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Old 10-15-2013, 02:08 PM  
AustinChief AustinChief is online now
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The (unintended) genious of the GOP debt ceiling "plan"

I highly doubt that the GOP planned any of this but I think the current situation has a good chance of working out heavily in their favor IF they accept some minor concessions from the Dems and move on.

Here is why...

If they had simply made this fight about spending and NOT tried to force the Dems to defund or delay Obamacare I honestly think the Dems would have put forth a delay themselves after finding out how far from finished the website truly was. As it stands the GOP's stance has made it impossible for the Dems to enact a delay without giving the GOP a massive "win."

I have stated all along that an Obamacare delay would backfire against the GOP by 1)pushing this massively unpopular issue back past the next election and 2)giving the Dems time to "fix" the system enough to make it more palatable.

The debt ceiling issue and govt shutdown will be long forgotten from the ephemeral public consciousness by the time the next election hits. What little memory remains will be of how the current govt doesn't work and we need to "throw the bums out." That kind of attitude hurts the Dems FAR worse than it does the GOP.

Barring more GOP screwups I honestly think we'll see a 50/50 or 51/49 split after 2014. (Of course 50/50 doesn't help the GOP much)
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:14 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Cleudus View Post
I find laughable that you believe that this is all just interest payments on our treasury bills.
I like to laugh at facts too!

A default IS when we don't pay interest or maturity on T bills. You can think it is something else but that doesn't change what the term means in this context.
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:16 PM   #17
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Isn't it horrible that $500 billion (or whatever it is now) is considered a small figure. Half a billion dollars just pissed away. Every year.
I'm sure reaching the ceiling will help with the interest rate. Our credit was dinged the last time the Rs screwed around like this. I wonder much that cost in extra interest.
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:17 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Isn't it horrible that $500 billion (or whatever it is now) is considered a small figure. Half a billion dollars just pissed away. Every year.
It gets worse when you look at how Bush and Obama added to it. This is a two party disaster, to be sure.
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:21 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Cleudus View Post
You lack complete common sense. Democrats will not respond under any circumstance when the threat is give us what we want or we destroy the economy. They aren't going to back down on this stance. I will concede they will throw a dog a bone and give up insignificant concessions (example: getting rid of medical device tax, or creating income verification for ACA) because the House Republican party has painted themselves into a corner.

Now the republicans can't back don't because they will look weak. Anyone with half a brain knew how this would play out. Anyone with common sense could see this would just create gridlock. The democrats are not going to give in on principle to the major concessions the house gop are demanding. Now the obvious is happening, we are at the brink of default.

I find laughable that you believe that this is all just interest payments on our treasury bills. It shows you have no clue how far this goes.

Austin! You got me! You almost had me fooled. What is this, some sort of Huffington Post comment bot. You playing around with machine learning or something? I was fooled for a minute, but the talking points are too disjointed as though they're just copy and pasted without any real connecting logic between the sentences.

A nice touch responding to it!

A very nice script. Kudos!
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:25 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
I'm sure reaching the ceiling will help with the interest rate. Our credit was dinged the last time the Rs screwed around like this. I wonder much that cost in extra interest.
I wonder...

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Old 10-15-2013, 04:26 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
It gets worse when you look at how Bush and Obama added to it. This is a two party disaster, to be sure.
Exactly! Particularly because the R's own spending binge and foreign adventures is what kicked them out of power resulting in a man such as Obama getting elected and more Ds in Congress--just because they were the opposite party.
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:29 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
The interest debt is represented on the far left of the red bar. The Green bar represents revenues taken in each month. There is no worry about defaulting. It's just a scare tactic that the balanced media has perpetrated to present this debate in a very unbiased and balanced scare tactic way:
Wow your graph with no real news link, that looks like it was created by a republican government propaganda website is nice man. Here is a little something from the CBO, who I believe over any damn republican democrat political propaganda website. As it is independent.

"On September 25, 2013, the Treasury estimated that its ability to borrow under those extraordinary measures will be exhausted no later than October 17, leaving a cash balance of approximately $30 billion. CBO currently projects that the Treasury will exhaust all of the borrowing authority created by those measures, as well as its cash balance, between October 22 and the end of the month. (It is possible, however, that the date could fall outside of that range.) "


Cbo website. I can't post links or pictures.

So basically your full of shit. As these tax revenues to cover all our spending that your chart likes to show, is manufactured. Show me the link and back it up with a non conservative website please.
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:34 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleudus View Post
Wow your graph with no real news link, that looks like it was created by a republican government propaganda website is nice man. Here is a little something from the CBO, who I believe over any damn republican democrat political propaganda website. As it is independent.

