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Old 11-01-2013, 02:57 PM  
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Another Obamacare horror story debunked

The vast majority of Horror Stories are being Dubunked.

This is just one example.

Quote:
Deborah Cavallaro is a hard-working real estate agent in the Westchester suburb of Los Angeles who has been featured prominently on a round of news shows lately, talking about how badly Obamacare is going to cost her when her existing plan gets canceled and she has to find a replacement.

She says she's angry at President Obama for having promised that people who like their health plans could keep them, when hers is getting canceled for not meeting Obamacare's standards.

"Please explain to me," she told Maria Bartiromo on CNBC Wednesday, "how my plan is a 'substandard' plan when ... I'd be paying more for the exchange plans than I am currently paying by a wide margin."

Bartiromo didn't take her up on her request. So I will.

The bottom line is that Cavallaro's assertion that "there's nothing affordable about the Affordable Care Act," as she put it Tuesday on NBC Channel 4, is the product of her own misunderstandings, abetted by a passel of uninformed and incurious news reporters.

I talked with Cavallaro, 60, after her CNBC appearance. Let's walk through what she told me.

Her current plan, from Anthem Blue Cross, is a catastrophic coverage plan for which she pays $293 a month as an individual policyholder. It requires her to pay a deductible of $5,000 a year and limits her out-of-pocket costs to $8,500 a year. Her plan also limits her to two doctor visits a year, for which she shoulders a copay of $40 each. After that, she pays the whole cost of subsequent visits.

This fits the very definition of a nonconforming plan under Obamacare. The deductible and out-of-pocket maximums are too high, the provisions for doctor visits too skimpy.

As for a replacement plan, she says she was quoted $478 a month by her insurance broker, but that's a lot more than she'll really be paying. Cavallaro told me she hasn't checked the website of Covered California, the state's health plan exchange, herself. I did so while we talked.

Here's what I found. I won't divulge her current income, which is personal, but this year it qualifies her for a hefty federal premium subsidy.

At her age, she's eligible for a good "silver" plan for $333 a month after the subsidy -- $40 a month more than she's paying now. But the plan is much better than her current plan -- the deductible is $2,000, not $5,000. The maximum out-of-pocket expense is $6,350, not $8,500. Her co-pays would be $45 for a primary care visit and $65 for a specialty visit -- but all visits would be covered, not just two.

Is that better than her current plan? Yes, by a mile.

If she wanted to pay less, Cavallaro could opt for lesser coverage in a "bronze" plan. She could buy one from the California exchange for as little as $194 a month. From Anthem, it's $256, or $444 a year less than she's paying now. That buys her a $5,000 deductible (the same as she's paying today) but the out-of-pocket limit is lower, $6,350. Office visits would be $60 for primary care and $70 for specialties, but again with no limit on the number of visits. Factor in the premium savings, and it's hard to deny that she's still ahead.

Cavallaro told me a couple of things that are worth considering. First, what she likes about her current plan is that she can go to any doctor of her choice and any hospital. That's not entirely true, because her current plan with Anthem does favor a network. Plainly, however, it's broad enough to serve her purposes. She's concerned that the new plans will offer smaller networks, which is probably true, though it's not necessarily true that the new networks will exclude her favorite doctors, hospitals or prescription formularies.

She also mentioned that her annual income fluctuates. It can be substantially lower, or substantially higher, than it is this year. What if next year she earns too much to qualify for the subsidy? Also a fair point -- at her current income, the subsidy is worth more than $200 a month to her. But that's not the same as saying that "there's nothing affordable about the Affordable Care Act," because at her current income, the act is vastly more affordable to her than what she's paying now.

When she told Channel 4 that "for the first time in my whole life, I will be without insurance," it's hard to understand what she was talking about. (Channel 4 didn't ask.) Better plans than she has now are available for her to purchase today, some of them for less money.

The sad truth is that Cavallaro has been very poorly served by the health insurance industry and the news media. It seems that Anthem didn't adequately explain her options for 2014 when it disclosed that her current plan is being canceled. If her insurance brokers told her what she says they did, they failed her. And the reporters who interviewed her without getting all the facts produced inexcusably shoddy work -- from Maria Bartiromo on down. They not only did her a disservice, but failed the rest of us too.

http://www.latimes.com/business/hilt...#axzz2jPcI0f8w
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Old 11-01-2013, 07:05 PM   #31
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From what I am hearing much of the failures of ObamaCare are the result of republicans efforts to undermine Obama and this beautiful law. Repub congressmen are not telling their people how to sign up.
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Old 11-01-2013, 08:12 PM   #32
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Have they debunked the one about people saving $2500 a year, on average?
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Old 11-01-2013, 08:12 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
I find it really interesting that all of the non-crazies on this board with reports of their 2014 insurance plans all report premiums that are lower, about the same, or perhaps a slight increase that is lower than the increases they are used to seeing.

