Bailey Rumors

[tk13]

Originally Posted by munkey

Not to be a D!ck but what do you know about football?

When I have ever said I know anything about football? I don't proclaim to be some kind of expert in football. I'm an armchair QB like 95% of the people here. What does anyone here really know about football? I'd say not enough, that's why I've pretty much gone along Dick Vermeil's decision-making with the organization... I think I have a pretty good record of doing that. The only thing I'd say I'd have any kind of expertise from a technical standpoint is basketball, I have experience there, but that does me no good here.

The real question is what gives you any right to question my football knowledge but no one else's. Last time I checked nobody on this board had been hired for any front office position in the National Football League. Except for possibly KCTitus, I think he's Denny Thum in disguise. I don't really get the point of asking someone about why they should be talking football on a forum designed for such, but whatever, I guess we can go talk politics or something.

[munkey]

Originally Posted by tk13

I don't really get the point of asking someone about why they should be talking football on a forum designed for such, but whatever, I guess we can go talk politics or something.

I'm just responding to your remark about why the corners had nothing to do with run support.

Just a question (henceforth the D!ck remark) not a putdown.

Have a beer bud....

I am....

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by munkey

I'm just responding to your remark about why the corners had nothing to do with run support.

Just a question (henceforth the D!ck remark) not a putdown.

Have a beer bud....

I am....

I think that's got more to do with GROB's shat scheme than talent. Missing Maz hurt a lot in the running game as well. He wasn't very good in coverage, but he had a great feel for where the play was developing and a solid tackler and run stuffer.

I don't remember GROB ever having that great a run defense.

[Mr. Laz]

Originally Posted by tk13

Maybe I shouldn't have said "nothing", I guess I forgot it was most definitely McCleon and Warfield's fault Portis ran for 5 touchdowns.....

actually on one of the portis runs Vermeil SAID that Warfield took the wrong gap that led to the 60 yard portis run.


1. Good Corners can go man on man ... which allows safeties to play closer to the line of scrimmage and cover tightends

2. with safeties on tightend instead of linebackers(see shannon sharpe for 200 yards) you get better tightend coverage.

3. since the linebackers don't have to fall into coverage they can attack the line of scrimmage with run support and blitzes.

4. when we blitz with a linebacker we don't have to drop a defensive lineman into coverage because the safeties are closer to the line of scrimmage and can slider over instead.

5. that means we now have 7 defenders(4 DL,3 LB) playing the run instead of just the 4 defensive lineman. Just the numbers alone will clog more lanes and improve the run defense.



all these things started with better corner coverage


not to mention the 140 tackles the cornerback got on our team last year

[BigChiefFan]

Originally Posted by lazarus

actually on one of the portis runs Vermeil SAID that Warfield took the wrong gap and that leave to the 60 yard portis run.


1. Good Corners can go man on man ... which allows safeties to play closer to the line of scrimmage and cover tightends

2. with safeties on tightend instead of linebackers(see shannon sharpe for 200 yards) you get better tightend coverage.

3. since the linebackers don't have to fall into coverage they can attack the line of scrimmage with run support and blitzes.

4. when we blitz with a linebacker we don't have to drop a defensive lineman into coverage because the safeties are closer to the line of scrimmage and can slider over instead.

5. that means we now have 7 defenders(4 DL,3 LB) playing the run instead of just the 4 defensive lineman. Just the numbers alone will clog more lanes and improve the run defense.



all these things started with better corner coverage


not to mention the 140 tackles the cornerback got on our team last year

Great post!! A cover corner in Gunther's scheme is a must.Some think McCleon can fill in.I agree that McCleon had a very good year,but he is not the big cover corner that Gunther covets and will most likely become the nickleback or the FS if Woods isn't retained.McCleon is NOT the answer in a GUNTHER D.

[tk13]

I don't know why everyone's attacking me, I don't disagree with a single thing that's been said here. I said I shouldn't have said they had "no impact", we all know better than that. I don't think Champ Bailey or anybody would've mattered in that Denver game because that defense couldn't stop things when they absolutely knew what was coming over the last 2 years. I've said 350 million times I don't think any of that is a problem anymore and that we would be serviceable now just because of a coaching change. I agree with a lot of what's being said here, I was just making a remark regarding how everyone was complaining because we weren't looking at FA's supposedly and how the front office just didn't care and now the tune had changed somewhat. Instead, one little statement out of my post that I could care less about gets turned into some huge deal... it's like I'm running for President.

[munkey]

Originally Posted by tk13

it's like I'm running for President.

As what?

Democrat, Republican or Independant?

Be specific...

[TRR]

I'd rather sign Troy Vincent, who is still a Pro Bowl CB, for cheap, than have to pony up tons of dough for Bailey plus give up at least 2 very high draft picks.

Troy Vincent is still a very special CB even at his age. Whoever compared Ray Crockett to Troy Vincent doesn't have a clue.

[Logical]

Originally Posted by TRR

I'd rather sign Troy Vincent, who is still a Pro Bowl CB, for cheap, than have to pony up tons of dough for Bailey plus give up at least 2 very high draft picks.

Troy Vincent is still a very special CB even at his age. Whoever compared Ray Crockett to Troy Vincent doesn't have a clue.

30th in the draft is not a very high draft pick. Who knows where we will pick next year but hopefully even lower.

[BigChiefFan]

Originally Posted by TRR

I'd rather sign Troy Vincent, who is still a Pro Bowl CB, for cheap, than have to pony up tons of dough for Bailey plus give up at least 2 very high draft picks.

Troy Vincent is still a very special CB even at his age. Whoever compared Ray Crockett to Troy Vincent doesn't have a clue.

You have to look at the value of the pick.Picking at 30 overall,there is no way we will get a player that caliber of Bailey.Trading up to get a potential player that great costs picks.If it only costs a 1st rounder and a 3rd,why in the Hell WOULDN'T we go after him?Like I said earlier, to me it's not the draft picks,because that works in our favor,but the money that is the sticking point.Even the money IMO, is only an obstacle if we aren't willing to pay him what he's worth.Give him more in a signing bonus and guarantee some money for him.He's absolutely worth it.I respect your opinion but Troy Vincent
is on the down-side of his career and Bailey is just coming into his prime.It's like comparing night and day,IMO.

[TRR]

I said the same thing earlier. It's not the draft picks, it's the money he's going to command. I am really doubtful that we can sign Bailey and re-up Tait, Woods, Dunn, Hicks, and Bartee, although the last 2 can walk as far as I am concerned.

At this point, I would rather keep Tait, Woods and Dunn, and sign either Taylor or Vincent than give away 2 picks and all of our cap space. My opinion changes though if Bailey wouldn't want to stick it to us cap wise. That being said, I doubt the Redskins will pick our offer over the 4 or 5 other teams interested in Champ Bailey. As you said, the value of our picks aren't that good.

[Logical]

Originally Posted by TRR

I said the same thing earlier. It's not the draft picks, it's the money he's going to command. I am really doubtful that we can sign Bailey and re-up Tait, Woods, Dunn, Hicks, and Bartee, although the last 2 can walk as far as I am concerned.

At this point, I would rather keep Tait, Woods and Dunn, and sign either Taylor or Vincent than give away 2 picks and all of our cap space. My opinion changes though if Bailey wouldn't want to stick it to us cap wise. That being said, I doubt the Redskins will pick our offer over the 4 or 5 other teams interested in Champ Bailey. As you said, the value of our picks aren't that good.

I really do not care if we resign Woods and I do not want to resign Bartee. Hicks at a reasonable price is fine. So I think we can find a way to make him fit. I just do not believe Carl will.