Casey Martin fiasco

[Mi_chief_fan]

Now, i'll admit it: I [b]HATE[/b] golf. Can't play. Can't stand to watch. The very thought of calling these spoiled, rich brats 'athletes' makes me either want to laugh uncontrollably, or vomit(it's a fine line, you know).

However, the whole Casey Martin fiasco really bugs me. Those who say that he should be able to use this cart, as a result of the disabilities act, are really disillusioned. Somehow, I doubt the NBA, NHL or NFL would allow such a thing either.If so, Joe Montana might have led the Chiefs to a couple of Super Bowl wins.

I guess what it comes down to is this: is golf a 'sport'? For them to be taken seriously, they really need the Supreme Court to turn down Martins request.

If Martin wins, i'll be entering my golf cart in this year's Boston Marathon. :D:

[administrator]

DanT,

I agree that walking versus riding doesn't make a big difference... BUT the PGA has a rule that has been around a LONG time and if Casey Martin wants to play in the PGA he needs to abide by their rules.
The NBA has rules against using devices to augment my height. It isn't my fault that I'm not 6'10"... so using Casey Martin's arguement, shouldn't I be able to wear 10" lifts and play in the NBA.

Playing golf is not a RIGHT it is a privelage to those who fit within the framework. If Casey Martin doesn't fit that framework... I'm sorry but too bad.

--Kyle

~Read the story "Harrison Bergeron" by Kurt Vonnegut if you want to see what this type of thinking can lead to.

[DanT]

Kyle,

10" lifts could conceivably give you an advantage in baseketball. I haven't heard any credible argument that Martin would enjoy a meaningful advantage over other golfers by having a cart.

I think you might want to reread Harrison Bergeron: from what I recall from the couple of times I've read it, the equalizing handicaps were applied to gifted people. I don't think any serious person thinks that being able to walk a golf course is anything to write home about. It certainly isn't anything that defines who is or who is not considered a great golfer. I used to walk 50+ holes at Swope Park in a day and I still suck at golf. ;)

[Edited by DanT on 01-17-2001 at 07:59 PM]

[DanT]

The Harrison Bergeron approach would be to apply a handicap to the golfers without the crippling and completely exceptional disease that Martin has. The Harrison Bergeron approach would diminish the level of competition. The approach that allows Martin to use a cart would enhance the level of competition, for the same reason that getting rid of the color barrier enhanced the level of competition in baseball. Any limitation on who gets to play at the highest level of a sport that is not a reasonable one necessarily hinders competition by denying otherwise worthy competitors a chance.

[administrator]

DanT,

I agree that it was a weak analogy..but you see my point.
IT is a definite disability...but why doeas the PGA OWE Casey Martin the oppurtunity to play. I agree that walking vs. riding isn't a big deal... but the PGA feels differently. I don't think that we should start legislating what professional sports organizations can and can't determine as competetive factors.

I don't like the PGA's decision... but I dislike more the idea that this dispute should be resolved by the courts. It is unfortunate... but so is life.

What about my absurd arguement that I should be allowed to wear lifts and play in the NBA? It the same equalization arguement.

--Kyle

[Mark M]

I'm going to have to agree with DanT on this one. The guy has a [i]handicap[/i] that is beyond his control. I smoke, drink and have scoleosis and don't find walking 18 holes all that difficult ... and I had to carry my own damn bag. These guys have some poor schlep carry it for them. If walking is such a big deal, let Tiger tote his own sticks.

And for those of you that do golf and think he's getting some kind of unfair advantage, try playing with one good leg and then tell me how easy it is. If this guy can make the cut playing on a bad leg, then let him do it, cart or not.

The analogy of platform shoes in the NBA is ridiculous. Sure, it's not your fault that you're not tall, but neither was Mugsy Boges (sp?) and he seemed to do okay. Hell, my mom's taller than that guy. It's the [i]skills[/i] that matter. Jordan is one of the greatest athletes of all time, and I don't see him earning his tour card any time soon.

MM
~~Doesn't see how a cart makes a difference if you can sink a 30 foot putt.

[administrator]

DanT,

btw... I am very impressed with the fact that you understood the Vonnegut reference.

--Kyle

[DanT]

Kyle,

I agree that I would rather that the PGA figure out stuff on its own.

I can't really comment too much on your "lifts"-argument because I'm not one to think that height alone is what separates the 80 inchers in the NBA from the 70 inchers in office buildings.

I think that Martin's driving ability certainly makes him comparable to the ballerina and the great thinker in Harrison Bergeron. Anyone ranked in the top 10 on the PGA Tour on that dimension is exceptional. The things that separate the Tour cardholders from regular duffers have to do with their ability to drive the ball, to attack a hole wisely, to putt, etc. They have nothing at all to do with being able to walk 18 holes.

The Harrison Bergeron story was one that made a big impact on me, especially when I first read it a long time ago. I had spent a lot of my public school career in gifted programs and had to think a lot about what are the good and bad things about giftedness, its identification and its nurturing. I do not see how allowing an exceptional athlete to compete against other exceptional athletes by making a simple accomodation for him that does not give him any meaningful competitive advantage lessens what is good and noble about excellence in sport.

[DanT]

Hey Kyle,

By the way, have great fun in Spain. I've never met anyone who didn't love it. If I ever make it to Europe, that's one place I definitely would like to check out. (So far the only foreign city I've been in is beautiful St. Saint Marie, Ontario ;) ).

[administrator]

DanT,

If you make it out in the next year or so.... you have a place to stay in Barcelona!

(This goes for any of the Planeteers!)

--Kyle

~Hoping for some visits from some Chiefs Fans!

[DanT]

Kyle,

Awesome, I'll keep that in mind.

Be sure to scout Barcelona's NFLE team for us!

[Raiderhater]

I hope he loses. Nothing against the guy or golf (wether it is or isn't a sport), but the PGA is a private organization and the federal government has no right making the rules for a private organization. And I think they will probally rule that way because that is the way they ruled (rightfuly so) on the Boy Scouts.

[administrator]

raiderhader,

Damnit! I agree with you on this one... wonders never cease!


DanT,

I believe Maslowski played for the Dragons last year so hopefully the Chiefs can find some more players like him in Barcelona!



--Kyle

~Unofficial Chiefs Scout in Europe

[Raiderhater]

Kyle,
No kiddin'? Wow that is something that you don't see every day. So tell me, how does it feel to be on the right side for once?:D

[administrator]

raiderhader,

All of a sudden, I feel dirty! ;)


--Kyle

[Raiderhater]

Kyle,
LOL! Oh c'mon. It can't be that bad, can it?:)