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Old 09-28-2013, 04:02 PM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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Boehner's Deal to Avoid a Shut Down

Seems reasonable...
  • Repeal of the Medical Device Tax
  • One year delay on the individual mandate
  • The Senate's Continuing Resolution gets pushed to December 15th
  • Troops get paid regardless


http://www.speaker.gov/press-release...stop-obamacare

Last edited by Taco John; 09-28-2013 at 04:13 PM..
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Old 09-30-2013, 10:58 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson View Post
Maybe a single-payer system would be a better option?

Yes Every single payer pays his own way and get off the tit
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Old 09-30-2013, 10:58 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson View Post
Maybe a single-payer system would be a better option?
IMHO That's what they are banking on. Make it so onerous that we have no choice but to go to a single payer.
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Old 09-30-2013, 11:06 AM   #153
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Truth of the matter is that 17 repubs will vote, at some point, to either not shut down, or reopen the govt. They will be skewered otherwise and the party knows it.

The only way to get rid of Obamacare is to win a national election...both houses and the presidency. Otherwise all of this is just, as my grandpa used to say, pissin' in the wind.
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Old 09-30-2013, 11:13 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by Kingsburg#12 View Post
I guess Democrats forget that the only reason they made gains last year was bcuz conservatives were busy getting audited by the regimes henchmen. The same henchmen that are in charge of Obamacare. Henchmen = IRS for you low information voters. IRS = Tax collectors for you 57% that pay no income tax. IRS= Robin Hood to OWS shitheads.
How stupid.
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Old 09-30-2013, 11:19 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by 2bikemike View Post
And Yet Obama voted against raising the debt ceiling as a senator. Go figure.
True. But it really wasn't in danger of not passing. Would he have voted that way if he was the last vote needed to pass it? We'll never know for sure, but I really doubt it. The Ds made no effort to block it and they didn't make ridiculous demands in exchange for passing it.
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Old 09-30-2013, 11:20 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
True. But it really wasn't in danger of not passing. Would he have voted that way if he was the last vote needed to pass it? We'll never know for sure, but I really doubt it. The Ds made no effort to block it and they didn't make ridiculous demands in exchange for passing it.
So you admit he lacks integrity then. got it.
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Old 09-30-2013, 11:22 AM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
True. But it really wasn't in danger of not passing. Would he have voted that way if he was the last vote needed to pass it? We'll never know for sure, but I really doubt it. The Ds made no effort to block it and they didn't make ridiculous demands in exchange for passing it.
There really is nothing ridiculous about the demands. Both Dem an Repubs hate the medical device tax and this offers a way out of it for both parties. As far as the delay goes, the system is so fugged up and so full of glitches that a one year delay is a no brainer. Its much better than rolling out a POS system. Hell they aren't even ready to verify income of individuals applying. The system is so ripe for fraud that its a joke.

And BTW the Vote was 52-48 in Obama's Ney vote for increasing the Debt. So it wasn't that far off.
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Old 09-30-2013, 11:23 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
So you admit he lacks integrity then. got it.
I admit he's a politician. It was a political move. He knew it would pass.
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Old 09-30-2013, 11:29 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by 2bikemike View Post
There really is nothing ridiculous about the demands. Both Dem an Repubs hate the medical device tax and this offers a way out of it for both parties. As far as the delay goes, the system is so fugged up and so full of glitches that a one year delay is a no brainer. Its much better than rolling out a POS system. Hell they aren't even ready to verify income of individuals applying. The system is so ripe for fraud that its a joke.
The demands are fine outside of the debt ceiling issue, which is about paying bills that are due on spending already approved by Congress. There should be no negotiating over paying those debts, and there never has been until the Rs decided to block Obama on everything. It's pathetic and irresponsible.
New spending? Fine, go for it, make your demands. This is paying for spending Congress already approved and payment is due.
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Old 09-30-2013, 11:37 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
The demands are fine outside of the debt ceiling issue, which is about paying bills that are due on spending already approved by Congress. There should be no negotiating over paying those debts, and there never has been until the Rs decided to block Obama on everything. It's pathetic and irresponsible.
New spending? Fine, go for it, make your demands. This is paying for spending Congress already approved and payment is due.
Maybe if they quit spending money they don't have this wouldn't be an issue? Oh wait, that's only something us Serfs are supposed to do.
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Old 09-30-2013, 11:40 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
Maybe if they quit spending money they don't have this wouldn't be an issue? Oh wait, that's only something us Serfs are supposed to do.
You're talking about generating new bills. That's a seperate issue from paying bills that are already due.
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Old 09-30-2013, 11:45 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
You're talking about generating new bills. That's a seperate issue from paying bills that are already due.
You can't possibly think people here are so ****ing stupid as to buy this load of crap? Oh wait... are YOU this ****ing stupid that you actually think this is even close to the reality of our current system?
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Old 09-30-2013, 11:49 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
The demands are fine outside of the debt ceiling issue, which is about paying bills that are due on spending already approved by Congress. There should be no negotiating over paying those debts, and there never has been until the Rs decided to block Obama on everything. It's pathetic and irresponsible.
New spending? Fine, go for it, make your demands. This is paying for spending Congress already approved and payment is due.
I think you are wrong about the this never happening. I will dig around when I get more time. But my mother was a federal employee and I remember her concerned about this more than once or twice. I think she may have even missed some time. This would have been in the Carter/ Regan times.
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Old 09-30-2013, 11:53 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
You're talking about generating new bills. That's a seperate issue from paying bills that are already due.
Yeah, we hear this every time except every time we increase the debt ceiling they spend even more and we ride the merry-go-round over and over again.


