Installing a passenger side mirror?

[Exoter175]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

It becomes unethical when he bills for hours not worked.

When you do a little research on the business and understand how it works, instead of applying it to the business you are currently in, give me a call, I'll school you in the world of automotive repair so that you KNOW what you are talking about.

I don't charge anybody for anything they don't need, including hours. I charge them based on how long this job should take my mechanics, based on how quickly my mechanics work on average compared to book time, and scale appropriately.

[chiefforlife]

Originally Posted by Exoter175

When you do a little research on the business and understand how it works, instead of applying it to the business you are currently in, give me a call, I'll school you in the world of automotive repair so that you KNOW what you are talking about.

I don't charge anybody for anything they don't need, including hours. I charge them based on how long this job should take my mechanics, based on how quickly my mechanics work on average compared to book time, and scale appropriately.

Whether a shop chooses to raise their labor rate or bump their hours or mark up their parts, is up to them. There is no wrong way to do it.

As some mentioned earlier, the price of the job is what you want to shop. Of course if you only shop for price, I guarantee you, you wont find the best shop.

[Exoter175]

Originally Posted by chiefforlife

Whether a shop chooses to raise their labor rate or bump their hours or mark up their parts, is up to them. There is no wrong way to do it.

As some mentioned earlier, the price of the job is what you want to shop. Of course if you only shop for price, I guarantee you, you wont find the best shop.

The only way to find the best shop is to ask around, and talk with them face to face.

My job, as an owner, manager, and mechanic, was to show YOU what you were paying for. I might not have always been the cheapest, but I was the best, and for GOOD customers, I'd work almost any way I could and bend over backwards for your business.

However, I'm probably not putting a mirror on your car for 20 bucks or less.

[chiefforlife]

Originally Posted by Exoter175

The only way to find the best shop is to ask around, and talk with them face to face.

My job, as an owner, manager, and mechanic, was to show YOU what you were paying for. I might not have always been the cheapest, but I was the best, and for GOOD customers, I'd work almost any way I could and bend over backwards for your business.

However, I'm probably not putting a mirror on your car for 20 bucks or less.

My labor rate is 98.00 an hour. We arent the cheapest but we dont charge what the dealer does either?

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by Exoter175

When you do a little research on the business and understand how it works, instead of applying it to the business you are currently in, give me a call, I'll school you in the world of automotive repair so that you KNOW what you are talking about.

I don't charge anybody for anything they don't need, including hours. I charge them based on how long this job should take my mechanics, based on how quickly my mechanics work on average compared to book time, and scale appropriately.

so your mechanics werent good enough to do the jobs in book time?

got it.


and the only perrson assuming anything here is you buddy.

you assume i am what you THINK i am. all the while i have told you exactly what i am.

[Exoter175]

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

so your mechanics werent good enough to do the jobs in book time?

got it.


and the only perrson assuming anything here is you buddy.

you assume i am what you THINK i am. all the while i have told you exactly what i am.

No, my mechanics were top notch, they can do fast work when I ask them to, but I ask that they do PERFECT work. Something you probably don't know much about. I can charge you for 2 hours and get your car done in an hour, but I can't guarantee it is perfect because I'm putting a rush on them. I'd rather not rush them and sacrifice my product and my credibility.

As for the assumptions, I'm referring to you making the assumption that I had two failed businesses that I ran into the ground, when I didn't.

I like money, I like being paid more for less work, that's why I no longer own my own shop. I like the freedom of doing whatever I want, when I want.

You don't get that freedom at a mom and pop shop, and if you were half as busy as you claim to be on these forums, you wouldn't be here posting.

From someone in the "know" about being busy, I can tell you that I NEVER had the time to post on a message board when I was working at my shops, i was......TOO BUSY......

Business hours 8-6, real hours 7-10. That's what busy looks like chump.

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by Exoter175

No, my mechanics were top notch, they can do fast work when I ask them to, but I ask that they do PERFECT work. Something you probably don't know much about. I can charge you for 2 hours and get your car done in an hour, but I can't guarantee it is perfect because I'm putting a rush on them. I'd rather not rush them and sacrifice my product and my credibility.

