Any fishkeepers here? Saltwater or freshwater

[Silock]

I'm looking at starting up a saltwater tank. Is there a good fish store in the KC area without driving out to Lawrence?

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Holladay

Have you heard about over population with cichlids?

Ohh, yeah. Back when I first started out I got pretty overzealous and ended up with a tank with too many fish getting way too big for a 55, with an overcluttered tank, which resulted in all of them getting stressed out and killing each other. Tough but important lesson. These days I'm very careful about the number of fish, how big they could potentially get, and how well I could provide shelter enough for all of them to feel safe. The more comfortable they are, the less stressed they are, the brighter colors they will display. A stressed tank can get ugly. It's always a delicate balance...

[Holladay]

I’ve got a customer who has 25+ tanks in their small 2 bedroom house. Several of the smaller tanks were exactly for the above reasons. Medical, birth isolation, etc. Let’s just say getting cable around some of these tanks was a challenge

I can't imagine the maintenance on a bunch of small tanks. Let alone trying to cable around them.

A 10g tank weighs 83.29 lbs. Assuming small tanks x 25 is a ton...2000 lbs. Jeesh. I got yard work to do and a ton of other things to do. They might have a problem.

[Holladay]

how big they could potentially get,

The optimal fish length is 2" per gallon.

how well I could provide shelter enough for all of them to feel safe

Agreed.

When I say "over populated" is a good thing to a degree. If there are too many, yes, you found out the hard way. Too few, they are territorial and will park in their spots.

The idea is to have a fine balance to where there is too many ie. and have to run around and chase the offenders off therefore can't establish a roosting spot. This adds more movement and little bullies. They are constantly running around.

I have been a big fan of over population, to a degree. Look at some articles.

[Holladay]

Another issue. Can you imagine a tank with an Oscar and Giant Danios? Or zebras? Some Jack Dempseys and Paradise fish? Silver Dollars and Malawis? Neon's and cichlids? Red Devils and with any of the above?

I have had impossible tanks mixtures. It is how you raise them. No fresh food and they grow up together. They are buddies. My Oscar was a puddy cat. Very intelligent. I came into the room, he was wagging is tail at the front of the tank wanting attention. He was living with minnows (danios, zebras)

I introduced him when he was young. The others were all adult. Same with the rest of my tanks.

[Holladay]

Last point.

People don't think fish aren't intelligent. They are. I have trained fish to jump out of my tank. They follow my hand. I have yet to have them let me stroke their sides (gotten close). Some Oscars, trained correctly, will shove a ping pong ball threw hoops and put them in goals. I don't have time to try that.

This was interesting. The laser pointers that you play with cats/dogs. I was playing with the cats and thought, what the heck, and pointed it into the tank. Dang the upside down cats, the danio, the sliver dollars, the dempesys, the parrot nose cichlids were all chase the laser pointer

Plecos didn't give a crap

Not as much as a cat or dog crazy, but were stimulated by it. Funny.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Holladay

Another issue. Can you imagine a tank with an Oscar and Giant Danios? Or zebras? Some Jack Dempseys and Paradise fish? Silver Dollars and Malawis? Neon's and cichlids? Red Devils and with any of the above?

I have had impossible tanks mixtures. It is how you raise them. No fresh food and they grow up together. They are buddies. My Oscar was a puddy cat. Very intelligent. I came into the room, he was wagging is tail at the front of the tank wanting attention. He was living with minnows (danios, zebras)

I introduced him when he was young. The others were all adult. Same with the rest of my tanks.

It definitely depends on the fish in particular. Like I posted in the video a few pages up, I used to have a Jack Dempsey that was probably 6" in a 55gal with a bunch of other cichlids and a huge angel. That Jack was actually the peacekeeper of the entire tank. He just requireed his own nice big shady rock nest to dominate, and he was happy. He would straight up go out and break up fights between other fish, it was pretty funny.

But every tank is different. You just have to find that balance...

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Holladay

Last point.

