Chiefs Get of Mark Castle's back! - Page 20

**pr_capone** · 11-10-2009, 01:08 AM

First and foremost... I am no Cassel apologist but I am tired of reading posts just bashing Matt left and right.

Here are the numbers. And before I get started... **** all this "garbage time" bullshit. EVERY QB in the league has garbage time stats so let's not get too wrapped up in that. It's not like teams have replaced all their starters with 2nd and 3rd stringers at the end of games on us.

This is a statistical comparison of current QB's 2nd season as full time starters. Cassel, Ryan, & Flacco's stats are projected numbers of 16 games played in a season.

Pay special attention to the TD, INT, and Sack numbers.

Completions
Cassel - 286
Ryan - 312
Flacco - 366
Brady - 373
McNabb - 285
Rivers - 277

Attempts
Cassel - 514
Ryan - 514
Flacco - 564
Brady - 601
McNabb - 493
Rivers - 460

Completion Percentage
Cassel - 55.6
Ryan - 60.9
Flacco - 64.9
Brady - 62.1
McNabb - 57.8
Rivers - 60.2

Yards
Cassel - 2871
Ryan - 3568
Flacco - 4088
Brady - 3764
McNabb - 3233
Rivers - 3152

TDs
Cassel - 23
Ryan - 26
Flacco - 24
Brady - 23
McNabb - 25
Rivers - 21

INTs
Cassel - 11
Ryan - 20
Flacco - 14
Brady - 14
McNabb - 12
Rivers - 15

Sacks
Cassel - 62
Ryan - 24
Flacco - 32
Brady - 31
McNabb - 39
Rivers - 22

What I get out of the stats.

While Cassel could certainly stand to improve his completion percentage and total yardage, he is doing a damn fine job of producing in this ****tarded offense. His completion and total yardage stats have been killed due to the fact that the man has zero time to set up and find an open receiver as shown by the sack numbers. I would love to know the number of times each QB was hurried and forced to run but if the sack numbers are any indication, Cassel would nearly double the amount of any of the QB's listed in this comparison. His mobility has likely saved him from another dozen or so sacks at the halfway mark.

People dog Cassel for being unable to throw the deep ball. Hopefully that argument was squelched a bit after the long pass to Chambers today whom he hit in stride for a TD. It is amazing what a competent QB can do when he has a bit of time and a receiver with reliable hands & a touch of speed.

Lastly, and probably of most importance for a team like the Chiefs who are in transition on both sides of the ball, Cassel takes care of the damn ball while still throwing TD's. Cassel is on pace to throw fewer interceptions than any of the QB's listed in the comparison despite his o-line's inability to keep him on his feet. In fact, he has thrown interceptions in only 2 of his 7 games played so far this season. Oh yeah... and though he has been sacked more than any of the QB's listed he has yet to lose a fumble.

I don't know what more you want from the guy.

It's not his fault 3/5 of his offensive line would not start on ANY other team in the NFL.

Its not his fault that his coach is calling a limp dick game offensively.

Its not his fault that his featured RB averaged a whopping 2.7 yards per carry with 0 TDs prior to his suspension and release.

Its not his fault his receivers can't get open.

Its not his fault he is having to pick himself up off the ground on half the passing plays.

I'm not claiming that this guy will be the next Manning, Brees, or Brady. I'm saying this guy COULD be a solid QB for seasons to come if he only had some protection.

I like to bitch about the team as much as the next feller but let's bitch about the players that deserved to be bitched about.

[/rant]

'Hamas' Jenkins · 11-12-2009, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soundmind

Also, Cassel needs to get through the progression faster. He's waiting for guys. You can't wait, he's either open or he's not. Throw the ball or find someone else, those are the options.

He basically played at Rookie Level last year. Now he's made the step up to All Madden, and he's being exposed.

**Tribal Warfare** · 11-12-2009, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soundmind

Also, Cassel needs to get through the progression faster. He's waiting for guys. You can't wait, he's either open or he's not. Throw the ball or find someone else, those are the options.

This issue is about the "it" factor, some individuals have natural timing and look as smooth as silk while going through reads and throwing the ball at the optimum peak for only the WRs can catch it. If one waits as long as Cassel, one must have a Favre/Elway like arm to bypass that problem

soundmind · 11-12-2009, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

He basically played at Rookie Level last year. Now he's made the step up to All Madden, and he's being exposed.