The hard-core right-wingers all report a bazillion% increase and that someone came to their house to kick them in the balls on top of it.
Is it interesting because it doesn't fit YOUR narrative?? Or can you just not help trying to defend every single time someone criticizes the messiah? I would hope a couple people (especially with employer plans since that effect hasn't shown it's true impact yet) not seeing these drastic changes shouldn't be seen as a glaring success.

I've been reading the board for years, and most recently started lurking in DC despite all the warnings from the main board that it's a dumpster fire. I, for one, find it quite enjoyable to see all the bickering and differences of opinion. And I think just about everyone here understands politics better than the average, uneducated moron making up a good amount of our population. I made my first post roughly a week ago bc I just couldn't resist any longer and the ACA is something affecting me both personally and professionally. I also try to stay away from posting/engaging politics on facebook. Here in CP Land though, I figure I'm in the clear.

I'll admit that I probably lean more right than left, but I don't really associate myself with either party bc I think both options these days are way too extreme and neither are pragmatic when you look at how you should govern an entire nation.

Back to the original point....you can't call out things that don't fit your argument and say it's only crazy right wing idiots getting screwed over. Because it's just not true. Look, there's no disputing the fact TONS of people are losing insurance they like. If someone would've made that argument a month ago on this board, you'd have jumped all over them and said there's no way this is going to happen and say the claim is crazy. Now that the shutdown is over and people are looking beyond the website "glitches" and starting to see the real damage of the lies this law was sold on, the real story is starting to be seen. And the cancellations are coming by the bunches. And not surprisingly, the Dems stance has shifted to "of course you're losing your crappy plan" but it wasn't really insurance anyway. That's what your sidekick iguana buddy keeps saying, with no proof or basis of his claim.

So....of course there are going to be stories of some people's insurance not changing drastically, like Rain Man's. And I should FREAKING HOPE SO!! Thank god not everybody is getting the shaft. Or at least not yet. But I have no idea how you can insinuate that it's only a bunch of crazy RWNJ's magically getting screwed when all the evidence points to the contrary. Unless you can also acknowledge your insane and obsessive need to defend opposition to your hero until you're blue in the face. You're essentially a mirror to those you criticize.
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Old 11-01-2013, 08:20 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blake5676 View Post
Is it interesting because it doesn't fit YOUR narrative?? Or can you just not help trying to defend every single time someone criticizes the messiah? I would hope a couple people (especially with employer plans since that effect hasn't shown it's true impact yet) not seeing these drastic changes shouldn't be seen as a glaring success.

I've been reading the board for years, and most recently started lurking in DC despite all the warnings from the main board that it's a dumpster fire. I, for one, find it quite enjoyable to see all the bickering and differences of opinion. And I think just about everyone here understands politics better than the average, uneducated moron making up a good amount of our population. I made my first post roughly a week ago bc I just couldn't resist any longer and the ACA is something affecting me both personally and professionally. I also try to stay away from posting/engaging politics on facebook. Here in CP Land though, I figure I'm in the clear.

I'll admit that I probably lean more right than left, but I don't really associate myself with either party bc I think both options these days are way too extreme and neither are pragmatic when you look at how you should govern an entire nation.

Back to the original point....you can't call out things that don't fit your argument and say it's only crazy right wing idiots getting screwed over. Because it's just not true. Look, there's no disputing the fact TONS of people are losing insurance they like. If someone would've made that argument a month ago on this board, you'd have jumped all over them and said there's no way this is going to happen and say the claim is crazy. Now that the shutdown is over and people are looking beyond the website "glitches" and starting to see the real damage of the lies this law was sold on, the real story is starting to be seen. And the cancellations are coming by the bunches. And not surprisingly, the Dems stance has shifted to "of course you're losing your crappy plan" but it wasn't really insurance anyway. That's what your sidekick iguana buddy keeps saying, with no proof or basis of his claim.