"On September 25, 2013, the Treasury estimated that its ability to borrow under those extraordinary measures will be exhausted no later than October 17, leaving a cash balance of approximately $30 billion. CBO currently projects that the Treasury will exhaust all of the borrowing authority created by those measures, as well as its cash balance, between October 22 and the end of the month. (It is possible, however, that the date could fall outside of that range.) "


Cbo website. I can't post links.

So basically your full of shit. As these tax revenues to cover all our spending that your chart likes to show, is manufactured. Show me the link and back it up with a non conservative website please.
Sorry about this TJ, looks like it is back to the drawing board. This bot is obviously not ready for prime time. Machine learning has a long way to go before it can reach a level where it can emulate an actual thinking human.

Oh well.
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:36 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
I'm sure reaching the ceiling will help with the interest rate. Our credit was dinged the last time the Rs screwed around like this. I wonder much that cost in extra interest.
Hmm maybe you meant 5 year bonds...



(we can do this all day..)
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:38 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Sorry about this TJ, looks like it is back to the drawing board. This bot is obviously not ready for prime time. Machine learning has a long way to go before it can reach a level where it can emulate an actual thinking human.

Oh well.
I'm a bot, you are the one cheering up the repulbicans like they are a football team. The CBO projects and all you have to answer with is I'm a bot. Yeah that's what I am. Keep reading your republican propaganda, and posting links to them like they are facts.
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:45 PM   #26
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
I wonder...

The interest rate on bonds compared to 1980 isn't the issue. What was the effect of the credit downgrade and what was the resulting increase in interest expense?
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:48 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
I like to laugh at facts too!

A default IS when we don't pay interest or maturity on T bills. You can think it is something else but that doesn't change what the term means in this context.
Oh so when I charge 10 dollars on my Visa, and decide not to pay it, I'm only defaulting on the interest accrued. I get it so the other 10 dollars I also owe goes to the magic fairy and everyone forgets about it. Cool!!!
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:49 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
The interest rate on bonds compared to 1980 isn't the issue. What was the effect of the credit downgrade and what was the resulting increase in interest expense?
Did you not SEE that MASSIVE jump in rates after the downgrade!!!! It's right there on all the charts!

Oh wait... it isn't.

But I'm sure it's just like Obamacare... without Obamacare health insurance rates we be going up EVEN more than they are... without the downgrade the interest rates would have DROPPED.. not sure how NEGATIVE interest rates would work but I'm sure you can tell us!

It must be wonderful to have rampant unfounded speculation without actual facts as your basis for argument.
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:55 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Cleudus View Post
Oh so when I charge 10 dollars on my Visa, and decide not to pay it, I'm only defaulting on the interest accrued. I get it so the other 10 dollars I also owe goes to the magic fairy and everyone forgets about it. Cool!!!
Dude you have already proven to us that you don't have a clue what a DEFAULT means. No need to drive the point home.

Protip: The US has more than enough revenue to make all OBLIGATED PAYMENTS. A better analogy is that you have a monthly budget that spends $5000 on credit card interest/minimums, mortgage, car payment, cable, utilities, paintball and charity. But unfortunately you only make $4000 per month so some of that goes on your credit card. So you've hit your max on your credit card and now you can either not pay the interest there (A DEFAULT) or MAYBE you can not give to charity and skip the paintball.
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Old 10-15-2013, 05:00 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Dude you have already proven to us that you don't have a clue what a DEFAULT means. No need to drive the point home.

Protip: The US has more than enough revenue to make all OBLIGATED PAYMENTS. A better analogy is that you have a monthly budget that spends $5000 on credit card interest/minimums, mortgage, car payment, cable, utilities, paintball and charity. But unfortunately you only make $4000 per month so some of that goes on your credit card. So you've hit your max on your credit card and now you can either not pay the interest there (A DEFAULT) or MAYBE you can not give to charity and skip the paintball.
de·fault
noun
noun: default; plural noun: defaults
diˈfôlt,ˈdēfôlt/

1.
failure to fulfill an obligation, esp. to repay a loan or appear in a court of law.
"it will have to restructure its debts to avoid default"
synonyms: nonpayment, failure to pay, bad debt...


Yeah bro, its all about the interest payment.

Protip: The deficit is created from Expenses - Revenue. The deficit was positive, meaning the US doesn't have "more than enough revenure to make all OBLIGATED PAYMENTS." Meaning they have to borrow, in other words raise the debt ceiling.

How brainwashed are you son?
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