Posnanski: HOF voters are stupid... - Page 4

DaWolf · 02-06-2007, 02:17 AM

I suggest we ask Peter King to respond to this...

JOE POSNANSKI COMMENTARY
GIVE HIM HIS DUE
Pro Football Hall of Fame voters’ perceptions are clouded when it comes to Derrick Thomas

MIAMI | There probably are worse ways to pick pro football hall of famers than by locking 40 wildly diverse sportswriters and broadcasters in a room and having them fight it out to the death. For instance: Having sportswriters throw darts at a dartboard with players’ names on it … that would be a worse way.

A “Wheel of Hall of Fame Fortune” game show — that would be worse.

OK, that’s all I can come up with.

Saturday afternoon, the 40-man party crew known as the Pro Football Hall of Fame selection committee batted things around and again passed on Derrick Thomas. That makes three years running, and it’s now becoming apparent that Thomas may never get selected for the Hall of Fame. This seemed as if it would be his year. The ballot was thin. The vote was in Thomas’ hometown. The time seemed right.

The group did not vote him in again, choosing instead to honor Michael Irvin, which is a whole other story. Well, the bright side there is that anyone who thinks the personal mistakes Derrick Thomas may have made in his life have something to do with the Hall of Fame can put that idea away. Michael Irvin was selected for the Hall of Fame.

Anyway. The big problem here seems to be a matter of perception. This Hall of Fame committee, for whatever reason, remains unconvinced. Some of them seem to think Derrick Thomas is a “borderline” Hall of Fame candidate. I have no idea where this idea came from — maybe his case hasn’t been presented right, or maybe committee members have spent too much time talking about his so-called weaknesses as a player, or maybe they just didn’t see him play enough because the Chiefs never reached a Super Bowl.

Maybe some of them simply slept through the 1990s.

So this needs to be written down: There is nothing borderline about Derrick Thomas’ football case. He is a slam-dunk, no-doubt, sure-as-shooting Hall of Famer. He should have gone in on the first ballot with Dan Marino and that group. He changed as many football games as any defensive player in the NFL in the 1990s. He sacked more quarterbacks, caused more fumbles, fired up more crowds, forced more bad passes and shifted more momentum than anyone else.

The idea of football is to win. The Chiefs went 110-65-1 during Derrick Thomas’ career. He was the biggest reason why they kept winning.

Look: Derrick Thomas had 126 1/2 sacks in his career before he died too young. Nobody had more in that time frame. He set the NFL record for sacks in a game with seven. He was the unquestioned leader of a Chiefs team that went to the playoffs seven times in 11 seasons (and just missed two other times). The Chiefs’ defense finished in the top half of the NFL every season but one, was in the top 10 six times and was No. 1 in the entire league twice. This guy was a dominant football player.

How dominant? He made nine Pro Bowls. Nine. In the history of the NFL, only 57 players have made nine or more Pro Bowls — and among the eligible players, only five of them are not in the Hall of Fame. No linebacker has made more than 10. Among the greatest linebackers, Dick Butkus was in eight Pro Bowls. Willie Lanier was in eight Pro Bowls. Nick Buoniconti was in eight Pro Bowls. And so on.

By the way, Michael Irvin made just five Pro Bowls, which at last check was more than his number of drug arrests, though it’s close. Thurman Thomas, another Hall of Fame choice this year, made only five Pro Bowls, too.

Oh yeah, and there has been some talk that some other pass rushers like Fred Dean, Andre Tippett and Richard Dent have created a foggy situation for Hall of Fame voters. How can you tell them apart? Well, here’s one way: Fred Dean made four Pro Bowls, Andre Tippett five and Richard Dent four. Come on. They were fine pass rushers. They were not Derrick Thomas.

Thomas was a uniquely dominating player. Every coach had to game-plan around him. Every offense had to focus on him. Every young linebacker wanted to be Derrick Thomas. And as for the knock that he was not a great “all-round” player — come on. What is an all-round football player anyway? John Elway couldn’t kick field goals. Mike Singletary couldn’t throw passes. Derrick Thomas’ job was not to cover receivers and stuff the run. His job was to get the quarterback and create havoc, and he did it with an abandon that few players in the history of the game ever matched.

And as for the idea that he was a “liability against the run,” as I heard one voter say — that’s baloney, as my father used to say. In Thomas’ 11 seasons, the Chiefs allowed more than 4 yards per rush only twice. Teams did not run the ball against the Chiefs. And then consider this: The Chiefs did not have a single other linebacker make the Pro Bowl in his career. Liability. Sheesh. Let’s just hope nobody ever again offers that stupid line.

Derrick Thomas has other credentials. He was the NFL Man of the Year. He forced 45 fumbles, recorded three safeties and scored four touchdowns. He was the player who, as much as anyone, turned Kansas City into one of the great football towns in the NFL.