So....of course there are going to be stories of some people's insurance not changing drastically, like Rain Man's. And I should FREAKING HOPE SO!! Thank god not everybody is getting the shaft. Or at least not yet. But I have no idea how you can insinuate that it's only a bunch of crazy RWNJ's magically getting screwed when all the evidence points to the contrary. Unless you can also acknowledge your insane and obsessive need to defend opposition to your hero until you're blue in the face. You're essentially a mirror to those you criticize.
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Old 11-01-2013, 08:32 PM   #35
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I would think it would be a lot easier to show everyone how much or how little they are going or not going to pay in health insurance if the website, y'know, worked.
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Old 11-01-2013, 08:32 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blake5676 View Post
Is it interesting because it doesn't fit YOUR narrative?? Or can you just not help trying to defend every single time someone criticizes the messiah? I would hope a couple people (especially with employer plans since that effect hasn't shown it's true impact yet) not seeing these drastic changes shouldn't be seen as a glaring success.
Your use of "messiah" convinces me that you look at these issues with an open mind. So many of the threads and claims on here at best leave out important details or are outright bullshit, but I guess that doesn't fit into your narrative.
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Old 11-01-2013, 08:33 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha_omega View Post
So, can she keep her current plan or not?
Loneiguana apparently doesn't know what the word "debunk" means.
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Old 11-01-2013, 08:34 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msmith View Post
Why?

From the article, "This fits the very definition of a nonconforming plan under Obamacare. The deductible and out-of-pocket maximums are too high, the provisions for doctor visits too skimpy."
If you like your plan, you can keep it. Period. Guaranteed.
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Old 11-01-2013, 08:36 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blake5676 View Post
Is it interesting because it doesn't fit YOUR narrative?? Or can you just not help trying to defend every single time someone criticizes the messiah? I would hope a couple people (especially with employer plans since that effect hasn't shown it's true impact yet) not seeing these drastic changes shouldn't be seen as a glaring success.

I've been reading the board for years, and most recently started lurking in DC despite all the warnings from the main board that it's a dumpster fire. I, for one, find it quite enjoyable to see all the bickering and differences of opinion. And I think just about everyone here understands politics better than the average, uneducated moron making up a good amount of our population. I made my first post roughly a week ago bc I just couldn't resist any longer and the ACA is something affecting me both personally and professionally. I also try to stay away from posting/engaging politics on facebook. Here in CP Land though, I figure I'm in the clear.

I'll admit that I probably lean more right than left, but I don't really associate myself with either party bc I think both options these days are way too extreme and neither are pragmatic when you look at how you should govern an entire nation.

Back to the original point....you can't call out things that don't fit your argument and say it's only crazy right wing idiots getting screwed over. Because it's just not true. Look, there's no disputing the fact TONS of people are losing insurance they like. If someone would've made that argument a month ago on this board, you'd have jumped all over them and said there's no way this is going to happen and say the claim is crazy. Now that the shutdown is over and people are looking beyond the website "glitches" and starting to see the real damage of the lies this law was sold on, the real story is starting to be seen. And the cancellations are coming by the bunches. And not surprisingly, the Dems stance has shifted to "of course you're losing your crappy plan" but it wasn't really insurance anyway. That's what your sidekick iguana buddy keeps saying, with no proof or basis of his claim.

So....of course there are going to be stories of some people's insurance not changing drastically, like Rain Man's. And I should FREAKING HOPE SO!! Thank god not everybody is getting the shaft. Or at least not yet. But I have no idea how you can insinuate that it's only a bunch of crazy RWNJ's magically getting screwed when all the evidence points to the contrary. Unless you can also acknowledge your insane and obsessive need to defend opposition to your hero until you're blue in the face. You're essentially a mirror to those you criticize.
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Old 11-01-2013, 08:38 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
No, but the real bad news is that she can get a better plan for less. Sucks for her.
It's deceptive to include the subsidy in the "cost" calculation like the author of this article does. You can bet that this product had plenty of purchasers who don't qualify for those subsidies who will also not be able to keep the "nonconforming" plan that they like. Indeed, this woman indicates that in some years, her income is significantly higher than it was this year.
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Old 11-01-2013, 08:43 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Your use of "messiah" convinces me that you look at these issues with an open mind. So many of the threads and claims on here at best leave out important details or are outright bullshit, but I guess that doesn't fit into your narrative.
I wouldn't have used that term if I'd have known it would lead you to ignore the rest of what I said. But I've yet to ever see you do anything other than defend the president. And yes, I understand that a lot of it is just to combat the insane Alex Jones type posts and put some reason into this board. Which is completely necessary because that stuff is both annoying and absolutely pointless. But the point still stands with actual factual posts/topics as well.
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Old 11-01-2013, 08:48 PM   #42
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Hurry up Cosmo & tell Blake 5676 how you dnt agree with all of Obama's policies.

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Old 11-01-2013, 08:50 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Msmith View Post
If she is making $45000, it is about $23/hr.
She's not making $45,000. He's speculating that she makes about half of that based on the fact that the author of the article says that she's eligible for substantial subsidies. Conveniently, the author declines to specify her income.
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Old 11-01-2013, 09:01 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
The vast majority of Horror Stories are being Dubunked.
If a "vast majority" of stories are being debunked, you might as well start with the horror stories on the HealthCare.gov facebook page.

