2013 Kansas City Royals Repository Thread

[duncan_idaho]

Proposed 2013 Slogan: Tigers: They're what's for dinner
Actual 2013 Slogan: Come to Play
A better, more accurate, or alternative slogan: All in, no panic, we promise.

Dayton Moore has pushed all his chips in and is riding on King/Jack suited, hoping it comes together, he gets some good luck, and he hits the nuts by the river card. There's potential, oh yes, there's potential. There's also risk.

At the midway point, Dayton is left counting on the river card. The flop and turn didn't help him, and he's looking at the Tigers holding a pair of Queens and the Indians holding a pair of 9s. His 2013 plan hasn't failed - yet - but the odds are not in his favor.

Burning questions updates below.

Burning Questions for 2013:

1) Will the improve rotation be improved enough? Does James Shields pitch like a fringe No. 1 away from Tampa Bay? Does Ervin Santana pitch to his highest upside in his walk year? Can Jeremy Guthrie build on his strong performance as a Royal in 2012? Can Wade Davis bring his new mentality- and velocity - back to the rotation?

Midseason check-in: Yes, the rotation is certainly improved enough. Shields has pitched like a fringe No. 1 and Santana is having his best season. Guthrie has horrible peripherals but has continued to perform well at his home park and eat innings on the road. Davis brought neither his kick-ass mentality or improved velocity back to the rotation and is in Luke Hochevar/Hiram Davies territory.

2) When will Luke Hochevar be shown the door?
Midseason check-in: It appears, never, at this point. Hochevar has been solid in non-leverage situations, though pretty much every time he has been used with men on base in an inning, it has been a disaster.

3) Does Hosmer bounce back?
Midseason check-in: It took some time, but Hosmer's performance from June 1 on is probably the most encouraging thing about the 2013 season so far.
4) Can Moustakas hit for a whole season like he did in the first half of 2012?
Midseason check-in: Nope. Moustakas was god-awful, then great for about 3 weeks, then god-awful again. He has been better since he started working with Brett and Grafol but still has a long way to go.
5) Who regresses?
Midseason check-in: Welp, Alicides Escobar is not a surprising name here (though Yost's stubborn insistence on hitting him second is ridiculous). Billy Butler is a surprise. He isn't having a terrible year - still contributing a lot to the offense - but he's not hitting for the average or power he has displayed over the past several years.
6) Who plays 2B?
Midseason check-in: A whole bunch of people, and not that great. Gio is at least getting a shot, though he once again is not doing much with it.
7) Can Jeff Francoeur be at least replacement level, rather than epic horrible level?
Midseason check-in: Hahahahahahahahahahaha
8) Will Dayton Moore survive to see 2014?
Midseason check-in: Outlook uncertain. Probably still around, unless the team completely tanks in the second half and he does something foolish. My guess - he sacrifices Ned Yost this offseason and gets one more shot with a new manager in 2014.
9) Will Danny Duffy come back healthy? And if he does, is he the same, better or worse?
Midseason check-in: Yes. Velocity looks the same, and it looks likely he is the same guy as before.
10) And the big one: Has KC added enough to run down the big-money Detroit Tigers?
Midseason check-in: Doesn't look like it, does it?

[Archie F. Swin]

Originally Posted by Toadkiller

Tonights game postponed, make up is monday at 1:10

jebus muther****ing tapdancing muther****ing christ on a god-forsaken, shit stained, muther****ing cheese cracker

**** THIS SHIT!!!

[ChiTown]

Originally Posted by Archie F. Swin

jebus muther****ing tapdancing muther****ing christ on a god-forsaken, shit stained, muther****ing cheese cracker

**** THIS SHIT!!!

[Prison Bitch]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

No.

The discussion doesn't just begin and end with Utley, either. Jimmy Rollins is an interesting name as well (though his vesting option for 2015 is a concern).

Nobody is untradeable. Wil Myers should have taught us all that. Also, TINSTAPP. Hoarding pitching prospects is not guaranteed to succeed. In fact, there's plenty of evidence to suggest the opposite.

The Royals compatability as a trade partner with Philadelphia comes down to what type of rebuild the Phillies plan to do. If they want "close" talent, the Royals would have a tough time matching up without Ventura (though I have a hard time seeing any top 50 talents involved in a deadline deal for Utley).