But all of these are just extras. Derrick Thomas dominated professional football games. He changed professional football games. He was, post-Lawrence Taylor, the most electrifying defensive player in the NFL. I have no idea what those guys in the room said about Thomas, but Derrick Thomas is not a guy you talk about. He’s a guy you vote for without question and without hesitation. Let’s hope some people wake up.
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...s/16630797.htm

**Tribal Warfare** · 02-06-2007, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaWolf

I suggest we ask Peter King to respond to this...

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...s/16630797.htm

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...0/bears/1.html

fire away

DJJasonp · 02-06-2007, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

Well said JoPo...well said.....like someone mentioned earlier, it makes me sick that these media turds like Dr Z and Peter King hold so much clout when it comes to the HoF. Unreal....

As i said yesterday, i dont think they are intentionally biased, but they are biased due to the fact they just never saw DT play enough outside of the "big games"

I also do beleive Irvin definately deserves to be there. He was a key part of that team and always made big plays and 1st downs when it mattered most. Just like DT, if you cant see that Irvin is deserving, your just clueless.....

I'm not so sure I agree with all of this...

First off, Troy Aikman, a great offensive line, and Emmit Smith made Michael Irvin better (not the other way around).

DT made:

Neil Smith a pro-bowler
Dale Carter a pro-bowler
James Hasty a pro-bowler

etc etc.

The point I'm making is that DT made everyone else around him better....the same cannot be said for Irvin....if Michael Irvin's numbers were amassed entirely as a member of the Arizona Cardinals....Irvin doesnt work for ESPN....and Irvin doesnt make the HOF.

Deberg_1990 · 02-06-2007, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJJasonp

The point I'm making is that DT made everyone else around him better....the same cannot be said for Irvin....if Michael Irvin's numbers were amassed entirely as a member of the Arizona Cardinals....Irvin doesnt work for ESPN....and Irvin doesnt make the HOF.

You could debate "what ifs" for weeks on end.......

Sometimes i think people do too much of this to be honest..

Irvin, DT's and Monks stats speak for themselves. The voters are either over-analyzing or they really are clueless or misinformed.

Ebolapox · 02-06-2007, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

You mean like Roger Wehrli?

and it took him HOW LONG to get into the HOF?

**OnTheWarpath15** · 02-06-2007, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H5N1

and it took him HOW LONG to get into the HOF?

But he's in. According to some, DT never will because he didn't play in a SB or in a "big" market.

Halfcan · 02-06-2007, 10:51 PM

Dr Z is a worthless old c#cksmoker-someone should put that old dog out of our misery.

Ebolapox · 02-06-2007, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

But he's in. According to some, DT never will because he didn't play in a SB or in a "big" market.

oh, I agree with you... I still think that, given an off year and probably 30 years in the future, guys like TD and priest will make it (if the veteran's committee is still alive and kicking)... the travesty with DT's possible enshrinement is he should have been a first or second ballot guy, not an also-ran who hardly nobody remembers (roger wierhli) that took forever to get into the hall

ChiefFan31 · 02-07-2007, 02:01 AM

That is a good article by JoPo.

And I too am not so sure how I feel about a group of sportswriters voting, and more importantly, controlling who is elected into the Hall and who is not.

It should be a combo. DT needs to get in soon...

Direckshun · 02-07-2007, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJJasonp

I'm not so sure I agree with all of this...

First off, Troy Aikman, a great offensive line, and Emmit Smith made Michael Irvin better (not the other way around).

DT made:

Neil Smith a pro-bowler
Dale Carter a pro-bowler
James Hasty a pro-bowler

etc etc.

The point I'm making is that DT made everyone else around him better....the same cannot be said for Irvin....if Michael Irvin's numbers were amassed entirely as a member of the Arizona Cardinals....Irvin doesnt work for ESPN....and Irvin doesnt make the HOF.

Direckshun · 02-07-2007, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halfcan

Dr Z is a worthless old c#cksmoker-someone should put that old dog out of our misery.

