Video of Police shooting man 30+ times

[Mr. Laz]

Video captures Michigan man's shooting by police
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/16/us/mic...ing/index.html

From Jason Carroll and Sheila Steffen, CNN
updated 10:12 AM EDT, Fri August 17, 2012

Man killed by cops, shot multiple times

STORY HIGHLIGHTS

• Milton Hall was killed in a confrontation with police in Saginaw, Michigan
• "It appeared to be a firing squad dressed in police uniforms," his mother says
• Prosecutors and state police are investigating Hall's killing
• His family says he was mentally ill and questions why the probe is taking so long

Saginaw, Michigan (CNN) -- Three days before Independence Day, Milton Hall died in a fusillade of police gunfire outside a strip mall.
He had been arguing with officers in a parking lot next to a shuttered Chinese restaurant when he was shot, in full view of passing motorists and while he was holding some sort of knife. Saginaw County Prosecutor Michael Thomas said later that the squad of police confronting him opened fire "because apparently, at this point in time, he was threatening to assault police."

Thomas' office and the Michigan State Police are investigating Hall's death. Saginaw Police Chief Gerald Cliff said Hall was "known to be an assaultive person" with "a long history" of contacts with law enforcement, "not only with police from our department but with the county."
Hall's cousin, Mike Washington, acknowledged Hall had been jailed for minor offenses like vagrancy in the past, but, "He was not violent." And Hall's mother is growing impatient with the probe and questions why police opened fire so furiously on her son, whom she said was mentally ill.

The chart blog: Mental health

"It appeared to be a firing squad dressed in police uniforms," Jewel Hall told CNN from her hometown of Albuquerque, New Mexico. "There was another way. They did not have to kill him. He had not done anything. He was not violent. He was not a murderer. He was not a criminal."
Jewel Hall said her son had once trained as a civil right activist, been an avid reader and played football. He had lived in Saginaw for 35 years and received Social Security disability payments for a mental illness, but, "He knew his rights."

"Everybody knew him. The police knew him well," she said. "So that's another question: they knew him, so why? Why did they kill him?"

WJRT: Community questions police shooting

The July 1 shooting happened in a parking lot on West Genessee Avenue, a busy commercial strip on the north side of Saginaw. In a video purchased by CNN, shot by a motorist from across the street, the 49-year-old Hall is seen arguing with a half-dozen officers. For more than three minutes, he walks back and forth, and at one time appears to crouch in a "karate stance," according to the man who captured the scene.

Police said Hall had just had a run-in with a convenience store clerk. On the video, he tells police, "My name is Milton Hall, I just called 911. My name is Milton, and I'm p---ed off." When an officer tells him to put the knife down, he responds, "I ain't putting s--t down." He appears unimpressed by a police dog, telling officers, "Let him go. Let the motherf---ing dog go."

Finally, he turns to the left of the frame, where another officer had moved out of view a short time earlier. It's then that the police open fire with a reported 46 shots in a five-second hail of bullets.
"I'm stunned that six human beings would stand in front of one human being and fire 46 shots," Jewel Hall said. "I just don't understand that. It's a lot of pain in that because it only takes one shot, so the question is why?"

She questioned why none of the cameras in the police cars at the scene recorded the shooting -- "none of them work."

"So that's the question I have and the community has is, what's taking so long?" she said. "Why is not being transparent?"

Lou Palumbo, a former Long Island police officer, told CNN's "Anderson Cooper 360" that the video is "a perceptive nightmare" for a police department and could reflect a lack of training by the officers.

"This wasn't a scenario where he was discharging a weapon in their direction," he said.

But Palumbo added that the shooting may yet be determined to be justifiable. "One of the things the public has to understand, an individual wielding a knife at you at about 20 feet can be on top of you in a split second," he said. "The public doesn't know this because they don't do this for a living."

Neither state police nor the prosecutor's office would comment on the investigation. In a written statement to CNN, the state police said, "Our focus is on conducting a complete and thorough investigation, rather than a hasty one."