As for the assumptions, I'm referring to you making the assumption that I had two failed businesses that I ran into the ground, when I didn't.

I like money, I like being paid more for less work, that's why I no longer own my own shop. I like the freedom of doing whatever I want, when I want.

You don't get that freedom at a mom and pop shop, and if you were half as busy as you claim to be on these forums, you wouldn't be here posting.

From someone in the "know" about being busy, I can tell you that I NEVER had the time to post on a message board when I was working at my shops, i was......TOO BUSY......

Business hours 8-6, real hours 7-10. That's what busy looks like chump.

lol more assumptions. when there is a person that has been to my shop and can verify everything i have said.

and i expect every job that leaves my shop to be just as it was from the factory. i dont want to be able to pop a hood and see that the vehicle has been worked on. book time accounts for that, and even includes time to clean up after the job...

but you think you need to inflate it

[Exoter175]

Originally Posted by chiefforlife

My labor rate is 98.00 an hour. We arent the cheapest but we dont charge what the dealer does either?

I'm not following. Not sure if question, or troll post.

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

thats not saul's point.


he's talking about the guy inflating book time and charging for it.


if you beat book time good for you its a bonus for the shop and the mechanic.

saul knows this and has stated as such multiple times

You don't always beat book time, you don't always do a PERFECT job. I scale my book times by 10% and only 10% to account for doing a PERFECT unrushed job, because my job is to give you perfect work so that you don't have to bring it back 3 days later with a flat tire after I did an engine swap.

Originally Posted by mikeyis4dcats.

so your beef is simply that he bills $80/hr instead of $82/hr?

His beef is that he dislikes the fact that I know how to do business better, that I criticized his work, after he criticized mine in another thread. He's an idiot who works at a mom and pop, I'm a small business entrepreneur who is working towards his third business, while Employed in the same field he is in, making 2-3 times as much as him for half the work at a dealership, and today I have an off day, something he doesn't get because he works at a mom and pop where you never get a day off.

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

but those customers that trust you trust that you are charging them according to what the industry standards are.

book time is actually industry standard IMO, thats why every shop buys those over priced things

Book time is not an industry standard you ****ing moron, if it were, all 9 competing software companies would have the same book numbers, and they don't.

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

my beef is that he marks up the time in his labor guide anywhere from 10- 20%.

I mark up my labor guide by 10% using an industry low book time, to account for the work that was being done at my shop, which was second to none.

If you don't like that, don't bring your car to any of my current or future businesses, but rest assured, I am not GOUGING you on price, I'm making sure your car is done right the first time, and you don't have to bring it back next week for something we ****ed up.

[Exoter175]

Originally Posted by mikeyis4dcats.

it's no different than insurance work for body work. The insurance company goes by the "book", but shops can tweak accordingly.

it may be a guide, but it's not written in stone.

Precisely, because there is no industry standard at all.

Originally Posted by mikeyis4dcats.

but would you care so much if his rate was lower than the average rate? you conveniently ignored my questions earlier...

He conveniently ignores questions for days when he realizes what he is about to answer, contradicts his argument. He does this all the time.

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

lol more assumptions. when there is a person that has been to my shop and can verify everything i have said.

and i expect every job that leaves my shop to be just as it was from the factory. i dont want to be able to pop a hood and see that the vehicle has been worked on. book time accounts for that, and even includes time to clean up after the job...

but you think you need to inflate it

Because My guys do better work, thorough work, and I offer more conveniences, more accommodations than you do.

I simply run a better business Sauto, you can disagree with that all you want, but you don't have a business in the metro, you don't compete with hundreds of shops and dealerships for business.

My prices were great, lower than just about everyone, I did better work than everyone, and I was much more flexible in pay, and in scheduling than those around me.

I knocked that mother****er out of the park with every customer, and not once had a problem, ever.

You might say the same in your backwoods mom and pop, but you didn't do it here in the metro, so your opinion means nothing to me when you're in a different demographic with different competition.

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by Exoter175

Precisely, because there is no industry standard at all.