I don't know, I agree, but maybe not on the exposed part. What I'd like to think is that he's the QB he was last year, when there's a little protection and some talent around.

Also, due to the whole Haley wants to run the offense thing, you can't discount the fact that this is the 3rd system/playbook he's on in less than a season. For a QB, that's no small order. They've had some time now with Haley, but not enough time for a lot of the comparisons being made.

soundmind · 11-12-2009, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare

This issue is about the "it" factor, some individuals have natural timing and look as smooth as silk while going through reads and throwing the ball at the optimum peak for only the WRs can catch it. If one waits as long as Cassel, one must have a Favre/Elway like arm to bypass that problem

I might argue that if you're quarterback doesn't have some of that, you better have Ray Lewis in his prime.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 11-12-2009, 01:46 AM

The issue is that you can't read like you're shopping for Cheerios and then you notice that the bag cereal on the bottom shelf is cheaper after spending too much time dawdling while listening to a Muzak version of Celine Dion through the store speakers when you're playing behind this line.
Thigpen had the excuse of being a midget for not being able to work the middle; Cassel does not.
Call me inexperienced, bold, or stupid, but I think the best move for the passing game right now is to limit his options target-wise, and make the other receivers play support to try and help get the ball where it needs to go.
In essence; THIS guy is the target. And we're either going to get it to HIM or throw it away.

**pr_capone** · 11-12-2009, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

He basically played at Rookie Level last year. Now he's made the step up to All Madden, and he's being exposed.

Yup... cuz he made that shitty ass throw to Chambers that hit him NOWHERE NEAR IN STRIDE.

Your opinion on the matter at hand is next to worthless.

As in.

Your Opinion < Worthless < Not so worthless < Go Chiefs

Here is what I want you to do.

Go to the dingiest, dirtiest neighborhood in your town. Look around some abandoned buildings and you are sure to find dirty used needles.

Collect them all and go home.

When you get home, put each needle in your arm until you successfully contract AIDS (though any other life ending disease will work just as well).

Become too weak to post on the forum.

Everyone wins.

OR

You could stop embellishing to prove a non existent point and just move the **** on.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 11-12-2009, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pr_capone

Yup... cuz he made that shitty ass throw to Chambers that hit him NOWHERE NEAR IN STRIDE.

Your opinion on the matter at hand is next to worthless.

As in.

Your Opinion < Worthless < Not so worthless < Go Chiefs

Here is what I want you to do.

Go to the dingiest, dirtiest neighborhood in your town. Look around some abandoned buildings and you are sure to find dirty used needles.

Collect them all and go home.

When you get home, put each needle in your arm until you successfully contract AIDS (though any other life ending disease will work just as well).

Become too weak to post on the forum.

Everyone wins.

OR

You could stop embellishing to prove a non existent point and just move the **** on.

Get off Aunt Esther's back.

You old heathen...

SenselessChiefsFan · 11-12-2009, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soundmind

Also, Cassel needs to get through the progression faster. He's waiting for guys. You can't wait, he's either open or he's not. Throw the ball or find someone else, those are the options.

The reality of this is that QB's read faster as they gain experience and as they know an offense.

The Chiefs fired their offensive coordinator days before the season.

Plays are designed to got to a certain receiver. When the primary receiver is covered, the QB starts to go through his progressions.

The Chiefs WR's struggle to get separation. That doesn't help.

It will be interesting to see what happens the rest of the year, but if Haley calls a more aggressive game plan, I think we will be pleasantly surprised with Cassel's 'growth' down the stretch.

Chiefnj2 · 11-12-2009, 08:17 AM

As far as Cassel's progression go, I seriously doubt the receivers are where they are supposed to be all the time. Every week they bring in new guys and give them significant playing time. There's no way they've picked up the system that fast. Think Trent Green year 1 but without the green light to go downfield and take chances.

**SAUTO** · 11-12-2009, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soundmind

You know, I really like Cassel. I do. But I have to admit, this statistic is one that just makes me want to cry...

I clicked on that Brandon Carr thread, checked out the site and found the stats on Matty Tassles quite disturbing.

