Chiefs Mid-Term Evaluation: Grading Scott Pioli - Page 2

Nightfyre · 09-07-2011, 12:53 AM

Please provide your grade of Scott Pioli through the first two and a half years of service, along with some insight about why you graded him so.

Mine:

Changes in Head Coaches:
Firing Chan Gailey - B - It was a no-brainer. Keeping him on in the capacity of an offensive coordinator was somewhat of a mess, but maybe they got some intel out of him they otherwise wouldn't have.

Hiring Todd Haley - B - I like Todd Haley. I think he has the capacity and balls to bring us to the Superbowl. He definitely does things his way, which is both good and bad. He is also willing to adapt as he goes.

Drafting:
2009 -
Round 1:
Tyson Jackson - (D) A 5-tech drafted at number 3 who should have been drafted somewhere around the middle of the first round. Jackson has failed to impress in his first two seasons; however, that is typical of defensive lineman as their development cycle is thought to average three years. He cannot possibly live up to his draft position.

Round 2:
Matt Cassel - (C) - Cassel has probably played at a B- level, but the huge contract he is under mitigates his play. Further, Pioli continues to stick with him despite his limited upside and time-in-service.

Mike Vrabel - (C) - provided below-average play due to his speed, but supposedly provided veteran leadership. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on that part.

Round 3:
Alex Magee - (F) - Traded to the Buc's to swap a fifth round pick for a sixth round pick two years later.

Round 4:
Donald Washington (C) - A high upside pick that just didn't pan out. I like this pick at the time. Still on the roster (they refuse to give up on him)

Round 5:
Colin Brown (F) - Didn't even make the opening season roster.

Round 6:
Quinten Lawrence (C) - Mediocre non-contributor, Currently on the Practice Squad

Round 7:
Javarris Williams - (C) - Released and subsequently signed with the Texans.

Jake O'Connell - (C) - How does this guy justify a roster spot?

Ryan Succop - (A) - What a pickup. A good kicker with the leg to become an elite one.

2010:

Round 1:
Eric Berry - (A+) - A super high upside pick with great intangibles, made the pro-bowl his first year.

Round 2:
Dexter McCluster - (C) - An undersized player they envisioned at the slot. He did win us the first game of the 2010 season, but he suffered an injury. It's hard to pin down just what McCluster will contribute. Regardless, at this point it appears unlikely to be worth a second round pick.

Javier Arenas - (B-) - He is likely a career nickel-back, which he does well and has upside at. Given the frequency with which nickel-backs are used in todays NFL, I am going to say he has potential to justify his draft position, but he will have to become pretty elite.

Round 3:
Jon Asamoah - (B+) - He is starting in 2011, and while he does not yet appear to be elite, he certainly has the potential.

Round 4:
Tony Moeaki - (B) - An elite tight-end in the making. The only caveat is that he has difficulty remaining healthy. May the lord bless us with a miracle surgeon.

Round 5:
Kendrick Lewis - (A) - A starting FS whose play in 2010 was adequate. Here's hoping he continues to improve.

Cameron Sheffield - (B) - After suffering a freak neck injury in 2010, we finally get to see Sheffield this year. He appears to be a moderate-upside player.

2011 Draft:
Round 1:
Jonathon Baldwin - (B+) - A top ten talent/athlete with character questions and a skill-set in severe need of an overhaul. Drafted near the bottom of round 1. His measurables are off the charts. He is slightly bigger than Larry Fitzgerald and as athletic. He must improve his attitude, his route-running, and his ability to break off press coverage. Amazing Hands. I hope this kid pans out, because I see Larry Fitzgerald upside.

Round 2:
Rodney Hudson - (B) - A highly-touted guard/center, but slightly undersized. Based on the preseason he is going to take some polish, but another good selection based on the information we have now.

Round 3:
Justin Houston - (B+) - A first round talent who dropped due to a failed drug test. He appears to have elite upside based on what we have seen thusfar.

Allen Bailey - (B+) - Another highly talented individual who appears to have elite upside.

Round 4:
Jalil Brown - (B) - Appears to have the stuff to make it as a number 2 corner, based on what we've seen thusfar.

Round 5:
Ricky Stanzi - (B) - Appears to have a better skillset and arm than Cassel, but we do not have a sufficient sample to draw any conclusions yet.

Round 6:
Gabe Miller - (C+) - Currently on the IR. I have not seen him play yet.

Jerrel Powe - (B) - Appears to have quite the upside for a nose tackle. Many would have been happy to see him drafted in round four, let alone six.

Round 7:
Shane Bannon - (C) - Currently on the practice squad.

OVERALL DRAFTING GRADE: B
I added less weight to the first draft given the timeframe in which Pioli was added.

