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Old 09-19-2013, 11:17 PM  
CrazyPhuD CrazyPhuD is offline
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Yet another mass shooting

Who wants to bet no 'AR shotguns' were used and no background checks were passed......

Honestly I'm surprised it actually made the news since I'd bet all the victims are people of color.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/11-people-i...ry?id=20314181

Quote:
At least 11 people, including a 3-year-old child, were shot at a basketball court on Chicago's South Side Thursday night, authorities said.

A total of 10 ambulances responded to the scene near Cornell Square Park around 10:15 p.m. local time and transported the 11 victims to various hospitals, fire officials said. Five victims were in serious condition and four others were in critical condition, according to fire officials.

No information was given about potential suspects or the identities of the victims.
If only 'assault weapons' and high capacity magazines were illegal tragedies such as these could have been prevented......
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Old 09-22-2013, 07:03 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post
If you want people to take you serious and believe the claims you make, you're going to have to provide some data and references to back them up. That has nothing to do with pleasing Direckshun. That's just how logical debates work amongst grown ups.
WTF is wrong with you people in here? I'm not going to abide by any of your liberal "playground" rules, and for the second reason, I cannot post links yet, so bite it.
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Old 09-22-2013, 07:09 PM   #92
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Are you liberals really that damned stupid, that you need links to prove that your gun control laws are not working for shit? Are you that stupid, that you cannot see the writing on the wall, in places like Chicago, LA, New York, New Orleans, and other places like that? Links have been posted to support what many of us have been saying, but you libtards have been ignoring them like a bunch of spoiled brats. Go ahead, and flop like a fish out of water.
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Old 09-22-2013, 09:52 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Mod98Ban View Post
Nobody said anyone had to "play" by your rules, except you. I beg to differ on your rules. You are an idiot, and you, and your parties ideas prove just how lost you really are. You like to avoid the obvious, like the high murder rate in the bigger cities, that have the strictest gun control, and say that it's not caused by the gun control your party has put forth. If that is the case, then what is causing it? Your ideas are obviously not working.
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Originally Posted by Mod98Ban View Post
WTF is wrong with you people in here? I'm not going to abide by any of your liberal "playground" rules, and for the second reason, I cannot post links yet, so bite it.
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Originally Posted by Mod98Ban View Post
Are you liberals really that damned stupid, that you need links to prove that your gun control laws are not working for shit? Are you that stupid, that you cannot see the writing on the wall, in places like Chicago, LA, New York, New Orleans, and other places like that? Links have been posted to support what many of us have been saying, but you libtards have been ignoring them like a bunch of spoiled brats. Go ahead, and flop like a fish out of water.
Yes, we need something more from you than just stating your conclusion over and over again, with no supporting reasoning and tons of insults.

That's how conversations between adults who are exchanging ideas work.

If your idea of productive conversation is "this is right, and it's so obvious it's right I feel no need to explain it, and you can bend over a barrel if you don't like it" -- well, you're wrong. It might feel cathartic to type out, but there's nowhere for someone like me to go with that stuff, other than (a.) simply disagree with you, and (b.) ask you to explain why you feel the way you feel.
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Old 09-22-2013, 10:00 PM   #94
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyPhuD View Post
Fear and Hate are two sides of the same coin. Fear is used by those who hate to promote their hate. The lynchings in the 60s were justified as mob mentality based upon 'fear', fear of crime caused by blacks, fear of blacks taking their jobs, and fear of blacks taking their women. You could say the racial violence was all based in fear, but we know it's hate.
I disagree, but this is fair.

I still think even racism is rooted ultimately in fear. Hate derives entirely from fear, in my estimation.

But we're not that far apart, really.

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Originally Posted by CrazyPhuD View Post
That's the same issue with the anti-gun movement. Rifles have next to no impact in crime, simply put they are not great causes of harm. Handguns you could position otherwise. So why aren't people trying to push to ban handguns? Well it's supreme court has said you can't. So instead of trying to ban handguns they look to ban something...anything.

As a result they focus on rifles since the supreme court has not yet said they cannot ban rifles. But they don't focus on rifles because they are a significant contributor to crime. They focus rifles because some of them are able to be marketed against because they can be called 'military type' or they can invent terms that promote fear like 'assault weapon'.

These aren't technical terms, they are marketing terms, much like the term 'partial birth abortion' was invented to paint the mental image that late term abortions was about killing children.(late term isn't insidious, but partial birth is).

These tactics and techniques of hate aren't unique to the anti firearm movement, they exist in all movements who have decided to make laws against some behavior because they do not morally approve of it. Are all the anti-gay laws about fear or about hate? This depends upon how you look at the problem. I would say they are all the same motivations, all are based in hate and use fear to promote them.

Case in point the state of California. On the desk of the governor is a bill that has passed both houses. That bill would make EVERY semi-automatic rifle that has a detachable magazine a 'felony'. Considering that 44 people were killed with all rifles in California in 2011, rifles are not a significant crime or public threat especially when compared to other activities. But that law would make it a FELONY to disagree with the state.

