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Old 04-07-2006, 06:52 PM  
Dr. Johnny Fever Dr. Johnny Fever is offline
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The "Curse of Denkinger?"
I've been thinking, with all of the curse talk over the last several years in baseball.... the bambino... the billy goat... could it be the the Royals are strapped with "the curse of Denkinger?"

We all know Jorge Orta was out at first in game six of the '85 WS. We also know how that call changed the entire momentum of the series in the Royals favor. Yes, Orta was thrown out trying to go from first to third later that inning and never scored, therefor not really having any impact on the game. But no one can deny how it turned the tide when Denkinger called him safe. We celebrated. We experienced joy and rapture. Then we went forward.

Two winning seasons I think since. Bad moves by the front office. Bad players on the field. Even many of the "good" free agents we've gotten have turned into busts once they put on the blue and white uni's. Gonzalez, Knoblach, Neifi Perez even bounced back after leaving KC. Our good young players always become stars elsewhere. Our good young players who stick around after having initial success... Berroa, Jose Rosado, Ken Harvey, etc., fall to the wayside soon after making a name for themselves.

So I ask you Royals bretheren... are we saddled with "the Curse of Denkinger?"

Or do we just plain suck?
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Old 04-07-2006, 09:23 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins
To all those people implicating the Cards for losing the series, you have a strong point--the Cards batted .143 for the series, which is the lowest of any team in any 7 game series in WS history. However, there are certain things that happen that absolutely crush any form of momentum that you have, and Denkinger's call did that. Were the Cards a truly transcendent team that could overcome such a thing? No. But were they the better team in that Series...well yes.
Andujar's meltdown in game 7 didn't help you any. It could be argued that that was more of a factor than a blown call at first.
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Old 04-07-2006, 09:25 PM   #32
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Water under the bridge....If it did anything to allow umpires to huddle and review calls, maybe it was worth it....Maybe not. Still no instant replay call reversals.
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Old 04-07-2006, 09:25 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamTheIrish
It's not the curse of Denkinger.

It's the curse of of the death of Mr. K.

The curse of the life of owners like Steinbrenner who pony up money and drive up the price of even the most mediocre players.

Of all the bad things that have happened to the Royals, losing Kaufman left the biggest void.
A'men to that. Ewing Kauffman barely ever made a proffit from the Royals. He shelled out as much money as possible because he loved the game. When he died, the heart of Royals followed right behind him.
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Old 04-07-2006, 09:27 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tk13
It wasn't just the death of Mr. K... it was the fact that it took 7 freaking years for the "committee" to find an owner. There were 7 years between Mr. K dying and Glass becoming the owner... and Glass was already Mr. K's right hand man and chairman of the board, whatever position was 2nd behind Mr. K. By the time Glass officially took over, the team was in shambles and had no direction. It's taken all this time to get our ducks in a row.
Again...I'd argue we took the dive when we lost our competant GM:

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Old 04-07-2006, 09:28 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowser
Andujar's meltdown in game 7 didn't help you any. It could be argued that that was more of a factor than a blown call at first.
Except that most of us Cards fans believe that 'blow up' was directly caused by that horrible call.
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Old 04-07-2006, 09:29 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach
If you're referring to that "c*ocksucking sonofabitch" as Denkinger, then you're really bitter. Sure Denkinger's call was wrong, but the Cardinals made a number of mistakes that enabled the Royals to stay in the game and win.

1. Denkinger's call.

2. Next at-bat, Clark misplayed a foul pop-up by batter Steve Balboni. Instead of popping out, Balboni singled on the next pitch, and Onix Concepcion came in to pinch-run.

3. With runners on first and second, Jim Sundberg then bunted into a force play at third.

4. Catcher Darrell Porter then allowed a passed ball, allowing the runners to advance to second and third. Pinch-hitter Hal McRae was intentionally walked to load the bases.

5. Dane Iorg knocked a bloop single to right that scored Concepcion and Sundberg, who avoided Porter's tag at the plate to score the winning run.

Basically, the Cardinals self-destructed, not only becuase of the wrong-call, but their inability to ignore that incident and focus the game.