Get started:


Janet King Beckett: Again, the Affordable Health Care Act is not for everyone. I found that out when I discovered the BRoNZE plan would cost us $6K each in my family. And that's the bottom of the barrel plan. Good luck y'all!!! We are all screwed because of this stupid government program. Another tax on the middle class!!

Susan Hille Swift: I NEED HELP!! I just hung up with yet another insurance rep. Our family of 4 has been self insured since we lost our coverage 2 years ago. We bought a bare bones plan as we're scraping by and that's all we can afford. It works for us. Now my family is getting hit with a 154% monthly increase! There's NO way we can afford this, but it gets worse! Under the new 'bare bones' plan that Obama is forcing on us, we'll pay $45 for every doctor visit which is always OUR cost alone and is never counted towards a deductible. Insurance does help us pay for other 'special' services' but we'll still pay 100% of those costs until we hit $2,000 PER PERSON! We’ll then pay 30% of all costs and insurance will pick up 70%. Since we’re healthy, we will never hit our deductibles and will never see a benefit. But there's more! Apparently, another detail has been withheld from all of us...Obama’s law also forces everyone to purchase pediatric dental insurance. That cost is not even included in these premiums. Our family is done! Cooked, broke; priced out of insuring our own family for the 1st time in our lives. And now we’ll be forced to pay fines for losing our health care. What about the subsidies you ask? The subsidies that we 'may' qualify for would help as our premiums would ONLY increase by 80%! But it puts us right where the government wants us; at their almighty feet begging for scraps to live on. With OUR own tax money; to help us pay for something that we'd paid long before they decided to 'help' us! We self-insured people are getting the first and hardest hit, but you ARE next because there is no way the US can afford to pay for all of this unless we ALL give it up.

Ann Wilde Clayton: I would like to know how long you have to wait to hear from anyone after you have uploaded documents to verify the income you will make in 2014. I can't do anything further to sign up til I hear back. The help center can't help. They haven't a clue. How many weeks should I wait? I have to sign up by Dec 31 because my present insurance expires. And I must sign up in the marketplace to get the subsidy for BCBS insurance which TRIPLED my premium from what I am paying now.

https://www.facebook.com/Healthcare.gov
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Old 11-01-2013, 09:07 PM   #45
trndobrd trndobrd is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Tolerance Box
Casino cash: $10031170
More stories waiting to be debunked:

Kirsten Smalley: Oh boy! Sign me up right away!! Bronze plan is 580 per month, now that is a tad bitter pill to swallow but what is even worse is the deductible for my husband and I (our daughter has a private plan and we have been uninsured since last August.) 12,000 deductible and NOTHING is paid for until after u meet deductible. Bet people are just mowing over one another to get at this primo medical insurance! Obama you can take your plans and....well, I'm just too much of a lady to even say it!

Lesley Willard: My daughter turns 27 in February. Her silver plan in CoveredCalifornia is $187 per month with $65 well patient doctor visits and $19 per scrip with a $5,000 deductible. So she is out almost $7,000 a year to pay for two doctor visits to get a year's worth of birth control pills. She can stay uninsured, pay a $95 fine and two check-ups and a PAP smear plus a year's worth of BCP for $4 on Cal Family. Guess which direction she's going. If my husband and I were to get insurance comparable to what we have now, our premiums go from $900 per month (we own our own business so that's the full price) to $1,470 with a $12,700 deductible. No Thank You!

Mary Riordan: I just looked at your prices in DE and they are ALL higher than I pay now. I am 62 years old!!!! Why do I need Maternity coverage. This plan is garbage. I don't want it. I can barely afford the $183 I pay now a month. These plans are all over $200 a month!!! You can keep it! I hope it does not go through!!!!!

Jason Hultberg: F this wtf I went on healthcare.gov I have no income they want 200 a month for single person even when I worked I payed 80 a month 2k deductible fu in this plan when I get back to work even at 28k a year single I cannot an will not afford 200 or more a month kiss my back side an I will never pay the penalty because I won't file to have taxes filed to a corrupt goverment

https://www.facebook.com/Healthcare.gov
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-jAZ
Posts: 6,608
trndobrd would the whole thing.trndobrd would the whole thing.trndobrd would the whole thing.trndobrd would the whole thing.trndobrd would the whole thing.trndobrd would the whole thing.trndobrd would the whole thing.trndobrd would the whole thing.trndobrd would the whole thing.trndobrd would the whole thing.trndobrd would the whole thing.
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