But Saginaw City Councilman Norman Braddock, who also has criticized the pace of the investigation, said the probe should be a "top priority."
When CNN showed Braddock the video, which he hadn't seen before, he said, "This is disturbing."

"I can see what people are traumatized at, looking at something like that," Braddock said. "We need answers."

Jewel Hall said her family is conducting its own investigation into the shooting, "and at the end of that investigation we will decide what next steps to take with our legal advisors."

[Rausch]

Police said Hall had just had a run-in with a convenience store clerk. On the video, he tells police, "My name is Milton Hall, I just called 911. My name is Milton, and I'm p---ed off." When an officer tells him to put the knife down, he responds, "I ain't putting s--t down." He appears unimpressed by a police dog, telling officers, "Let him go. Let the motherf---ing dog go."

Yeah, the COPS were the ones out of line...

[BIG_DADDY]

Originally Posted by Rausch

Yeah, the COPS were the ones out of line...

So your justification for using the guy for target practice 30+ times was that he was out of line? He was friggen reeruned dude. Based upon this maybe we should just line all of them up against the wall and do society a real big favor because they are all bound to get out of line at some point.

[WilliamTheIrish]

Holy shit! Thar was brutal. And I'm only talking about pete getting filleted by DJ as pete was attempting to be a trial lawyer. Pete, if you remember one thing in life, let it be this: "Pete, shut up"/

I don't think there's a chance in hell that any of the cops could be convicted of murder. Once 5 cops start shooting, in about 5 seconds they are going to accumulate 30 or so shots.

I don't think complaints about this are out of order. This incident is merely a symptom of 30+ years of yanking cops from beats and having them looked at as outsiders by the community. And while I think it was brutal to the naked eye, and this man was needlessly killed, it's what we have allowed the police force to become.

The old question of "Who watches the watchers"? has never been more relevant. I want to see the public with cameras rolling point out flaws that can take examples like this and use them to discover ways to lead to safer ends for cops and suspect. And as much as I hate to see this violent death of a citizen, these cops were probably within there training and legal scope to grease the guy.

[BIG_DADDY]

Originally Posted by WilliamTheIrish

Holy shit! Thar was brutal. And I'm only talking about pete getting filleted by DJ as pete was attempting to be a trial lawyer. Pete, if you remember one thing in life, let it be this: "Pete, shut up"/

I don't think there's a chance in hell that any of the cops could be convicted of murder. Once 5 cops start shooting, in about 5 seconds they are going to accumulate 30 or so shots.

I don't think complaints about this are out of order. This incident is merely a symptom of 30+ years of yanking cops from beats and having them looked at as outsiders by the community. And while I think it was brutal to the naked eye, and this man was needlessly killed, it's what we have allowed the police force to become.

The old question of "Who watches the watchers"? has never been more relevant. I want to see the public with cameras rolling point out flaws that can take examples like this and use them to discover ways to lead to safer ends for cops and suspect. And as much as I hate to see this violent death of a citizen, these cops were probably within there training and legal scope to grease the guy.

I have no doubt they will walk with a big ol bonus, that being all the paid time off.

[WilliamTheIrish]

Originally Posted by BIG_DADDY

I have no doubt they will walk with a big ol bonus, that being all the paid time off.

I dunno. As I grow older, I wonder about the mental scars that these cops carry from incidents like this. They already divorce at about 3x the rate of the general public. They are at greater risk of heart attack, stroke and alcoholism. And one day maybe it's a former cop that's a taken a bad turn in life holding the knife in front of 7 badges.

I'm not making excuses for them. Just pointing out that this is the law enforcement that we have allowed to become the norm.

[BIG_DADDY]

Originally Posted by WilliamTheIrish

I dunno. As I grow older, I wonder about the mental scars that these cops carry from incidents like this. They already divorce at about 3x the rate of the general public. They are at greater risk of heart attack, stroke and alcoholism. And one day maybe it's a former cop that's a taken a bad turn in life holding the knife in front of 7 badges.