02-06-2007, 02:17 AM
DaWolf Cry havoc... Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10007725	Posnanski: HOF voters are stupid... I suggest we ask Peter King to respond to this... JOE POSNANSKI COMMENTARY GIVE HIM HIS DUE Pro Football Hall of Fame voters’ perceptions are clouded when it comes to Derrick Thomas MIAMI \| There probably are worse ways to pick pro football hall of famers than by locking 40 wildly diverse sportswriters and broadcasters in a room and having them fight it out to the death. For instance: Having sportswriters throw darts at a dartboard with players’ names on it … that would be a worse way. A “Wheel of Hall of Fame Fortune” game show — that would be worse. OK, that’s all I can come up with. Saturday afternoon, the 40-man party crew known as the Pro Football Hall of Fame selection committee batted things around and again passed on Derrick Thomas. That makes three years running, and it’s now becoming apparent that Thomas may never get selected for the Hall of Fame. This seemed as if it would be his year. The ballot was thin. The vote was in Thomas’ hometown. The time seemed right. The group did not vote him in again, choosing instead to honor Michael Irvin, which is a whole other story. Well, the bright side there is that anyone who thinks the personal mistakes Derrick Thomas may have made in his life have something to do with the Hall of Fame can put that idea away. Michael Irvin was selected for the Hall of Fame. Anyway. The big problem here seems to be a matter of perception. This Hall of Fame committee, for whatever reason, remains unconvinced. Some of them seem to think Derrick Thomas is a “borderline” Hall of Fame candidate. I have no idea where this idea came from — maybe his case hasn’t been presented right, or maybe committee members have spent too much time talking about his so-called weaknesses as a player, or maybe they just didn’t see him play enough because the Chiefs never reached a Super Bowl. Maybe some of them simply slept through the 1990s. So this needs to be written down: There is nothing borderline about Derrick Thomas’ football case. He is a slam-dunk, no-doubt, sure-as-shooting Hall of Famer. He should have gone in on the first ballot with Dan Marino and that group. He changed as many football games as any defensive player in the NFL in the 1990s. He sacked more quarterbacks, caused more fumbles, fired up more crowds, forced more bad passes and shifted more momentum than anyone else. The idea of football is to win. The Chiefs went 110-65-1 during Derrick Thomas’ career. He was the biggest reason why they kept winning. Look: Derrick Thomas had 126 1/2 sacks in his career before he died too young. Nobody had more in that time frame. He set the NFL record for sacks in a game with seven. He was the unquestioned leader of a Chiefs team that went to the playoffs seven times in 11 seasons (and just missed two other times). The Chiefs’ defense finished in the top half of the NFL every season but one, was in the top 10 six times and was No. 1 in the entire league twice. This guy was a dominant football player. How dominant? He made nine Pro Bowls. Nine. In the history of the NFL, only 57 players have made nine or more Pro Bowls — and among the eligible players, only five of them are not in the Hall of Fame. No linebacker has made more than 10. Among the greatest linebackers, Dick Butkus was in eight Pro Bowls. Willie Lanier was in eight Pro Bowls. Nick Buoniconti was in eight Pro Bowls. And so on. By the way, Michael Irvin made just five Pro Bowls, which at last check was more than his number of drug arrests, though it’s close. Thurman Thomas, another Hall of Fame choice this year, made only five Pro Bowls, too. Oh yeah, and there has been some talk that some other pass rushers like Fred Dean, Andre Tippett and Richard Dent have created a foggy situation for Hall of Fame voters. How can you tell them apart? Well, here’s one way: Fred Dean made four Pro Bowls, Andre Tippett five and Richard Dent four. Come on. They were fine pass rushers. They were not Derrick Thomas. Thomas was a uniquely dominating player. Every coach had to game-plan around him. Every offense had to focus on him. Every young linebacker wanted to be Derrick Thomas. And as for the knock that he was not a great “all-round” player — come on. What is an all-round football player anyway? John Elway couldn’t kick field goals. Mike Singletary couldn’t throw passes. Derrick Thomas’ job was not to cover receivers and stuff the run. His job was to get the quarterback and create havoc, and he did it with an abandon that few players in the history of the game ever matched. And as for the idea that he was a “liability against the run,” as I heard one voter say — that’s baloney, as my father used to say. In Thomas’ 11 seasons, the Chiefs allowed more than 4 yards per rush only twice. Teams did not run the ball against the Chiefs. And then consider this: The Chiefs did not have a single other linebacker make the Pro Bowl in his career. Liability. Sheesh. Let’s just hope nobody ever again offers that stupid line. Derrick Thomas has other credentials. He was the NFL Man of the Year. He forced 45 fumbles, recorded three safeties and scored four touchdowns. He was the player who, as much as anyone, turned Kansas City into one of the great football towns in the NFL. But all of these are just extras. Derrick Thomas dominated professional football games. He changed professional football games. He was, post-Lawrence Taylor, the most electrifying defensive player in the NFL. I have no idea what those guys in the room said about Thomas, but Derrick Thomas is not a guy you talk about. He’s a guy you vote for without question and without hesitation. Let’s hope some people wake up. http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...s/16630797.htm
Posts: 6,798

02-06-2007, 10:51 PM	#51
Halfcan In Search of a Life Join Date: Aug 2005 Casino cash: $7327995	Dr Z is a worthless old c#cksmoker-someone should put that old dog out of our misery.
Posts: 43,200

02-07-2007, 02:01 AM	#53
ChiefFan31 Keeping a close eye Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: San Diego Casino cash: $10004900	That is a good article by JoPo. And I too am not so sure how I feel about a group of sportswriters voting, and more importantly, controlling who is elected into the Hall and who is not. It should be a combo. DT needs to get in soon...
Posts: 1,596

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