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Old 10-25-2013, 01:00 PM  
Msmith Msmith is offline
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Ehealth.com provides a window to see how much the health policy really costs

I am not here to suggest ehealth.com is a way to go. But it does gives some cost/benefit comparison at different pricing and levels of the coverage.

Here is the link:https://www.ehealthinsurance.com/fam...allid=eHe29411

I used a family of three, (both parents in 40's, son in early teens) with an family income around $45,000. Then you input the estimation of the subsidy if you qualify.

The cheapest Bronze is $174/mo. The deductible is $5000/$10000 for individual/family. After the deductible is filled then it is 60/40 coinsurance. The highest Bronze is $292/mo. The deductible is $5750/$11500 with 20% coinsurance after deductible.

The cheapest Silver is $331/mo. The deductible is $6000 for family with 10% coinsurance after deductible.

The highest Silver is $400/mo. The deductible is $3500/$7000.

The Gold is $610/mo. The deductible is $750/$1500.

The cost is calculated with the subsidy deduction. In other word, you just pay the listed premium and ehealth will bill the government for the subsidy.

Again, there are other insurance companies that could post similar plans.
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Old 10-25-2013, 10:10 PM   #2
suzzer99 suzzer99 is offline
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Affordable Care Act update. My group premiums for my family through Humana are $2100 per month. Due to the ACA's community rating rules I'm in line for a decrease to $1365 per month. I got onto healthcare.gov today (finally) and I can get coverage with a higher individual deductible but lower family deductible (but also with 20% coinsurance I don't have now) for $1050 per month on the exchange. I have not found one small business owner yet that is not saving money due to community rating rules and the exchange option is competitive. If like to hear from any small business owners that have been adversely effected but I haven't found anyone yet. All of the reports I'm getting are similar to my story.
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Old 10-25-2013, 10:13 PM   #3
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Old 10-27-2013, 09:02 AM   #4
KILLER_CLOWN KILLER_CLOWN is offline
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Ya it isn't cheap at all, as a matter of fact it's better to not have insurance than that crap.
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Old 10-27-2013, 09:15 AM   #5
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Everyone talks about what an egregious loss of freedom it is for the government to declare that it has the ability to say "You are required to buy this product just by virtue of being alive."

But it's also a pretty sad loss of freedom for them not to give you a choice as to the particulars of what you're buying. I can't meet the requirement unless I buy a policy that covers A, B, and C, because the government says I need that. Labor and Delivery, for instance.

I no longer have the ability to buy things that fit my own needs, instead I am required to buy something that government says fits everyone's needs.
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Old 10-27-2013, 10:48 AM   #6
suzzer99 suzzer99 is offline
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The problem is if you buy crappy health insurance with a low lifetime cap - you're still going to be a burden on the system when your cap runs out and you can't pay.
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Old 10-27-2013, 12:04 PM   #7
Msmith Msmith is offline
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
The problem is if you buy crappy health insurance with a low lifetime cap - you're still going to be a burden on the system when your cap runs out and you can't pay.
In that case, no one should buy the Bronze plan with 60/40 coverage. How will you pay for the $20000 surgery in which you need to fork up $8000 as coinsurance. This will be burden for the society to bear.
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Old 10-27-2013, 12:30 PM   #8
blake5676 blake5676 is offline
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
The problem is if you buy crappy health insurance with a low lifetime cap - you're still going to be a burden on the system when your cap runs out and you can't pay.
This is one of the arguments that I can't stand. You can't just make a blanket statement like that and assume it is an actual problem. Very few peoples plans have annual OR lifetime limits. And if they do, they're usually in the millions. Do you know how often that actually comes into play? Almost never. MOST people don't get terminal illnesses. And of those people who do, the vast majority of them don't all have "shitty" insurance.

The biggest problem overall with the ACA is the dictation of what they've determined to be essential health benefits. Not everyone needs the same coverage, plain and simple. And as a result of them determining a minimum what every insurance plan has to cover, they've essentially completely changed the way the entire system works.

I'll use myself as an example. 31yo male. Self employed and pay for my own insurance on the individual market. I have a BCBS plan, with a $2500 deductible, 80/20 coninsurance, $7500 max OOP, no maternity and generic prescription. Also, it has NO lifetime limits. I pay $94/month. And in all honesty, this plan is way more than I actually need. I should carry a much higher deductible, seeing as I'm generally healthy and usually go to the doctor approximately once a year if at all. I could get essentially the same plan with a 5-6k deductible for about $50/month. Not anymore though. Because of the ACA, my plan is now disappearing.

Even though I can't "shop" and compare plans right now bc of the embarrassing, non-functioning website, I can still see the available plans for my county a number of different ways. I have about 9 different BCBS plans and 4 Coventry (worst ins co in the world, btw) to pick from. A comparable plan to what I have now is going to cost me about $275. For something NO better than what I already had. I'm going to be paying $3300/year to go to the doctor once. But what if something catastrophic happens? Or you get really sick? Well, I have insurance. Just like I had before. Only I pay 3300 for that insurance now instead of 1125 like before. And I also get to pay $50 copays instead of the $30 I pay with my current plan.