People don't think fish aren't intelligent. They are. I have trained fish to jump out of my tank. They follow my hand. I have yet to have them let me stroke their sides (gotten close). Some Oscars, trained correctly, will shove a ping pong ball threw hoops and put them in goals. I don't have time to try that.

This was interesting. The laser pointers that you play with cats/dogs. I was playing with the cats and thought, what the heck, and pointed it into the tank. Dang the upside down cats, the danio, the sliver dollars, the dempesys, the parrot nose cichlids were all chase the laser pointer

Plecos didn't give a crap

Not as much as a cat or dog crazy, but were stimulated by it. Funny.

They are much more intelligent than people give them credit for. They each definitely develop their own personality for sure. The older they get, the more so. Some are grumpy and more agreesive. Some are cool and laid back. It's crazy seeing the difference in a fry once they get big enough to show some personality...

Plecos on the other hand, I don't think they've ever evolved enough to understand much past "Smell something, try to eat it." They haven't changed much in millions of years..

[Holladay]

Never heard of a referee fish. That is so cool. They surprise me all the time.

[eDave]

Originally Posted by Holladay

Last point.

People don't think fish aren't intelligent. They are. I have trained fish to jump out of my tank. They follow my hand. I have yet to have them let me stroke their sides (gotten close). Some Oscars, trained correctly, will shove a ping pong ball threw hoops and put them in goals. I don't have time to try that.

This was interesting. The laser pointers that you play with cats/dogs. I was playing with the cats and thought, what the heck, and pointed it into the tank. Dang the upside down cats, the danio, the sliver dollars, the dempesys, the parrot nose cichlids were all chase the laser pointer

Plecos didn't give a crap

Not as much as a cat or dog crazy, but were stimulated by it. Funny.

I had a fancy goldfish that I rescued from a very small, and very green bowl that just loved me. She too would breach and knew I was teaching her to breach through a hoop but we didn't get there before she died. I used to run from side to side of the tank and she would swim fast to meet me every time. Could pet her too and she did loops for me. Bubbles sometimes. It was amazing and hit hard when she died. I haven't had a tank since. This bump has me thinking about it again.

[Holladay]

That buddy in Overland park, was cleaning his Discus tank. He had a porous rock that he put into a bucket. An hour later, or so, he noticed that he couldn't find his small pleco. He looked in the bucket, found the pleco, tossed him in the tank and presto, pleco ran around.

Yes, pre historic. After the A bomb, cockroaches and plecos will still be around.

[Fish]

[eDave]

Originally Posted by Holladay

That buddy in Overland park, was cleaning his Discus tank. He had a porous rock that he put into a bucket. An hour later, or so, he noticed that he couldn't find his small pleco. He looked in the bucket, found the pleco, tossed him in the tank and presto, pleco ran around.

Yes, pre historic. After the A bomb, cockroaches and plecos will still be around.

And Keith Richards.

Hayo!

[Holladay]

I had a fancy goldfish

I never had a gold fish. I wouldn't have thought that they were that intelligent. I just had feeder goldfish that I put in my Snakehead, Clownknife, Piranha 55g tank in college and let them connect the dots.

We would place bets in how fast they would last.

I find it interesting and enlightening that a gold fish would form a bond with you.

Funny how fish work. Not surprising though. They are totally mis-understood.

[eDave]

She sucked on my finger too and I could hand feed her. At my lake house, we had Coy (goldfish) and they were pretty smart. I enjoyed emptying a bag of catfood and watch them go wild. Like pirana's in a pirana movie. Do it too much though and they will never leave and then the entire yard and house smells like Coy shit at dusk.

Honestly, there's never been an animal (for lack of a better all emcompassing term) that wasn't drawn to me.

[Fish]

There's definitely an intelligence difference between fish just like every other species. Lots of dumb ones that manage to evolve from stupid luck and abundance. And a select few absolutely beautiful species who manage to continue existence only because of aquarium breeders in spite of insane evolutionary challenges, end up gaining some seriously beautiful exotic colors because of it.