Home Mail MemberMap Chat (0) Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Royal Lounge > D.C.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-29-2013, 07:38 PM  
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
Supporter
 
petegz28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Olathe, Ks
Casino cash: $12792
**The Obamacare Shitfest thread**

At the rate this thing is falling apart I figures it's time for a game-style thread for this abortion of a law.

This is what we get from lawmakers who don't even read the law...

1. Web site crashes...no one tested it
2. Insurance policies being canceled even after Obama stated multiple times you can keep your insurance if you like it
3. Valerie Jarrett says blame the insurance companies
4. Insurance companies say "we are just following the law"
5. HHS neutered the "Grandfather" clause with multiple regulations
6. Jay Carney tells us what the President "really meant" and that we were all just too stupid to "get it"
7. IRS knew as soon as 2010 that over 50% of individual insurance policy holders would lose coverage
8. Men are being forced to carry "maternity coverage"
9. Women who cannot get pregnant are being forced to carry "maternity coverage"
10. We keep getting told this is "affordable" yet deductible seem to be going up as well as premiums on balance
11. The Fed Gov won't tell us how many people have actually signed up
13. Obama knew nothing about any of it
Posts: 66,784
petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013, 12:45 PM   #91
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
Supporter
 
petegz28's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Olathe, Ks
Casino cash: $12792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Well the results I'm seeing now are marred with technical glitches and bureaucratic struggles.

All of which are common for large social policy rollouts, are they not?
Dude, you are talking to a 20 year IT veteran. Are you really wanting me to answer that question?
__________________
Posts: 66,784
petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013, 12:46 PM   #92
Fairplay Fairplay is offline
MVP
 
Fairplay's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: state of mind
Casino cash: $9724
The beauty of it all is Obamas name will forever associated with Obamacare, like the name fail and failure.
Posts: 18,168
Fairplay is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fairplay is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fairplay is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fairplay is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fairplay is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fairplay is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fairplay is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fairplay is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fairplay is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fairplay is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fairplay is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013, 12:50 PM   #93
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $13241
Quote:
Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
Dude, you are talking to a 20 year IT veteran. Are you really wanting me to answer that question?
The last major rollout of a huge social policy was Medicare Part D. It faced a lot of the same difficulties. I'm not concerned with the technological difficulties -- we both know they're going to be largely corrected in due time.

What I'm focusing on is the long game: does the ACA work? Well, its exchanges seem to, its assurances for women and those with pre-existing conditions will, and the Medicaid expansion already has for the working poor in most of the country, but needs to continue in another twenty something states.
__________________
Posts: 45,167
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013, 12:51 PM   #94
Fairplay Fairplay is offline
MVP
 
Fairplay's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: state of mind
Casino cash: $9724
Have you tried to sign up Direckshun or have you signed up yet?
Posts: 18,168
Fairplay is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fairplay is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fairplay is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fairplay is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fairplay is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fairplay is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fairplay is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fairplay is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fairplay is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fairplay is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fairplay is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013, 12:51 PM   #95
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
Supporter
 
petegz28's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Olathe, Ks
Casino cash: $12792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
The last major rollout of a huge social policy was Medicare Part D. It faced a lot of the same difficulties. I'm not concerned with the technological difficulties -- we both know they're going to be largely corrected in due time.

What I'm focusing on is the long game: does the ACA work? Well, its exchanges seem to, its assurances for women and those with pre-existing conditions will, and the Medicaid expansion already has for the working poor in most of the country, but needs to continue in another twenty something states.
In due time???

Just stop
__________________
Posts: 66,784
petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013, 12:53 PM   #96
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $13241
Quote:
Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
In due time???

Just stop
Are you under the belief that the website will be dysfunctional forever?

For another year?