Notable Free Agents:
2009:
Jovan Belcher - An UDFA who appears to have high upside as a MLB.
Terrence Copper - Special Teams player

2010:
Casey Weigman - A veteran with good presence in the locker room. Played well early in the season but lost too much weight/steam in the second half to be effective.

Thomas Jones- A veteran presence in the lockerroom, probably responsible for us maintaining Charles (an oft overlooked point.) On the other hand he did break our first round picks hand.

Ryan Lilja - A great pickup at Guard. A starter with some miles left on him.

Shaun Smith - An awesome pickup on the defensive line. He moved on to the Titans but provided one of his best years to KC.

Mike Brown - Lost too much speed to be effective.

Jerhame Urban - Still has a roster spot anyway.

2011:

Steve Breaston - Appears to be a solid addition, currently starting opposite Bowe.

Kelly Gregg - Hopefully he can show Powe the ropes. no one is sure how much he has left in the tank.

Steve Piscitelli - Safety depth, sort of.

Brandon Siler - Appeared to be a terrific pickup until he hit the IR.

Keary Colbert - Has a roster spot. Maybe he can show some of his old magic.

Le'ron McClain - An all-pro FB should provide excellent improvement in the short yardage running game, an area sorely missed last season.

Free Agency Grade: B-
We have added some players, however I would say Pioli has only done a slightly above-average job thusfar acquiring talent through free agency.

Pioli's overall grade: B

He has substantially improved the roster and the coaching staff. However, he has a long way to go to bring us to the Bowl.

**Rausch** · 09-07-2011, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

In K.C., obviously.

In 2008, here were the teams with 5 wins or fewer, with their win totals that year, and their highest win total since in parentheses:

Bengals: 4(10)
Browns: 4(5)
Jaguars: 5(8)
Raiders: 5(8)
Chiefs: 2(10)
Lions: 0(6)
Seahawks: 4(7)
Rams: 2(7)

That gives the Chiefs the best turnaround in the group, and that includes the year where Pioli was a late hire and didn't have his own staff in place. He doesn't really need what he did with the Patriots to be included in that.

Ok, so after a 10-6 record and a first round playoff ass-pounding what grade would you give the HC/GM?

An A?

B+?...

NJChiefsFan · 09-07-2011, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch

Ok, so after a 10-6 record and a first round playoff ass-pounding what grade would you give the HC/GM?

An A?

B+?...

Im not sure its fair to penalize him for a team that probably over achieved and got in the ring with a team it wasn't fully ready for. Yet another reason to wait until this season ends to start deciding on either extremes for this question.

LOCOChief · 09-07-2011, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KnowMo2724

I don't know if Pioli deserves a good letter grade. He inherited every good player on the roster from Herm and Carl. He did get Berry but he shouldn't get a lot of credit for that because Berry fell right into his lap.

Yeah see many of you guys and KnowMo THINK ALIKE.

grading a rokkie's that haven't played a snap.

do any of you know what grade the league gave him? hmmmmmm

**Bugeater** · 09-07-2011, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

The guy won executive of the year, helped his team go from 2 wins to 10 wins in just 2 seasons, and just had what looks to be a second consecutive excellent draft, and that's only good enough for a "B"?

This ****ing place

I didn't realize he set up the 2010 schedule.

Deberg_1990 · 09-07-2011, 06:47 AM

What grade did Chiefsplanet give Carl Peterson in Sept. 1991?

King_Chief_Fan · 09-07-2011, 06:53 AM

As if any of you are qualified to evaluate job performance of an NFL GM.

I give you all an F on your attempt. It was humorous though.

milkman · 09-07-2011, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

In K.C., obviously.

In 2008, here were the teams with 5 wins or fewer, with their win totals that year, and their highest win total since in parentheses:

Bengals: 4(10)
Browns: 4(5)
Jaguars: 5(8)
Raiders: 5(8)
Chiefs: 2(10)
Lions: 0(6)
Seahawks: 4(7)
Rams: 2(7)

That gives the Chiefs the best turnaround in the group, and that includes the year where Pioli was a late hire and didn't have his own staff in place. He doesn't really need what he did with the Patriots to be included in that.

Hey, it's just grades, and they're meaningless. I just get a kick out of this place bitching over an 8 game improvement in 2 years largely because a handful of people poisoned the waters about a QB who's been better than the guy they wanted the team to draft.

I think this idea of grading is pretty assinine at this point, but using these numbers, clearly Mike Brown is a damn good GM.

King_Chief_Fan · 09-07-2011, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gif Horse

The Weis breakup is a sign of weakness in Haley.

is that you or your avatar speaking?