Is a law that makes it a felony for an activity that millions of the citizens of the state currently do lawfully and without harm to anyone not based in hate? You can't say you're 'afraid' of rifles with detachable magazines because the odds that you will be harmed by one in astronomically low. In CA one in 1 MILLION of it's citizens are killed by a rifle every year.

Is that the standard by which we should declare an activity of millions of citizens to be a felony. I mean you can suggest it's still fear but that fear is so irrational that it's hard to push that. That may have been fear at one point, but it's long since turned into hate and we should call the anti-gun movement what it is.

It's like the anti-gay movement, the KKK, etc....things that are all based upon someone moral disapproval and hatred of an activity. It is a sad world when we have the president, who himself is a member of at least one discriminated class, who is now promoting a culture of hate.
You touched on a ton of stuff here, I'd even risk to say you're all over the place here, as I can count on both hands places where I'd disagree with your interpretation of the facts.

But ultimately, at least when it comes to this forum, it's not the gun control folks who lose their shit when this subject comes up. But perhaps you honestly think my responses in this thread (and Aries Walker, who's really the only other outspoken gun control supporter on this forum) constitute irrational fear and hate? If so, that's really puzzling to me.

My guess, however, is that you're talking of the "gun control movement" broadly, in which case I'm not going to say there isn't excessive rhetoric there. I don't think there's any question there is.

But to ignore the fear/hate on the pro-gun side of the aisle, which is vast, ever present, and on constant display in this forum, is a really intense case of selection bias.
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Old 09-22-2013, 10:02 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
...there's nowhere for someone like me to go with that stuff, other than (a.) simply disagree with you, and (b.) ask you to explain why you feel the way you feel.
Dude, he can post a million links here and he'll probably be met by people who (a.) simply disagree with him, or (b.) tell him to shove an AIDS monkey up his ass because they simply disagree with him.
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Old 09-22-2013, 10:03 PM   #96
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco View Post
Dude, he can post a million links here and he'll probably be met by people who (a.) simply disagree with him, or (b.) tell him to shove an AIDS monkey up his ass because they simply disagree with him.
Welcome to my world.

The difference is, I choose to actually swing the bat.
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Old 09-22-2013, 10:48 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Mod98Ban View Post
With guns of any kind being illegal in Chicago, things like this shouldn't be happening. Guns, murder, and attempted murder are against the law, and criminals obey the laws, so this story has to be fabricated by Fox News. And yes, I'm being sarcastic as HELL. This story just proves that outlawing guns will not make any city safer, and it damned sure won't stop mass shootings. This proves that, so all of you anti-gun idiots need to come up with another plan of attack.
This is clearly George Bushes fault.
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Old 09-22-2013, 11:00 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Welcome to my world.

The difference is, I choose to actually swing the bat.
Links have been posted, but you, and your kind choose to ignore them. Evidently your party's doctrine doesn't agree with the posted links, so they don't think they are viable. Just be a good useful idiot, and continue trying to spread more liberal stupidity. It's impossible to have an adult conversation with a spoiled brat like yourself. People that can post links, have done so, and you've chose to ignore all of them. You act like a 4 year old, that's not getting her way. If you, and your liberal party's way of thinking on gun control was working, then why does Chicago lead the nation in murders? Chicago had 500 murders last year. Gun control does nothing to take guns out of the hands of the criminals. All gun control does, is take guns away from law abiding citizens, which makes them much more likely to be assaulted, and/or shot. In case you didn't know, or realize, criminals do not follow laws, which is why they are called criminals. No amount of laws will change that fact. Most of the recent mass shootings have taken place in gun free zones, and that was another of the stupid liberal ideas. You libtards just don't get it, do you? How long has the war against illegal drugs been going on? How successful has it been? If you libtards actually think you will succeed in outlawing guns, then I have a gut feeling, that it will cause another civil war. That war won't be won by the side hating guns, because you hate them, so you probably shouldn't have any.
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Old 09-22-2013, 11:16 PM   #99
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by Mod98Ban View Post
Links have been posted, but you, and your kind choose to ignore them. Evidently your party's doctrine doesn't agree with the posted links, so they don't think they are viable. Just be a good useful idiot, and continue trying to spread more liberal stupidity. It's impossible to have an adult conversation with a spoiled brat like yourself. People that can post links, have done so, and you've chose to ignore all of them. You act like a 4 year old, that's not getting her way. If you, and your liberal party's way of thinking on gun control was working, then why does Chicago lead the nation in murders? Chicago had 500 murders last year. Gun control does nothing to take guns out of the hands of the criminals. All gun control does, is take guns away from law abiding citizens, which makes them much more likely to be assaulted, and/or shot. In case you didn't know, or realize, criminals do not follow laws, which is why they are called criminals. No amount of laws will change that fact. Most of the recent mass shootings have taken place in gun free zones, and that was another of the stupid liberal ideas. You libtards just don't get it, do you? How long has the war against illegal drugs been going on? How successful has it been? If you libtards actually think you will succeed in outlawing guns, then I have a gut feeling, that it will cause another civil war. That war won't be won by the side hating guns, because you hate them, so you probably shouldn't have any.
My god, where to start.