For another six months?
__________________
Posts: 45,167
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013, 12:58 PM   #97
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is online now
Debunking your bullshit
 
cosmo20002's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: KC area
Casino cash: $14905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairplay View Post
Have you tried to sign up Direckshun or have you signed up yet?
I bet he got one of those exemptions Obama hands out to people he likes!
__________________
Posts: 19,329
cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013, 01:00 PM   #98
Fairplay Fairplay is offline
MVP
 
Fairplay's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: state of mind
Casino cash: $9724
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
I bet he got one of those exemptions Obama hands out to people he likes!


I want to be on that favored list, of course if this is such a great thing for the American people why would you want to be exempt from it.
Posts: 18,168
Fairplay is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fairplay is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fairplay is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fairplay is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fairplay is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fairplay is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fairplay is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fairplay is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fairplay is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fairplay is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fairplay is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013, 01:02 PM   #99
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
Supporter
 
petegz28's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Olathe, Ks
Casino cash: $12792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Are you under the belief that the website will be dysfunctional forever?

For another year?

For another six months?
They had 3.5 years to get this ready.....
__________________
Posts: 66,784
petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013, 01:02 PM   #100
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $13241
Quote:
Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
They had 3.5 years to get this ready.....
You totally dodged the question but....okay
__________________
Posts: 45,167
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013, 01:02 PM   #101
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is online now
Debunking your bullshit
 
cosmo20002's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: KC area
Casino cash: $14905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairplay View Post
I want to be on that favored list, of course if this is such a great thing for the American people why would you want to be exempt from it.
No one is exempt. But if you already have insurance there is no reason to "sign up" or go through the exchanges.
__________________
Posts: 19,329
cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013, 01:13 PM   #102
Mr. Plow Mr. Plow is offline
Bitterness
 
Mr. Plow's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mmmmmm....Forbidden Donut
Casino cash: $7409
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
No one is exempt. But if you already have insurance there is no reason to "sign up" or go through the exchanges.
Not 100% true for myself or for a lot of other people. I had an insurance plan through BC/BS of KS for the past 7 years. Got notification last month that my plan does not meet the new ACA guidelines & I would have to find a new plan.

This was not a low end catastrophic plan nor was it a high end plan. Just a normal, family plan.
Posts: 24,038
Mr. Plow is obviously part of the inner Circle.Mr. Plow is obviously part of the inner Circle.Mr. Plow is obviously part of the inner Circle.Mr. Plow is obviously part of the inner Circle.Mr. Plow is obviously part of the inner Circle.Mr. Plow is obviously part of the inner Circle.Mr. Plow is obviously part of the inner Circle.Mr. Plow is obviously part of the inner Circle.Mr. Plow is obviously part of the inner Circle.Mr. Plow is obviously part of the inner Circle.Mr. Plow is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013, 01:21 PM   #103
Mr. Plow Mr. Plow is offline
Bitterness
 
Mr. Plow's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mmmmmm....Forbidden Donut
Casino cash: $7409
Actually, cosmo & Direckshun......while I don't agree with a lot of your views, I'd like to get your opinions on my situation if you don't mind. I posted it a couple weeks ago & never really got much response as to why.

Here is my original post #1:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Plow View Post
I've got a question I would like someone to explain to me. Preferably without all of the whole "OMG, Obamacare suckz bawlz" or "OMG, Obamacare is going to save us" BS.

I don't care which side of the aisle you are on, I really am just looking for a legitimate answer.

I get notice that my insurance plan is essentially not good enough and is going to be discontinued Dec. 31st with this message:

Quote:
Your current healthcare plan does not meet the benefit standards specified in the new health care reform law and will be discontinued after December 31
No indication what portion doesn't meet the new standards, but whatever. So, I go to the link the paper gives me for BCBS of KS so that I can view all these other plans. Probably 13-15 plans listed ranging from $650 - $1200 (these are family plans FYI).

So, I immediately skip over the Bronze plans because the Family deductibles on them are anywhere from $12,000 - $15,000/year. As I'm going through the next level of plans (silver I think) and comparing them, I come across the exact plan I'm currently on....for the exact same price that I'm paying now.

I'm sure there some minor difference, but seriously. Deductibles are the same, copays are the same, prescriptions are the same, hell even the price is the same. So why the **** do I need to get off of the plan I'm on to get onto the plan I'm on?

