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Old 10-25-2013, 09:30 AM  
Canofbier Canofbier is offline
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Royals have 5 Gold Glove Finalists

They are:

Salvador Perez
Lorenzo Cain
Alcides Escobar
Alex Gordon
Eric Hosmer

Which of them do you think has a shot to win?

Gordon's a lock at this point, if you ask me. Perez feels like a pretty sure bet as well, since I can't think of who else would be more deserving in the AL. Cain missed a big chunk of the year, and I don't think Escobar has been consistent enough to be #1. I'm honestly not sure about Hosmer.
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Old 10-25-2013, 10:18 AM   #16
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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Hosmer should not sniff a GG. He was -9.4 in runs saved. Gordon was barely above average at 1.6. Escobar and Perez were two of the top five defenders in the AL. If they don't get it they shouldn't have the awards.
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Old 10-25-2013, 10:24 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
Hosmer should not sniff a GG. He was -9.4 in runs saved. Gordon was barely above average at 1.6. Escobar and Perez were two of the top five defenders in the AL. If they don't get it they shouldn't have the awards.
Stop meddling in our important business. We already won the World Series this year. Now go back to your "World Series" thread.
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Old 10-25-2013, 10:29 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
Hosmer should not sniff a GG. He was -9.4 in runs saved. Gordon was barely above average at 1.6. Escobar and Perez were two of the top five defenders in the AL. If they don't get it they shouldn't have the awards.
Link? I see 3 at baseball-reference and fangraphs.
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Old 10-25-2013, 10:31 AM   #19
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
Link? I see 3 at baseball-reference and fangraphs.
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.asp...rs=0&sort=19,d
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Old 10-25-2013, 10:33 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
Hosmer should not sniff a GG. He was -9.4 in runs saved. Gordon was barely above average at 1.6. Escobar and Perez were two of the top five defenders in the AL. If they don't get it they shouldn't have the awards.
So actually being in the world series isn't enough.
having your own stinkbird thread isn't enough.
having your own world series stinkbird thread isn't enough.

You just have to come around and shit in our threads?
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Old 10-25-2013, 10:35 AM   #21
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr. Laz View Post
So actually being in the world series isn't enough.
having your own stinkbird thread isn't enough.
having your own world series stinkbird thread isn't enough.

You just have to come around and shit in our threads?
**** off, you butthurt bitch. I wasn't shitting on anything, just adding perspective to who among your finalists were the most likely to win and why.
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Old 10-25-2013, 10:40 AM   #22
mr. tegu mr. tegu is offline
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
That is different than the simple DRS which has Hosmer at 3. How exactly it is different I don't know, though it seems to include some more advanced adjustments.

But on that stat, Davis is -13.5 and Loney is -5 so to point to that stat as something clearly against Hosmer compared to his competition doesn't really hold up. It seems to me across the board they are all pretty equal.
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Old 10-25-2013, 10:53 AM   #23
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Perez is a no doubt, absolute lock.


I'm not sure on any of the others. Cain is probably the best CF but Trout's there so they may stick with just one CF. He's also hurt a lot which may impact it.
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Old 10-25-2013, 10:55 AM   #24
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
That is different than the simple DRS which has Hosmer at 3. How exactly it is different I don't know, though it seems to include some more advanced adjustments.

But on that stat, Davis is -13.5 and Loney is -5 so to point to that stat as something clearly against Hosmer compared to his competition doesn't really hold up. It seems to me across the board they are all pretty equal.
Fangraphs augments. They account for arm strength, double plays turned, range runs, and error runs with positional adjustments.

The guy who should actually win, IMO, is Trumbo. Davis qualifies as an atrocious defender, but that's never stopped GG in the past.

Here's their explanation:

This is where the upgrade was needed the most. Prior to this rollout, we listed “Fld” as our primary defensive rating on both the dashboard and the fielding section, which solely rated players relative to average at their specific positions, but that treats all positions as if they are equal in value, which is clearly not true. Pretty much every shortstop is a better defender than every first baseman, even the ones with negative ratings at SS compared to the guys with positive ratings at 1B. But, with the Fld metric, this wasn’t always obvious, and it led to people using a metric that rates players at their position as if that was their standing in the league overall.

By adding the positional adjustment into the fielding rating to create Defense, we’re now presenting a much better view of who the best defenders actually are. Catchers get a big boost here as well, as they have the largest positional adjustment of any spot on the field, and this better recognizes their contributions, even if they aren’t necessarily rated dramatically higher than other catchers. Just being a catcher has a lot of value, and this helps display that value more correctly.

There are some other ancillary benefits to displaying things in this matter as well. Since these are counting stats, playing time is explicitly included, so a player who has posted a .400 wOBA over 150 games will grade out better than a player who had the same .400 wOBA in only 100 games. Rate stats can be very useful, but when counting total value, you also want to give players credit for staying in the line-up every day. Now, instead of having to just cite wOBA or wRC+ and then adjust for both playing time and baserunning value, those are already baked into the Offense column.

This also helps level the playing field for guys who shift between positions. Utility players who spend parts of their season at multiple positions, or even regulars who bounce around between spots like Ben Zobrist, do not have their defensive performance easily described by a single UZR rating. If a guy plays five positions and has a +5 UZR, you don’t really know what that +5 is relative to. Now, with the fielding component added in, you know that the baseline is an average defender across all positions.


And, finally, if you don’t want to try to spend time talking about what a replacement level player is, this gives you an easy way to simply compare players relative to league average, a baseline that is easily understood without any explanation. Replacement level is an important concept, but there are times it is not necessary to add in those extra runs, and a comparison to average will do just fine. For those times, these metrics now make those citations easier.

You will find Off and Def — the shorthand labels for these numbers — in the Dashboard and Value sections of the player pages and the leaderboards, starting immediately. These will be added to the custom dashboard options in the near future. As always, a big thanks to site founder/owner/overlord David Appelman for his hard work, and we hope you find these two new numbers as useful as we do.
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Old 10-25-2013, 10:56 AM   #25
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Sally ain't a-gonna win a GG this year. Remember? Everyone in the universe done seen him let the ball get by him and then disappear in that gosh-durn sign contraption behind home plate at the K...not just once, but the next night as well!
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Old 10-25-2013, 12:55 PM   #26
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It is weird how Billy cost us 16.1 runs on defense this year. Those formulas need some tweaking.

Hos's numbers there don't pass the eye test.
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:17 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
Hosmer should not sniff a GG. He was -9.4 in runs saved. Gordon was barely above average at 1.6. Escobar and Perez were two of the top five defenders in the AL. If they don't get it they shouldn't have the awards.
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:04 AM   #28
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:10 AM   #29
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at all of you Hosmer haters.
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Old 10-30-2013, 11:20 AM   #30
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at all of you Hosmer haters.
All?

I only see one.
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