I personally don't give a **** what it's about. We will survive a government shutdown just like we always have and maybe pissy-pants Reid will be taken down a peg or two while we're at it.
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Old 09-30-2013, 12:01 PM   #165
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Found this while searching Kind of interesting:

1900s: A delicate balance.

The Anti-Deficiency Act seems clear. But as usual, Congress sent mixed messages. Lawmakers routinely failed to pass most of each year's dozen or so appropriations bills on time. Sometimes agencies went a full year without a budget. Usually lawmakers would smooth that over with a short-term money approval, called a "continuing resolution" in Washington-speak.

Sometimes Congress couldn't even agree on those: Stopgap resolutions got tangled up for days or a couple of weeks in political fights over matters such as abortion, foreign aid or congressional pay raises. Sort of like the current fight over health care.

But government agencies didn't shut down and Cabinet secretaries weren't led away in handcuffs.

Agency chiefs might delay workers' pay and put items such as travel and new contracts on hold. But they assumed Congress didn't want them to turn off the lights and go home. Eventually lawmakers would cough up a spending bill to retroactively paper over the funding gap.

---

1980: An inconvenient truth.

This look-the-other-way system worked for decades. Until the Carter administration.

A stickler for the rules, Carter asked his attorney general to look into the Anti-Deficiency Act. In April 1980, Attorney General Benjamin Civiletti issued a startling opinion. "The legal authority for continued operations either exists or it does not," he wrote.

When it does not, government must send employees home. They can't work for free or with the expectation that they will be paid someday.

What's more, Civiletti declared, any agency chief who broke that law would be prosecuted.

Five days later, funding for the Federal Trade Commission expired amid a congressional disagreement over limiting the agency's powers. The FTC halted operations, canceled court dates and meetings, and sent 1,600 workers packing, apparently the first agency ever closed by a budget dispute.

Embarrassed lawmakers made a quick fix. The FTC reopened the next day. The estimated cost of the brouhaha: $700,000.

Carter, a Democratic president forever stymied by his own party in Congress, ordered the whole government to be ready to shut down when the budget year ended on Oct. 1, 1980, in case lawmakers missed their deadline for appropriations bills.

A report by what's now the Government Accountability Office captured federal officials' dismay: "That the federal government would shut its doors was, they said, incomprehensible, inconceivable, unthinkable."

It almost happened. Funding for many agencies did expire, but just for a few hours, and nobody was sent home.

Near the end of his term, Civiletti further clarified the law's meaning. In a government-wide shutdown, the military, air traffic control, prisons and other work that protects human safety or property would continue. So would things such as Social Security benefits, which Congress has financed indefinitely.

---

1981-1990: Playing chicken.

With the threat of shutdown as a weapon, budget fights would never be the same, and a big one was brewing.

Republican Ronald Reagan moved into the White House in January 1981 with a promise to cut taxes and shrink government, setting up a showdown with Democrats who ran the House.

High noon came early on Monday, Nov. 23, 1981.

The government had technically been without money all weekend, but Congress approved emergency spending to keep it running. That morning, Reagan wielded his first veto. He was making a stand against "budget-busting policies," the president declared, sending confused federal workers streaming out of offices in Washington and across the nation.

It was the first government shutdown. But it lasted only hours. By that afternoon, Congress approved a three-week spending extension more to Reagan's liking. Workers returned Tuesday morning. The estimated cost: more than $80 million.

The pattern was set. Over his two terms, Reagan and congressional Democrats would regularly argue to the brink of shutdown, and twice more they sent workers home for a half-day.

President George H.W. Bush used the tactic only once, during the budget wrangling that punctured his "no new taxes" pledge.

That partial shutdown over the 1990 Columbus Day weekend mostly served to miff tourists who found national park visitor centers locked and Smithsonian museums closed.

Shutdown threats were becoming ho-hum, just more Washington games. After all, what politician would relish a full body plunge into the "unthinkable"?

---

1995-96: The real thing.

Cue President Bill Clinton and Gingrich.

Two big men with big ideas and big-time egos, the Democratic president and the Republican House speaker charged into a cage match and ended up wrestling the U.S. government to the ground. Twice.

These two shutdowns, for six days and 21 days, were the longest ever. Until now they were assumed to have taught politicians the folly of ever again powering down the world's most powerful government. Maybe not.

Serious issues were at stake in 1995 - the future of Medicare, tax cuts, aid for the poor, the budget deficit. But they got lost in the absurdities:

-The shutdowns didn't save money; they cost millions.

-Despite all the buildup, most of government didn't close, because of complexities of the federal budget and exemptions for essential workers.

-Still, the first shutdown resulted in 800,000 workers eventually getting paid for staying home.

-Despite public disgust, Clinton and the Republicans failed to settle all their disputes and soon idled 280,000 employees for another three weeks, through Christmas and into the New Year.

-The effects rippled through the economy, harming federal contractors and businesses that serve visitors to national parks and industries that must work with federal inspectors.

-The tone of the whole exercise was set when a huffy Gingrich suggested he had steered the government to a standstill because Clinton relegated him to the back door of Air Force One on an overseas trip. The public tantrum delighted Democrats and cartoonists alike.

The president was judged to have "won" the tussle. Republicans took a drubbing in the polls and ended up accepting most of Clinton's conditions in a compromise that seemed more like crying uncle.

But faith in government may have been the biggest loser.

A footnote: On the January day that missing workers were scheduled to finally return to their posts, the Northeast was just starting to dig out from an extreme blizzard.

After weeks of insisting it was vital to get government back to work quickly, Clinton decided to keep Washington closed another four days.

---
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