-------------------------------

2009 To-Date:

Drop backs: 267 (only 226 of which translated to an attempted pass)
Sacks: 26 (plus 15 "rushing" plays)
Thrown Away: 4
Hit as he Threw: 8
QB Rating: 77.2

***Yards per Attempt: 5.6
(which is in the company of Seneca Wallace, Marc Bulger, Kerry Collins, and finally, JaFatass)

-------------------------------

***I personally think this stat tells you a lot about a QB, and even more about their team and coaching.

i think we all know that the hit as he threw stat has got to be bullshit., 8 times all year??? come on. more like 8 times a half

Chiefnj2 · 11-12-2009, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soundmind

You know, I really like Cassel. I do. But I have to admit, this statistic is one that just makes me want to cry...

I clicked on that Brandon Carr thread, checked out the site and found the stats on Matty Tassles quite disturbing.

-------------------------------

2009 To-Date:

Drop backs: 267 (only 226 of which translated to an attempted pass)
Sacks: 26 (plus 15 "rushing" plays)
Thrown Away: 4
Hit as he Threw: 8
QB Rating: 77.2

***Yards per Attempt: 5.6
(which is in the company of Seneca Wallace, Marc Bulger, Kerry Collins, and finally, JaFatass)

-------------------------------

***I personally think this stat tells you a lot about a QB, and even more about their team and coaching.

If you look at other stats on that site, you see that KC's line is near the bottom in every category, the highest rated KC WR was Engram, Ryan is the lowest rated TE. The supporting cast is worse than Cassel.

The "hit as he's throwing" stat is very questionable. Roethlisberger is known for holding the ball very long, breaking tackles and making throws as he's hit and yet they have him with only 6 hit as thrown all year.

**BossChief** · 11-12-2009, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

i think we all know that the hit as he threw stat has got to be bullshit., 8 times all year??? come on. more like 8 times a half

8 is too low it seems even to me, but if he gets hit he doesn't throw the ball he goes down like the hindenburg.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 11-12-2009, 02:21 PM

I'd agree that the hit as he threw stat seems a shade low, but then again, it's a subjective stat, much like tackles or drops. I personally don't think he gets as much pressure as some here would claim.

The person responsible for crediting these stats may interpret "hit as he threw" as actually getting hit as he's in the motion of throwing, and not after completely releasing the ball.

**SAUTO** · 11-12-2009, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

I'd agree that the hit as he threw stat seems a shade low, but then again, it's a subjective stat, much like tackles or drops. I personally don't think he gets as much pressure as some here would claim.

The person responsible for crediting these stats may interpret "hit as he threw" as actually getting hit as he's in the motion of throwing, and not after completely releasing the ball.

that could be. i remember a game that they had him being hit on 30 of his drop backs

**BossChief** · 11-12-2009, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

I'd agree that the hit as he threw stat seems a shade low, but then again, it's a subjective stat, much like tackles or drops. I personally don't think he gets as much pressure as some here would claim.

The person responsible for crediting these stats may interpret "hit as he threw" as actually getting hit as he's in the motion of throwing, and not after completely releasing the ball.

To be fair, "hit as he threw" should be a stat of how many times he got "hit as he threw", right?