I'm not making excuses for them. Just pointing out that this is the law enforcement that we have allowed to become the norm.

I think as a society in general we just think cops are these really strong willed courageous protectors when often times it's quite the opposite. I think many of us know that guy who was one of the biggest pussies in school who got sick of it and decided he wanted to be a cop. We take this wilting flower and give him a badge and gun and send him out there. It’s really scary stuff.

I remember as a kid I was going to help this really hot girl who said her boyfriend was abusing her. I was there when he got home. Long story short he basically proved to me that a lot of what she told me was a lie. During that time she left and went next door and called the cops. I come out of back room into the hallway to a see a cop with a pistol screaming at me to get down. I can hear her yelling that I was the wrong guy. I very slowly moved my hands in the air and went to the ground. I still remember looking at that guy. He was scared to friggen death. His gun was shaking, hell his whole body was shaking. By the time it was over and they quit questioning me I could still see the guy looked like a bolt of lightning had passed through him. I still feel lucky today that he didn’t just crap his pants and put a cap in my ass just out of pure fear even though there was nothing in front of him to substantiate it.

[R8RFAN]

As far as they were away they could have easily made a non lethal shot or for that matter that taser gun shoots like 50 feet, Beanbag guns? wtf?

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by R8ers

As far as they were away they could have easily made a non lethal shot or for that matter that taser gun shoots like 50 feet, Beanbag guns? wtf?

Here we go again with the "leg shot."

[R8RFAN]

Originally Posted by jd1020

Here we go again with the "leg shot."

Dude, I am as big a fan as anyone of guns and I am not a cop hater but Jesus Christ this is ridiculous...

[nstygma]

interesting book:

http://www.amazon.com/On-Killing-Psy.../dp/0316330116

Lt. Col. Dave Grossman draws unsettling, even sinister parallels between the psychological conditioning required to make soldiers kill in war and the similar effect that videos, films, games and movies have in civilian society.

[TLO]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

you **** with cops, you open the door to that slippery path where things can go south very fast. Start screaming about how you know your rights, you arn't doing anything wrong always works so well.

Just play nice, answer a few questions politely and everyone goes on with their day. You chose agressive actions or attitude, you are going to have a bad day.

Agreed.

Also pay officers more. They have to deal with so much bullshit.

I think this was excessive. This situation could have been handled better.

[ghak99]

Originally Posted by BIG_DADDY

I think as a society in general we just think cops are these really strong willed courageous protectors when often times it's quite the opposite. I think many of us know that guy who was one of the biggest pussies in school who got sick of it and decided he wanted to be a cop. We take this wilting flower and give him a badge and gun and send him out there. It’s really scary stuff.

^this

I know two males and a female who I feel have no business carrying a badge. Fortunately, one of them quit to increase his pay substantially in another field. The other two are still working in law enforcement and I hope they are never forced into a complicated situation where they have to make a split second decision while drawn.

Being a city cop appears to be a fairly thankless underpaying job. I wouldn't do it for what they get paid.

[Wallcrawler]

Roger Murtaugh: See how easy that was? Boom, still alive. Now we question him. You know why we question him? Because I got him in the leg. I didn't shoot him full of holes or try to jump off a building with him.


Martin Riggs: Hey, that's not fair. The building guy lived.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by ghak99

Being a city cop appears to be a fairly thankless underpaying job. I wouldn't do it for what they get paid.

Depends entirely on where they live. If you live in NY, CA, or other similarly overpriced states then they are underpaid. But they make a pretty good living in the Midwest.

[ghak99]

Originally Posted by jd1020

Depends entirely on where they live. If you live in NY, CA, or other similarly overpriced states then they are underpaid. But they make a pretty good living in the Midwest.

Perhaps KC is different, but they make jack shit in this little Midwest town.