This is the same scenario happening to MILLIONS of people now and in the next few months as these old policies expire. They aren't going to hit their goal of signing up 7 million new people. But they ARE going to force a much higher number of people off of their old plans they were perfectly happy with. It's a net negative...no two ways about it.
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Old 10-27-2013, 12:33 PM   #9
blake5676 blake5676 is offline
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Originally Posted by Msmith View Post
In that case, no one should buy the Bronze plan with 60/40 coverage. How will you pay for the $20000 surgery in which you need to fork up $8000 as coinsurance. This will be burden for the society to bear.
Exactly. These people who either can't afford health insurance, or choose not to carry it, are supposed to magically be expected to pay these high deductibles they're going to have to meet?? No. But hey, at least liberals can feel better about themselves because more people have "insurance".
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Old 10-28-2013, 08:56 AM   #10
Msmith Msmith is offline
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I put in a female of 64 years old with $18000/yr. The best Bronze plan is $6300 deductible but zero $ for her monthly premium, and zero $ coinsurance after the deductible.

The question is, how could she come up with $6300?
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Old 10-28-2013, 09:01 AM   #11
KILLER_CLOWN KILLER_CLOWN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msmith View Post
I put in a female of 64 years old with $18000/yr. The best Bronze plan is $6300 deductible but zero $ for her monthly premium, and zero $ coinsurance after the deductible.

The question is, how could she come up with $6300?
Answer: she can't.
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"If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." - Thomas Jefferson
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Old 10-28-2013, 09:22 AM   #12
suzzer99 suzzer99 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msmith View Post
In that case, no one should buy the Bronze plan with 60/40 coverage. How will you pay for the $20000 surgery in which you need to fork up $8000 as coinsurance. This will be burden for the society to bear.
$8000 is a lot less burden on society than a $million
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Old 10-28-2013, 09:28 AM   #13
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There is a remote chance the average person's medical cost would reach a million. But for many people, spending several thousands out of pocket is very common in the upcoming year. How are they going to pay for these so called affordable care?
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Old 10-28-2013, 09:29 AM   #14
KILLER_CLOWN KILLER_CLOWN is offline
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Quote:
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There is a remote chance the average person's medical cost would reach a million. But for many people, spending several thousands out of pocket is very common in the upcoming year. How are they going to pay for these so called affordable care?
Let them eat cake and die in the streets, it's the caring liberal way.
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Old 10-28-2013, 09:33 AM   #15
suzzer99 suzzer99 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blake5676 View Post
This is one of the arguments that I can't stand. You can't just make a blanket statement like that and assume it is an actual problem. Very few peoples plans have annual OR lifetime limits. And if they do, they're usually in the millions. Do you know how often that actually comes into play? Almost never. MOST people don't get terminal illnesses. And of those people who do, the vast majority of them don't all have "shitty" insurance.

The biggest problem overall with the ACA is the dictation of what they've determined to be essential health benefits. Not everyone needs the same coverage, plain and simple. And as a result of them determining a minimum what every insurance plan has to cover, they've essentially completely changed the way the entire system works.

I'll use myself as an example. 31yo male. Self employed and pay for my own insurance on the individual market. I have a BCBS plan, with a $2500 deductible, 80/20 coninsurance, $7500 max OOP, no maternity and generic prescription. Also, it has NO lifetime limits. I pay $94/month. And in all honesty, this plan is way more than I actually need. I should carry a much higher deductible, seeing as I'm generally healthy and usually go to the doctor approximately once a year if at all. I could get essentially the same plan with a 5-6k deductible for about $50/month. Not anymore though. Because of the ACA, my plan is now disappearing.

Even though I can't "shop" and compare plans right now bc of the embarrassing, non-functioning website, I can still see the available plans for my county a number of different ways. I have about 9 different BCBS plans and 4 Coventry (worst ins co in the world, btw) to pick from. A comparable plan to what I have now is going to cost me about $275. For something NO better than what I already had. I'm going to be paying $3300/year to go to the doctor once. But what if something catastrophic happens? Or you get really sick? Well, I have insurance. Just like I had before. Only I pay 3300 for that insurance now instead of 1125 like before. And I also get to pay $50 copays instead of the $30 I pay with my current plan.

This is the same scenario happening to MILLIONS of people now and in the next few months as these old policies expire. They aren't going to hit their goal of signing up 7 million new people. But they ARE going to force a much higher number of people off of their old plans they were perfectly happy with. It's a net negative...no two ways about it.
It's true that is a healthy young male, you were probably in the dream scenario with private insurance. Your insurance is probably going to go up because you're pooled with other people who weren't as lucky as you to be able to get insurance, or older. It's just like if you worked for a corporation, your insurance would be a lot higher than $94 a month, because you'd be pooled with everyone else. When you have pooling, the absolute perfect insure-ees aren't going to be as well-off as they were under non-pooling.

Things can change really fast though. My uncle was in the dream scenario with private insurance. Then he fell off a ladder and shattered both of his ankles and has some lingering issues have pins. Now as a general contractor he's uninsurable. The ACA is a godsend for him.

Also there's the hidden cost of rescission. By the industry's own estimates they rescind .5% of policies a year. However if you think about the percentage of people that get really sick, that number can be up to like 10 to 20% of them. Imagine being in the fight of your life with cancer and being told your insurance company is dropping your coverage for something relatively benign that you forgot to report on your application. That really happened people on a regular basis. Under the ACA it's a thing of the past.
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