11-10-2009, 01:08 AM
pr_capone THREEPEAT!!! Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NWMO Casino cash: $9948214	Get of Mark Castle's back! First and foremost... I am no Cassel apologist but I am tired of reading posts just bashing Matt left and right. Here are the numbers. And before I get started... ** all this "garbage time" bullshit. EVERY QB in the league has garbage time stats so let's not get too wrapped up in that. It's not like teams have replaced all their starters with 2nd and 3rd stringers at the end of games on us. This is a statistical comparison of current QB's 2nd season as full time starters. Cassel, Ryan, & Flacco's stats are projected numbers of 16 games played in a season. Pay special attention to the TD, INT, and Sack numbers. Completions Cassel - 286 Ryan - 312 Flacco - 366 Brady - 373 McNabb - 285 Rivers - 277 Attempts Cassel - 514 Ryan - 514 Flacco - 564 Brady - 601 McNabb - 493 Rivers - 460 Completion Percentage Cassel - 55.6 Ryan - 60.9 Flacco - 64.9 Brady - 62.1 McNabb - 57.8 Rivers - 60.2 Yards Cassel - 2871 Ryan - 3568 Flacco - 4088 Brady - 3764 McNabb - 3233 Rivers - 3152 TDs Cassel - 23 Ryan - 26 Flacco - 24 Brady - 23 McNabb - 25 Rivers - 21 INTs Cassel - 11 Ryan - 20 Flacco - 14 Brady - 14 McNabb - 12 Rivers - 15 Sacks Cassel - 62 Ryan - 24 Flacco - 32 Brady - 31 McNabb - 39 Rivers - 22 What I get out of the stats. While Cassel could certainly stand to improve his completion percentage and total yardage, he is doing a damn fine job of producing in this **tarded offense. His completion and total yardage stats have been killed due to the fact that the man has zero time to set up and find an open receiver as shown by the sack numbers. I would love to know the number of times each QB was hurried and forced to run but if the sack numbers are any indication, Cassel would nearly double the amount of any of the QB's listed in this comparison. His mobility has likely saved him from another dozen or so sacks at the halfway mark. People dog Cassel for being unable to throw the deep ball. Hopefully that argument was squelched a bit after the long pass to Chambers today whom he hit in stride for a TD. It is amazing what a competent QB can do when he has a bit of time and a receiver with reliable hands & a touch of speed. Lastly, and probably of most importance for a team like the Chiefs who are in transition on both sides of the ball, Cassel takes care of the damn ball while still throwing TD's. Cassel is on pace to throw fewer interceptions than any of the QB's listed in the comparison despite his o-line's inability to keep him on his feet. In fact, he has thrown interceptions in only 2 of his 7 games played so far this season. Oh yeah... and though he has been sacked more than any of the QB's listed he has yet to lose a fumble. I don't know what more you want from the guy. It's not his fault 3/5 of his offensive line would not start on ANY other team in the NFL. Its not his fault that his coach is calling a limp dick game offensively. Its not his fault that his featured RB averaged a whopping 2.7 yards per carry with 0 TDs prior to his suspension and release. Its not his fault his receivers can't get open. Its not his fault he is having to pick himself up off the ground on half the passing plays. I'm not claiming that this guy will be the next Manning, Brees, or Brady. I'm saying this guy COULD be a solid QB for seasons to come if he only had some protection. I like to bitch about the team as much as the next feller but let's bitch about the players that deserved to be bitched about. [/rant]
Posts: 19,897

11-12-2009, 01:46 AM	#290
Sweet Daddy Hate Unsparing Join Date: Aug 2008 Casino cash: $10004900	The issue is that you can't read like you're shopping for Cheerios and then you notice that the bag cereal on the bottom shelf is cheaper after spending too much time dawdling while listening to a Muzak version of Celine Dion through the store speakers when you're playing behind this line. Thigpen had the excuse of being a midget for not being able to work the middle; Cassel does not. Call me inexperienced, bold, or stupid, but I think the best move for the passing game right now is to limit his options target-wise, and make the other receivers play support to try and help get the ball where it needs to go. In essence; THIS guy is the target. And we're either going to get it to HIM or throw it away. __________________ 1. Merciless, severe. 2. Given freely and generously. 100% refusal to overrate 20 year Head Coaches with ZERO **ing rings as a Head Coach. CP's Official Professor of 'Dem Blues for 2019/2020!**
Posts: 77,135

11-12-2009, 08:17 AM	#294
Chiefnj2 In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $6664388	As far as Cassel's progression go, I seriously doubt the receivers are where they are supposed to be all the time. Every week they bring in new guys and give them significant playing time. There's no way they've picked up the system that fast. Think Trent Green year 1 but without the green light to go downfield and take chances. __________________ Mismanaging the clock.
Posts: 22,540

11-12-2009, 02:21 PM	#298
OnTheWarpath15 MVP Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $2101115	I'd agree that the hit as he threw stat seems a shade low, but then again, it's a subjective stat, much like tackles or drops. I personally don't think he gets as much pressure as some here would claim. The person responsible for crediting these stats may interpret "hit as he threw" as actually getting hit as he's in the motion of throwing, and not after completely releasing the ball.
Posts: 60,750

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