He conveniently ignores questions for days when he realizes what he is about to answer, contradicts his argument. He does this all the time.



Because My guys do better work, thorough work, and I offer more conveniences, more accommodations than you do.

I simply run a better business Sauto, you can disagree with that all you want, but you don't have a business in the metro, you don't compete with hundreds of shops and dealerships for business.

My prices were great, lower than just about everyone, I did better work than everyone, and I was much more flexible in pay, and in scheduling than those around me.

I knocked that mother****er out of the park with every customer, and not once had a problem, ever.

You might say the same in your backwoods mom and pop, but you didn't do it here in the metro, so your opinion means nothing to me when you're in a different demographic with different competition.

i missed his questions.

a guy who has failed 2 times doesnt hold much water in my book either.

and i guarantee you do not make 3 times what i do.

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by Exoter175

I'm not following. Not sure if question, or troll post.



You don't always beat book time, you don't always do a PERFECT job. I scale my book times by 10% and only 10% to account for doing a PERFECT unrushed job, because my job is to give you perfect work so that you don't have to bring it back 3 days later with a flat tire after I did an engine swap.



His beef is that he dislikes the fact that I know how to do business better, that I criticized his work, after he criticized mine in another thread. He's an idiot who works at a mom and pop, I'm a small business entrepreneur who is working towards his third business, while Employed in the same field he is in, making 2-3 times as much as him for half the work at a dealership, and today I have an off day, something he doesn't get because he works at a mom and pop where you never get a day off.




Book time is not an industry standard you ****ing moron, if it were, all 9 competing software companies would have the same book numbers, and they don't.


I mark up my labor guide by 10% using an industry low book time, to account for the work that was being done at my shop, which was second to none.

If you don't like that, don't bring your car to any of my current or future businesses, but rest assured, I am not GOUGING you on price, I'm making sure your car is done right the first time, and you don't have to bring it back next week for something we ****ed up.

shit i had all weekend off.

another assumption.


and when i put that motor in the car had been here 2 weeks waiting on them to get the money. tire never went flat.

but they ran over a screw from the new roof they had put on last week and now it did.

im sure you would have caught that with your super powers and fixed it prior to it happening,.


BTW her husband just stopped and paid for it. he's a smart guy

[chiefforlife]

[QUOTE=Exoter175;9486173]I'm not following. Not sure if question, or troll post.



No not a troll post, just stating where I choose to make it, in my labor rate. I realize people shop labor rate but we sell them on quality of parts, service and technicians.

[Exoter175]

[QUOTE=chiefforlife;9486207]

Originally Posted by Exoter175

I'm not following. Not sure if question, or troll post.



No not a troll post, just stating where I choose to make it, in my labor rate. I realize people shop labor rate but we sell them on quality of parts, service and technicians.

Well, I think what most people don't understand is that there is no Industry standard on book time, and no industry standard on labor hour, and that you can change either of them at any time, at will, for any purpose.

There will be guys out there who inflate them solely to make a profit, in fact, most shops will do it just to make a profit. I personally set my labor rate high because I've got a lot of overhead for a small time shop, but I didn't want to get swamped.

I got swamped.

[chiefforlife]

The labor guide is just that, a guide. It is not the Bible. Plenty of shops change labor rates on certain jobs, and some change it on all jobs. I choose to stick to it as closely as possible.
I can tell you that many times Mitchell will say 6 hours and All Data will say 8. Is one guy being dishonest because he uses All Data?

[Exoter175]

Originally Posted by chiefforlife

The labor guide is just that, a guide. It is not the Bible. Plenty of shops change labor rates on certain jobs, and some change it on all jobs. I choose to stick to it as closely as possible.
I can tell you that many times Mitchell will say 6 hours and All Data will say 8. Is one guy being dishonest because he uses All Data?

And that's exactly what I'm getting at.

If I choose a labor guide that is 10% below industry average, and then raise my labor hours by 10% because I like the functionality of that software more, does that make me unethical? Despite the top 2/3rds of the industry average softwares charging you more than my 10%?