic earlier this week, but I love it. I think it's one that can be argued both ways, but personally I take a healthy Houston every day over a healthy Miller. Place your vote and make your own case below.

Things to keep in mind:

Justin Houston career numbers:
- 64 starts
-56 sacks (2011: 5.5 in 10 starts, 2012: 10.0 in 16 starts, 2013: 11.0 in 11 starts, 2014: 22.0 in 16 starts, 2015: 7.5 in 10 games)
- 3 interceptions
- 25 passes defensed
- 8 forced fumbles/ 5 recoveries
- 1 touchdown (INT), 1 safety
- Hasn't been flagged for anything since the 2013 season


Von Miller career numbers:
- 72 starts
- 60 sacks (2011: 11.5 in 15 starts, 2012: 18.5 in 16 starts, 2013: 5.0 in 9 starts, 2014: 14.0 in 16 starts, 2015: 11.0 in 16 starts)
- 1 interception
- 10 passes defensed
- 17 forced fumbles/ 5 recoveries
- 1 touchdown (INT), 1 touchdown (fumble recovery), 0 safeties
- Consistently penalized, often for personal fouls

For me, considering the numbers..... I still take Houston. Statistically, I can argue he's been better in every phase of the game except for forcing fumbles. Miller does have the playoff success to attribute in his argument, but Houston of course didn't hardly play in this year's playoffs. Regardless, this a fun topic no matter the time of year. So, who do you take?

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by Bambi

Football is the sport where stats mean the least.

As far as Broncos vs Chiefs players...

I'm a Chiefs fan. But I struggle to find one single position on offense or defense where I'd choose a Chiefs player over a Broncos.

They draft better and sign better free agents. Sorry if that hurts your sensitive feelings.

C'mon, there's not a single person on this board that still believes your front story. I know that it must be shameful to admit, but come out of the closet and admit that you're a Broncos fan. We have them here and you won't get banned. You'll get made fun of, but you won't get banned.

[RunKC]

Why are a lot of people praising Von for destroying New England? Their OL was horrific all year long. It's like everyone forgot that Miami almost killed the guy week 17. They even hurt him.

I don't think ivd ever seen the NFL be so bad at OL. It's truly terrible and these pass rushers are going to have higher numbers BC of it.

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by RunKC

Why are a lot of people praising Von for destroying New England? Their OL was horrific all year long. It's like everyone forgot that Miami almost killed the guy week 17. They even hurt him.

I don't think ivd ever seen the NFL be so bad at OL. It's truly terrible and these pass rushers are going to have higher numbers BC of it.

Because leading up to that game, the story was that the only reason Denver won in the regular season was that Edelman was out. With Edelman, NE was basically unbeatable and Von/Ware didn't even matter because Brady would get the ball out too quickly.

[SAGA45]

I'd take Miller over Houston. Turnovers change games and seasons and he has a clear advantage in that area. Those are Derrick Thomas-like forced fumble stats.

Miller has also been healthy and dominant when his team needed him most...the postseason. Houston has now twice entered the postseason banged up...Elbow in 2013.....knee in 2015. Somehow he finished his contract year in good health.

Both are beasts and are quite complete vs pass and run. But I give Miller the edge due to his ability to create turnover opportunities and his dominance on the big stage.

Miller also brings a throwback type of tone-setting nastiness and bad guy presence that any historically dominant defense needs....especially from arguably the unit's best player. For me that's a huge bonus and another reason I give Miller the nod over Houston.

[O.city]

Well, save for the postseason he missed due to injury, yes, you're correct

[Easy 6]

Originally Posted by Bambi

Football is the sport where stats mean the least.

As far as Broncos vs Chiefs players...

I'm a Chiefs fan. But I struggle to find one single position on offense or defense where I'd choose a Chiefs player over a Broncos.

They draft better and sign better free agents. Sorry if that hurts your sensitive feelings.

Even turds look down their noses at you

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19

No, no, I get it, you're measuring percentage of games in which he had at least a single sack. It's cool.

But what I'm saying is Houston sacks the quarterback at a higher rate than Miller when considering rush attempts or games started. Also cool.

I don't like sacks per game (or per start) because it can be affected in a huge way by a few games. Aldon Smith, for example, had an otherwordly sack/game rate for a while because he had one game where he had 5.5 sacks against a terrible OL. Having huge games against bad teams is a great way to make a name for yourself, but I think being a consistent performer benefits the team more.

[BigMeatballDave]

Originally Posted by RunKC

Why are a lot of people praising Von for destroying New England? Their OL was horrific all year long. It's like everyone forgot that Miami almost killed the guy week 17. They even hurt him.

I don't think ivd ever seen the NFL be so bad at OL. It's truly terrible and these pass rushers are going to have higher numbers BC of it.

Yeah, but this kinda makes the Chiefs D look like ass.

[BigMeatballDave]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

IMO, Houston is more of a well-rounded OLB that can also rush the passer. Miller is an excellent pass rush specialist and game changer.

I'd be happy to have either or both on my team but if I'm asked to choose or compare, Houston is Kevin Greene and Miller is Lawrence Taylor.

Neither is a bad choice.

Good take.

[DaFace]

Originally Posted by BigMeatballDave

Yeah, but this kinda makes the Chiefs D look like ass.

Yep. It's the same issue when you say "Team X hasn't played any good teams" or "Team Y has lost every game against a good team this year." ALL TEAMS play shitty teams. You're SUPPOSED to win those games, and very few manage to beat all the GOOD teams on their schedule.

Same deal here. You can discount Von's performance against the Pats, sure, but Houston's been invisible for a handful of games against shitty OL as well (and I'm sure Von has too).

Dominant games are dominant games, regardless of who they're up against.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by Easy 6

Even turds look down their noses at you

What kind of freaky sentient anthropomorphic turds are you trafficking in?

[Dinny Bossa Nova]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

What kind of freaky sentient anthropomorphic turds are you trafficking in?

I was with you up to freaky.

Dinny

[manchambo]

Originally Posted by Shaid

Pretty much the only reason a defensive player gets a SB MVP is when the offense is completely inept or that player makes a single play that's huge in the game. The Denver offense was inept and the sack/fumble was a big play in the game. He should have gotten the MVP. Guaranteed though that if Manning had a relatively decent game(threw a couple TDs, etc.), it would have gone to him. That's just the nature of the league and how they consistently award it.

A single game performance doesn't throw everything else out the window though.

Which sack/fumble was a big play in the game? There were two of them.

Miller had one of the most dominant postseason games by a defender ever. And he did it twice, once in the AFC Championship, again in the Superbowl.

[Easy 6]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

What kind of freaky sentient anthropomorphic turds are you trafficking in?

The kind Bambi sees when he looks up into a mirror

[BigMeatballDave]

Originally Posted by Easy 6

The kind Bambi sees when he looks up into a mirror