If the Phillies are willing to accept something that's farther away, a lot of talent comes into play (and I'm probably missing a few guys):

Orlando Calixte
Jorge Bonifacio
Cheslor Cuthbert
Miguel Almonte
Angel Baez
Sam Selman
Kyle Smith
Bryan Brickhouse
Fred Ford
Cam Gallagher

It's too early to have any idea what Philly is looking at, but if they're a seller this year, they're probably looking at a 2-3 year rebuild.

If you look at what the Phillies got in return for Hunter Pence (who was younger, controlled longer and much less of a health risk), you're not talking about prospects like Ventura or Zimmer.

You're talking about Seth Rosin - 23-year-old who started his third professional season at A+ level - and Tommy Joseph - a young catcher with some intriguing power but contact issues.

Oh, and Nate Schierholtz.

By "untradeable", I refer to untradeable for 95% of MLB players. Yeah if James Shields or Cliff Lee is available then we'll put our top guys out there. We'll kick the tires and, in the case of Shields, pull the trigger. If the Phils make Lee available we'll look for sure although his salary would make any deal a nonstarter. If Stanton is made availabe sure - Zimmer is put on the table. You get the point.


Teams generally don't put decent (let alone good) vets on the table for A or AA ball semi-prospects. Sam Selman or Brickhouse might excite you but these guys rarely return anyone decent. It's a catch 22 as it is: if Utley is healthy & hitting then he won't be cheap. If he's not, then you don't really want him anyway.

[Nightfyre]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

No.

The discussion doesn't just begin and end with Utley, either. Jimmy Rollins is an interesting name as well (though his vesting option for 2015 is a concern).

Nobody is untradeable. Wil Myers should have taught us all that. Also, TINSTAPP. Hoarding pitching prospects is not guaranteed to succeed. In fact, there's plenty of evidence to suggest the opposite.

The Royals compatability as a trade partner with Philadelphia comes down to what type of rebuild the Phillies plan to do. If they want "close" talent, the Royals would have a tough time matching up without Ventura (though I have a hard time seeing any top 50 talents involved in a deadline deal for Utley).

If the Phillies are willing to accept something that's farther away, a lot of talent comes into play (and I'm probably missing a few guys):

Orlando Calixte
Jorge Bonifacio
Cheslor Cuthbert
Miguel Almonte
Angel Baez
Sam Selman
Kyle Smith
Bryan Brickhouse
Fred Ford
Cam Gallagher

It's too early to have any idea what Philly is looking at, but if they're a seller this year, they're probably looking at a 2-3 year rebuild.

If you look at what the Phillies got in return for Hunter Pence (who was younger, controlled longer and much less of a health risk), you're not talking about prospects like Ventura or Zimmer.

You're talking about Seth Rosin - 23-year-old who started his third professional season at A+ level - and Tommy Joseph - a young catcher with some intriguing power but contact issues.

Oh, and Nate Schierholtz.

Utley would be a half-year, 7.5 million dollar rental - and he's 34. Sure, he's a great player and a left-handed bat with pop that this lineup could really use. But surely his prospect price would not be as substantial as many are making it out to be if the Phillies were in a selling/rebuilding mode, right?

[Prison Bitch]

Then the trade becomes tough for Philly to justify. Do you jettison a fan favorite, guy who you brought up, played his whole career there, loves the city, face of the franchise - for Brian Brickhouse? Seems like it's not even worth it for Philly or their fans really. Besides they don't care about money anyway so that won't be a factor.

[alnorth]

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

By "untradeable", I refer to untradeable for 95% of MLB players. Yeah if James Shields or Cliff Lee is available then we'll put our top guys out there. We'll kick the tires and, in the case of Shields, pull the trigger. If the Phils make Lee available we'll look for sure although his salary would make any deal a nonstarter. If Stanton is made availabe sure - Zimmer is put on the table. You get the point.


Teams generally don't put decent (let alone good) vets on the table for A or AA ball semi-prospects. Sam Selman or Brickhouse might excite you but these guys rarely return anyone decent. It's a catch 22 as it is: if Utley is healthy & hitting then he won't be cheap. If he's not, then you don't really want him anyway.

Utley is 34 and a free agent next year.

Nobody is giving up much for him. If the Phillies are sellers and can't/won't extend Utley, then they will take a B-level prospect for him, or they'll get nothing at all.