And since the Royals won game six, there WAS a game seven, that I guess the Cardinals forgot to show up.
Its so funny trying to argue with a Cardinals fan about that game, becaue they are so biased about it... They feel they got robbed, but they had every chance to get the outs. They're the ones that screwed themselves, because they were all whiney about it and seemed to not care about it anymore. so they whined about it after the game and still do, just to try to make themselves feel better.
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Old 04-07-2006, 09:31 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins
Except that most of us Cards fans believe that 'blow up' was directly caused by that horrible call.
They shouldnt have allowed themselves to act childish like that then. Grown men get over it and move on to the next play.
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Old 04-07-2006, 09:33 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawkerman2001
Its so funny trying to argue with a Cardinals fan about that game, becaue they are so biased about it... They feel they got robbed, but they had every chance to get the outs. They're the ones that screwed themselves, because they were all whiney about it and seemed to not care about it anymore. so they whined about it after the game and still do, just to try to make themselves feel better.
Are you on crack?? I'm not being confrontational or stubborn at all--I've acknowledged all of these things and I think that they point to one overarching flaw and that is a lack of composure. With that being said, I think that it is highly arguable that the Cardinals would have won that series had that call been correct. I'm not saying the Cards didn't have a chance to win after that--they did and they failed. However, I do believe had that call been different, we would have won. Porter, Clarck, Andujar, Whitey's blowup--these are all valid critiques--but they never happen without that call.
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Old 04-07-2006, 09:36 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins
Are you on crack?? I'm not being confrontational or stubborn at all--I've acknowledged all of these things and I think that they point to one overarching flaw and that is a lack of composure. With that being said, I think that it is highly arguable that the Cardinals would have won that series had that call been correct. I'm not saying the Cards didn't have a chance to win after that--they did and they failed. However, I do believe had that call been different, we would have won. Porter, Clarck, Andujar, Whitey's blowup--these are all valid critiques--but they never happen without that call.
A championship team has composure. The Cardinals didn't. They lost.


Period.
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Old 04-07-2006, 09:36 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins
Are you on crack?? I'm not being confrontational or stubborn at all--I've acknowledged all of these things and I think that they point to one overarching flaw and that is a lack of composure. With that being said, I think that it is highly arguable that the Cardinals would have won that series had that call been correct. I'm not saying the Cards didn't have a chance to win after that--they did and they failed. However, I do believe had that call been different, we would have won. Porter, Clarck, Andujar, Whitey's blowup--these are all valid critiques--but they never happen without that call.

Ok, im sorry for going off. Just seemed like you were getting after us royals fans for that call.
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Old 04-07-2006, 09:37 PM   #41
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Mizzou could have still beaten Nebraska in 97 even if the kicked ball play happened, but they didn't. However, I think that Missouri was screwed out of that game by a terrible call. Could they have still won in OT?? Absolutely. But they didn't, and it is easy to point to that call as the prime reason why.
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Old 04-07-2006, 09:37 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins
Except that most of us Cards fans believe that 'blow up' was directly caused by that horrible call.
Yep.

But it was a monumental two game collapse. They had their ace on the hill in game 7 and he went Manson after getting yanked by the Rat.
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Old 04-07-2006, 09:39 PM   #43
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Nice reliving the glory days (again).

But I do wish I could see some championship baseball w/o having to go to another big league city.

It's kind of depressing.
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Old 04-07-2006, 09:40 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawkerman2001
Ok, im sorry for going off. Just seemed like you were getting after us royals fans for that call.
If the shoe were on the other foot I would probably be supporting the Royals just as ardently as you are, so I don't hold any grudges against you guys. You took advantage of a great break. My only venom was directed at Denkinger, or "that c*cksucking sonofabitch" as I referred to him earlier.
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Old 04-07-2006, 09:43 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tk13
A championship team has composure. The Cardinals didn't. They lost.


Period.
Yeah. the lost it after 'the call' things were never the same.

Composure. Lots of things going on then.

Glad to see the Cards playing good ball on a yearly basis. Now.

I think LaRussa's days are numbered. He better bring home a WS soon.
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