How about the notion that gun control supporters want to repeal the Second Amendment.

Or, really, anywhere. This whole post is adorable.
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Old 09-23-2013, 12:23 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
My god, where to start.

How about the notion that gun control supporters want to repeal the Second Amendment.

Or, really, anywhere. This whole post is adorable.
If you want links, which you will ignore anyways, just Google "gun control not working", and see what comes up. If I could post links, I would post so many in one post, that it would make your brain rattle around in your head, like a BB in a box car.
You might not like guns, and that is your right.
You may not believe in God, and that is your choice.
But if someone breaks into your home, the first two things you will do are:
1.) Call someone with a gun.
2.) Pray that they get there in time.
Good luck!

Last edited by Mod98Ban; 09-23-2013 at 12:27 AM.. Reason: Left out something.
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Old 09-23-2013, 01:22 AM   #101
CrazyPhuD CrazyPhuD is offline
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I disagree, but this is fair.

I still think even racism is rooted ultimately in fear. Hate derives entirely from fear, in my estimation.

But we're not that far apart, really.
The issue of fear and hate and how it permeates our society is one that we don't look at enough because it requires a degree of introspection most people don't want to do. People don't want to look at their actions and say damn I'm doing the same thing that I hate someone is doing to me. This isn't a left or right issue. I laugh because I see the gun control movement and the anti-abortion movement as brothers from another mother. Both are fighting almost the same battle using the same tactics, they just happen to be supported by polar opposite political viewpoints.

But the issue of fear/discrimination/hate is simply something that every living creature has to face. Why? Because it's built into our DNA. All life has survived at this point because we associate with those like us and fear/hate those not like us. Simply put if our ancestors thought the saber tooth tiger was cute and cuddly we probably wouldn't be here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
You touched on a ton of stuff here, I'd even risk to say you're all over the place here, as I can count on both hands places where I'd disagree with your interpretation of the facts.

But ultimately, at least when it comes to this forum, it's not the gun control folks who lose their shit when this subject comes up. But perhaps you honestly think my responses in this thread (and Aries Walker, who's really the only other outspoken gun control supporter on this forum) constitute irrational fear and hate? If so, that's really puzzling to me.

My guess, however, is that you're talking of the "gun control movement" broadly, in which case I'm not going to say there isn't excessive rhetoric there. I don't think there's any question there is.

But to ignore the fear/hate on the pro-gun side of the aisle, which is vast, ever present, and on constant display in this forum, is a really intense case of selection bias.
When I talk about fear and hate I'm not generally talking about what's posted here(although there can be some of that). I talk about the general rhetoric at the highest levels. Note those pushing gun control aren't always the politicians in fact they often aren't. Its the groups and the lobbyists behind them. Those are the ones who foster a culture of fear and hate because it's frankly part of a larger strategy to accomplish what they want.

Hell in some cases our politicians can just be ignorant dupes. Like this....



If you don't even understand what in the hell you're legislating then why are we passing it??? The problem is that many of the restrictions in place are like this, anything they could market against to create a ban even if functionally it makes no difference.

I'm sure there are many cases where I'm trying to put too much information into too small of a space which can be confusing for some and also seem over the place at times. There's a ton of context in my head and I can't always share all of it and sometimes forget that not everyone shares the same context. Sometimes I have the time to edit and clean things up...sometimes I don't. For me time is always a shortage.

Part of the problem is that I've had to become aware of more things than I'd like to be. While many may not see it there's also some truly evil things being passed in state legislatures in the name of gun control. I mean naked malice. Something that could have only been written to harm another group. This is why I talk about it as hate, it's really becoming that even if people don't see it as such. It's depressing about humanity.
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Old 09-23-2013, 01:37 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Yes, we need something more from you than just stating your conclusion over and over again, with no supporting reasoning and tons of insults.

That's how conversations between adults who are exchanging ideas work.

If your idea of productive conversation is "this is right, and it's so obvious it's right I feel no need to explain it, and you can bend over a barrel if you don't like it" -- well, you're wrong. It might feel cathartic to type out, but there's nowhere for someone like me to go with that stuff, other than (a.) simply disagree with you, and (b.) ask you to explain why you feel the way you feel.
There you go. Good post.
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Old 09-23-2013, 03:07 AM   #103
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There you go. Good post.
And neither one of you can grasp the fact that I cannot post any links yet??? How many times do I have to state that fact? If you don't like it, then get it changed, so I can post links, and the problem will be solved.
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Old 09-23-2013, 05:27 AM   #104
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And neither one of you can grasp the fact that I cannot post any links yet??? How many times do I have to state that fact? If you don't like it, then get it changed, so I can post links, and the problem will be solved.
You have to have a certain amount of posts before you can do that. Mean time just participate and contribute, you'll get there.
Or not. Up to you.
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Old 09-23-2013, 05:50 AM   #105
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And neither one of you can grasp the fact that I cannot post any links yet??? How many times do I have to state that fact? If you don't like it, then get it changed, so I can post links, and the problem will be solved.
You could copy and paste and cite your source. Better than nothing I guess...
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