Chief Faithful · 09-07-2011, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KnowMo2724

I don't know if Pioli deserves a good letter grade. He inherited every good player on the roster from Herm and Carl. He did get Berry but he shouldn't get a lot of credit for that because Berry fell right into his lap.

Common KnowMo, you are loosing your burst.

Reerun_KC · 09-07-2011, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King_Chief_Fan

As if any of you are qualified to evaluate job performance of an NFL GM.

I give you all an F on your attempt. It was humorous though.

This...

**the Talking Can** · 09-07-2011, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

The guy won executive of the year, helped his team go from 2 wins to 10 wins in just 2 seasons, and just had what looks to be a second consecutive excellent draft, and that's only good enough for a "B"?

This ****ing place

nobody cares what Cassel's vas deferens thinks...

Hydrae · 09-07-2011, 07:27 AM

I agree, I am not thrilled with Cassell. But getting a starting LB and QB for a second round pick is certainly better than a "C" grade.

Just sayin'

Chiefnj2 · 09-07-2011, 07:29 AM

2009: F. Bad draft. Firing OC 2 weeks before the season. Haley over his head. DC that didn't fit.

2010: A. Good draft. Hired 2 very good coordinators. Team overachieves and makes playoffs.

2011: Inc.

Quesadilla Joe · 09-07-2011, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Faithful

Common KnowMo, you are loosing your burst.

What part of that isn't true though? He did inherit Charles, Flowers, Albert, Carr, Dorsey, Derrick Johnson, Brian Waters, Bowe, and Tamba Hali. Who else that is any good has Pioli brought in? Berry was a nobrainer pick at #5 much like Von Miller was for Elway so they shouldn't get credit for top 5 picks.

The best thing Pioli was able to do was bring in Weis and Crennel last year and now Weis is gone.

whoman69 · 09-07-2011, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KnowMo2724

I don't know if Pioli deserves a good letter grade. He inherited every good player on the roster from Herm and Carl. He did get Berry but he shouldn't get a lot of credit for that because Berry fell right into his lap.

Yes because Herm brought out all the great play in those players.

We had other options beyond Berry.