And post #2 with plan details:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Plow View Post
Here are the two plans I am looking at. The one on the left is my current plan, the one on the right ($40 more per month) is the comparison I was looking at.



PreventiveIn Network$0. Preventive is without cost share.$0. Preventive is without cost share.
Out of NetworkDeductible then 50% coinsuranceDeductible then 50% coinsurance
DeductibleIn Network$2,500 person/$5,000 family$3,000 person / $6,000 family
Out of Network$5,000 person/$10,000 family$6,000 person/$12,000 family
CoinsuranceIn Network20%20%
Out of Network50%50%
Coinsurance maximumIn NetworkN/AN/A
Out of Network$7,000 person/$14,000 family$12,000 person/$24,000 family
Annual out-of-pocket maximumIn Network$5,200 person/$10,400 family$6,000 person/$12,000 family
Out of NetworkN/AN/A
Doctor's Office Visit
Office visit - primaryIn Network$35 copay/visit, 5 visits per person at copay then subject to deductible and 20% coinsurance$35 copay/visit
Out of NetworkDeductible then 50% coinsuranceDeductible then 50% coinsurance
Office visit - specialistIn Network$70 copay/visit$70 copay/visit
Out of NetworkDeductible then 50% coinsuranceDeductible then 50% coinsurance
Prescription Drug Coverage
GenericIn Network$100 person/$200 family deductible then subject 50% coinsurance$15 copay
Out of Network
BrandIn Network$100 person/$200 family deductible then subject to 50% coinsurance$50 copay
Out of Network
Non-formularyIn Network$100 person/$200 family deductible then subject to 50% coinsurance$75 copay
Out of Network
SpecialtyIn Network$100 person/$200 family deductible then subject to 50% coinsurance$150 copay
Out of Network
Mail orderIn Network$100 person/$200 family deductible then subject to 50% coinsurance$37.50 generic/$125.00 preferred/$187.50 non-preferred/$375.00 specialty 3 month supply
Out of Network$15 generic/$50 preferred/$75 non-preferred/$150 specialty 30 day supply
Medical Services
Emergency room servicesIn Network$300 copay then subject to deductible and 20% coinsuranceDeductible then 20% coinsurance
Out of Network
Emergency medical transportationIn NetworkDeductible then 20% coinsuranceDeductible then 20% coinsurance
Out of NetworkDeductible then 50% coinsuranceDeductible then 50% coinsurance
Inpatient surgery physician/surgical servicesIn NetworkDeductible then 20% coinsuranceDeductible then 20% coinsurance
Out of NetworkDeductible then 50% coinsuranceDeductible then 50% coinsurance
Inpatient facility feeIn NetworkDeductible then 20% coinsuranceDeductible then 20% coinsurance
Out of NetworkDeductible then 50% coinsuranceDeductible then 50% coinsurance
Outpatient facility fee/ASCIn NetworkDeductible then 20% coinsuranceDeductible then 20% coinsurance
Out of NetworkDeductible then 50% coinsuranceDeductible then 50% coinsurance
Outpatient surgery physician/surgical servicesIn NetworkDeductible then 20% coinsuranceDeductible then 20% coinsurance
Out of NetworkDeductible then 50% coinsuranceDeductible then 50% coinsurance
Outpatient lab and radiologyIn NetworkDeductible then 20% coinsuranceDeductible then 20% coinsurance
Out of NetworkDeductible then 50% coinsuranceDeductible then 50% coinsurance
Advanced imagingIn Network$250 copay then 100%Deductible then 20% coinsurance
Out of NetworkDeductible then 50% coinsuranceDeductible then 50% coinsurance
InjectionsIn NetworkDeductible then 20% coinsuranceDeductible then 20% coinsurance
Out of NetworkDeductible then 50% coinsuranceDeductible then 50% coinsurance
Recovery & Special Needs
Outpatient rehabilitationIn Network$70 copay then 100%Deductible then 20% coinsurance
Out of NetworkDeductible then 50% coinsuranceDeductible then 50% coinsurance
Outpatient habilitationIn Network$70 copay then 100%Deductible then 20% coinsurance
Out of NetworkDeductible then 50% coinsuranceDeductible then 50% coinsurance
HospiceIn NetworkDeductible then 20% coinsuranceDeductible then 20% coinsurance