[Prison Bitch]

Looking at our stats, we have 3 great hitters, 1 decent, and 5 horrendous. Cain-Gordon-Butler have 130 ops+ numbers which is great, Alcides at 107+ but he brings speed and of course great defense. There isn't much balance in our lineup. I can't believe Sal has 1 walk this year in 93 PA. Seriously Sal - that's embarrassing. By comparison Frenchy has 3 walks in 96 PA. When you're walking at 1/3 the rate Frenchy is, that's a problem.


It pains me to say it but it might be time to start platooning Sal a bit more. His career splits are drastic and heavily tilted towards hitting LHP. (81 ops+ vs 153+) Kottaras is about league average vs RHP. So it might be worth it to start sitting Sal to rest him whenever a tough RH is on the mound.

[Nightfyre]

I completely disagree. Salvador, Hosmer and Moose playing must be a priority. They need as many ABs as they can get. They are on the verge of being 23/24. Getting them up to speed will directly impact our chances of winning after we must part ways with Gordon and/or Butler.

[Cephalic Trauma]

Platoon salvy, who's an amazing defender and good with the bat?

Jesus, dude. You are wrong on almost everything. Entering CoMo status here.

[C3HIEF3S]

Platoon Salvy?

His defense alone makes up for whatever lack of offense there is.

[-King-]

Is there a stat to most games postponed in a season? We have to be well on pace to break it.

[Fairplay]

I had to re-read the benching Salvy a few times because I thought I read it wrong.

You can't be serious.

[Cephalic Trauma]

Originally Posted by Fairplay

I had to re-read the benching Salvy a few times because I thought I read it wrong.

You can't be serious.

Bench Salvy for George Kottaras

[Nightfyre]

I read an article today on baseball prospectus that indicated that "(Jose) Molina had a heck of a week, saving the Rays nine net strikes in only 22 innings." Maybe that's because the umpire was giving Alex Cobb strikes that were damn near four inches off the zone. Catcher framing seems like a giant crock of shit to me. It has as much to do with shitty umpiring as it does with the catcher's performance. Somebody, please explain to me how this is not a crock.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

By "untradeable", I refer to untradeable for 95% of MLB players. Yeah if James Shields or Cliff Lee is available then we'll put our top guys out there. We'll kick the tires and, in the case of Shields, pull the trigger. If the Phils make Lee available we'll look for sure although his salary would make any deal a nonstarter. If Stanton is made availabe sure - Zimmer is put on the table. You get the point.


Teams generally don't put decent (let alone good) vets on the table for A or AA ball semi-prospects. Sam Selman or Brickhouse might excite you but these guys rarely return anyone decent. It's a catch 22 as it is: if Utley is healthy & hitting then he won't be cheap. If he's not, then you don't really want him anyway.

Fair enough on 'untradeable.' You're right ... we're not going to see Dayton Moore do something as astronomically stupid as trading a blue-chip prospect for a mediocre or slightly above-average player. No Zambrano for Kazmir trades here.

Selman or Brickhouse would be throw-ins for Philadelphia in an Utley deal. Neither would be the headliner. They would be lottery ticket pieces that help you get to the deal (See: Patrick Leonard in the Shields/Myers deal).

Look at what Philadelphia got in return for a very similar player in terms of value just a year ago. The Pence deal can be used at least for a ballpark figure on what Utley would cost. Yeah, Utley is a better player, but he's also older and riskier because of his health issue (and controlled for one full season less).

The catcher the Phillies got, Tommy Joseph, is the biggest piece. He's never sniffed a top 100/101 list, and he slots somewhere around 5 in the Phillies prospect rankings (which is not hard to do). He'd MAYBE be a top 15 guy in the Royals system.

The pitcher, Seth Rosin, is also someone who never has sniffed a top 100/101/whatever.

If the Phillies want a limited upside guy who is close, the Royals have plenty of those (Gio, Colon could be pieces of a deal). Heck, even Chris Dwyer - who has cut his career walk rate of 4.5 by 50 percent this year - would be a useful piece of a deal.

The key piece or exciting piece of the deal would have to be a lower minors guys. Someone like Calixte or Cuthbert or Bonifacio.

The Royals certainly have tradeable pieces, and more than enough to make a reasonable deal for Utley (whose value you're severely overrating).