09-07-2011, 12:53 AM
Nightfyre MVP Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Helena, MT Casino cash: $1358849	Mid-Term Evaluation: Grading Scott Pioli Please provide your grade of Scott Pioli through the first two and a half years of service, along with some insight about why you graded him so. Mine: Changes in Head Coaches: Firing Chan Gailey - B - It was a no-brainer. Keeping him on in the capacity of an offensive coordinator was somewhat of a mess, but maybe they got some intel out of him they otherwise wouldn't have. Hiring Todd Haley - B - I like Todd Haley. I think he has the capacity and balls to bring us to the Superbowl. He definitely does things his way, which is both good and bad. He is also willing to adapt as he goes. Drafting: 2009 - Round 1: Tyson Jackson - (D) A 5-tech drafted at number 3 who should have been drafted somewhere around the middle of the first round. Jackson has failed to impress in his first two seasons; however, that is typical of defensive lineman as their development cycle is thought to average three years. He cannot possibly live up to his draft position. Round 2: Matt Cassel - (C) - Cassel has probably played at a B- level, but the huge contract he is under mitigates his play. Further, Pioli continues to stick with him despite his limited upside and time-in-service. Mike Vrabel - (C) - provided below-average play due to his speed, but supposedly provided veteran leadership. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on that part. Round 3: Alex Magee - (F) - Traded to the Buc's to swap a fifth round pick for a sixth round pick two years later. Round 4: Donald Washington (C) - A high upside pick that just didn't pan out. I like this pick at the time. Still on the roster (they refuse to give up on him) Round 5: Colin Brown (F) - Didn't even make the opening season roster. Round 6: Quinten Lawrence (C) - Mediocre non-contributor, Currently on the Practice Squad Round 7: Javarris Williams - (C) - Released and subsequently signed with the Texans. Jake O'Connell - (C) - How does this guy justify a roster spot? Ryan Succop - (A) - What a pickup. A good kicker with the leg to become an elite one. 2010: Round 1: Eric Berry - (A+) - A super high upside pick with great intangibles, made the pro-bowl his first year. Round 2: Dexter McCluster - (C) - An undersized player they envisioned at the slot. He did win us the first game of the 2010 season, but he suffered an injury. It's hard to pin down just what McCluster will contribute. Regardless, at this point it appears unlikely to be worth a second round pick. Javier Arenas - (B-) - He is likely a career nickel-back, which he does well and has upside at. Given the frequency with which nickel-backs are used in todays NFL, I am going to say he has potential to justify his draft position, but he will have to become pretty elite. Round 3: Jon Asamoah - (B+) - He is starting in 2011, and while he does not yet appear to be elite, he certainly has the potential. Round 4: Tony Moeaki - (B) - An elite tight-end in the making. The only caveat is that he has difficulty remaining healthy. May the lord bless us with a miracle surgeon. Round 5: Kendrick Lewis - (A) - A starting FS whose play in 2010 was adequate. Here's hoping he continues to improve. Cameron Sheffield - (B) - After suffering a freak neck injury in 2010, we finally get to see Sheffield this year. He appears to be a moderate-upside player. 2011 Draft: Round 1: Jonathon Baldwin - (B+) - A top ten talent/athlete with character questions and a skill-set in severe need of an overhaul. Drafted near the bottom of round 1. His measurables are off the charts. He is slightly bigger than Larry Fitzgerald and as athletic. He must improve his attitude, his route-running, and his ability to break off press coverage. Amazing Hands. I hope this kid pans out, because I see Larry Fitzgerald upside. Round 2: Rodney Hudson - (B) - A highly-touted guard/center, but slightly undersized. Based on the preseason he is going to take some polish, but another good selection based on the information we have now. Round 3: Justin Houston - (B+) - A first round talent who dropped due to a failed drug test. He appears to have elite upside based on what we have seen thusfar. Allen Bailey - (B+) - Another highly talented individual who appears to have elite upside. Round 4: Jalil Brown - (B) - Appears to have the stuff to make it as a number 2 corner, based on what we've seen thusfar. Round 5: Ricky Stanzi - (B) - Appears to have a better skillset and arm than Cassel, but we do not have a sufficient sample to draw any conclusions yet. Round 6: Gabe Miller - (C+) - Currently on the IR. I have not seen him play yet. Jerrel Powe - (B) - Appears to have quite the upside for a nose tackle. Many would have been happy to see him drafted in round four, let alone six. Round 7: Shane Bannon - (C) - Currently on the practice squad. OVERALL DRAFTING GRADE: B I added less weight to the first draft given the timeframe in which Pioli was added. Notable Free Agents: 2009: Jovan Belcher - An UDFA who appears to have high upside as a MLB. Terrence Copper - Special Teams player 2010: Casey Weigman - A veteran with good presence in the locker room. Played well early in the season but lost too much weight/steam in the second half to be effective. Thomas Jones- A veteran presence in the lockerroom, probably responsible for us maintaining Charles (an oft overlooked point.) On the other hand he did break our first round picks hand. Ryan Lilja - A great pickup at Guard. A starter with some miles left on him. Shaun Smith - An awesome pickup on the defensive line. He moved on to the Titans but provided one of his best years to KC. Mike Brown - Lost too much speed to be effective. Jerhame Urban - Still has a roster spot anyway. 2011: Steve Breaston - Appears to be a solid addition, currently starting opposite Bowe. Kelly Gregg - Hopefully he can show Powe the ropes. no one is sure how much he has left in the tank. Steve Piscitelli - Safety depth, sort of. Brandon Siler - Appeared to be a terrific pickup until he hit the IR. Keary Colbert - Has a roster spot. Maybe he can show some of his old magic. Le'ron McClain - An all-pro FB should provide excellent improvement in the short yardage running game, an area sorely missed last season. Free Agency Grade: B- We have added some players, however I would say Pioli has only done a slightly above-average job thusfar acquiring talent through free agency. Pioli's overall grade: B He has substantially improved the roster and the coaching staff. However, he has a long way to go to bring us to the Bowl.
Posts: 18,647

09-07-2011, 06:47 AM	#20
Deberg_1990 In Search of a Life Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Antonio Tx. Casino cash: $304454	What grade did Chiefsplanet give Carl Peterson in Sept. 1991?
Posts: 68,435

09-07-2011, 06:53 AM	#21
King_Chief_Fan Praise Him Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: none ya Casino cash: $4755486	As if any of you are qualified to evaluate job performance of an NFL GM. I give you all an F on your attempt. It was humorous though.
Posts: 12,362

09-07-2011, 07:27 AM	#27
Hydrae MVP Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Newport, Or Casino cash: $-993000	I agree, I am not thrilled with Cassell. But getting a starting LB and QB for a second round pick is certainly better than a "C" grade. Just sayin'
Posts: 14,853

09-07-2011, 07:29 AM	#28
Chiefnj2 In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $6674388	2009: F. Bad draft. Firing OC 2 weeks before the season. Haley over his head. DC that didn't fit. 2010: A. Good draft. Hired 2 very good coordinators. Team overachieves and makes playoffs. 2011: Inc. __________________ Mismanaging the clock.
Posts: 22,540

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