Out of NetworkDeductible then 50% coinsuranceDeductible then 50% coinsurance
Home health careIn NetworkDeductible then 20% coinsuranceDeductible then 20% coinsurance
Out of NetworkDeductible then 50% coinsuranceDeductible then 50% coinsurance
Mental Illness and Substance Use Disorders
Mental illness/substance use disorders inpatient servicesIn NetworkDeductible then 20% coinsuranceDeductible then 20% coinsurance
Out of NetworkDeductible then 50% coinsuranceDeductible then 50% coinsurance
Mental illness/substance use disorders outpatient servicesIn Network$35 copay/visit$35 copay/visit
Out of NetworkDeductible then 50% coinsuranceDeductible then 50% coinsurance
Maternity Coverage
Pre and postnatal office visitIn NetworkDeductible then 20% coinsuranceDeductible then 20% coinsurance
Out of NetworkDeductible then 50% coinsuranceDeductible then 50% coinsurance
Labor and delivery hospital stayIn NetworkDeductible then 20% coinsuranceDeductible then 20% coinsurance
Out of NetworkDeductible then 50% coinsuranceDeductible then 50% coinsurance
Dental & Vision
Pediatric dental (age 0-19)In NetworkDeductible then 20% coinsuranceDeductible then 20% coinsurance
Out of NetworkDeductible then 50% coinsuranceDeductible then 50% coinsurance
Pediatric vision (age 0-19)In NetworkDeductible then 20% coinsuranceDeductible then 20% coinsurance
Out of NetworkDeductible then 50% coinsuranceDeductible then 50% coinsurance
Adult dental (age 20+)In NetworkNot CoveredNot Covered
Out of Network
Adult vision (age 20+)In NetworkNot CoveredNot Covered
Out of Network
Other
Lifetime maximumUnlimited for each covered personUnlimited for each covered person.
Eligible dependentsCovered to age 26Covered to age 26
Diabetic education$35 copay/visit$35 copay/visit then 100%
HSA compliantN/AN/A
Posts: 24,038
Mr. Plow is obviously part of the inner Circle.Mr. Plow is obviously part of the inner Circle.Mr. Plow is obviously part of the inner Circle.Mr. Plow is obviously part of the inner Circle.Mr. Plow is obviously part of the inner Circle.Mr. Plow is obviously part of the inner Circle.Mr. Plow is obviously part of the inner Circle.Mr. Plow is obviously part of the inner Circle.Mr. Plow is obviously part of the inner Circle.Mr. Plow is obviously part of the inner Circle.Mr. Plow is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013, 01:23 PM   #104
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
BucPatriot
 
BucEyedPea's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: None of your business
Casino cash: $13442
My experience with new software programs is that any glitch is not major just requiring a patch of some sort.
__________________
“The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the legislature.” ~ James Madison, Father of the Constitution
Posts: 58,273
BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013, 01:24 PM   #105
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
Supporter
 
petegz28's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Olathe, Ks
Casino cash: $12792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
You totally dodged the question but....okay
You friggin' hack. They had 3.5 years to get this ready and never tested it for shit. You think suddenly everything is going to be working in a matter of a few weeks? This entire ordeal has been nothing short of an exercise of incompetence of epic proportion. Sebelius was even asked today if there metrics to track whether the Nov. 30th deadline would be made and she said "As I understand it...yes". That is an unacceptable answer especially after the cluster **** that has happened so far.
__________________
Posts: 66,784
petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.petegz28 is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:29 PM.


This is a test for a client's site.
A new website that shows member-created construction site listings that need fill or have excess fill. Dirt Monkey @ https://DirtMonkey.net
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.