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Old 11-01-2013, 03:57 PM  
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Another Obamacare horror story debunked

The vast majority of Horror Stories are being Dubunked.

This is just one example.

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Deborah Cavallaro is a hard-working real estate agent in the Westchester suburb of Los Angeles who has been featured prominently on a round of news shows lately, talking about how badly Obamacare is going to cost her when her existing plan gets canceled and she has to find a replacement.

She says she's angry at President Obama for having promised that people who like their health plans could keep them, when hers is getting canceled for not meeting Obamacare's standards.

"Please explain to me," she told Maria Bartiromo on CNBC Wednesday, "how my plan is a 'substandard' plan when ... I'd be paying more for the exchange plans than I am currently paying by a wide margin."

Bartiromo didn't take her up on her request. So I will.

The bottom line is that Cavallaro's assertion that "there's nothing affordable about the Affordable Care Act," as she put it Tuesday on NBC Channel 4, is the product of her own misunderstandings, abetted by a passel of uninformed and incurious news reporters.

I talked with Cavallaro, 60, after her CNBC appearance. Let's walk through what she told me.

Her current plan, from Anthem Blue Cross, is a catastrophic coverage plan for which she pays $293 a month as an individual policyholder. It requires her to pay a deductible of $5,000 a year and limits her out-of-pocket costs to $8,500 a year. Her plan also limits her to two doctor visits a year, for which she shoulders a copay of $40 each. After that, she pays the whole cost of subsequent visits.

This fits the very definition of a nonconforming plan under Obamacare. The deductible and out-of-pocket maximums are too high, the provisions for doctor visits too skimpy.

As for a replacement plan, she says she was quoted $478 a month by her insurance broker, but that's a lot more than she'll really be paying. Cavallaro told me she hasn't checked the website of Covered California, the state's health plan exchange, herself. I did so while we talked.

Here's what I found. I won't divulge her current income, which is personal, but this year it qualifies her for a hefty federal premium subsidy.

At her age, she's eligible for a good "silver" plan for $333 a month after the subsidy -- $40 a month more than she's paying now. But the plan is much better than her current plan -- the deductible is $2,000, not $5,000. The maximum out-of-pocket expense is $6,350, not $8,500. Her co-pays would be $45 for a primary care visit and $65 for a specialty visit -- but all visits would be covered, not just two.

Is that better than her current plan? Yes, by a mile.

If she wanted to pay less, Cavallaro could opt for lesser coverage in a "bronze" plan. She could buy one from the California exchange for as little as $194 a month. From Anthem, it's $256, or $444 a year less than she's paying now. That buys her a $5,000 deductible (the same as she's paying today) but the out-of-pocket limit is lower, $6,350. Office visits would be $60 for primary care and $70 for specialties, but again with no limit on the number of visits. Factor in the premium savings, and it's hard to deny that she's still ahead.

Cavallaro told me a couple of things that are worth considering. First, what she likes about her current plan is that she can go to any doctor of her choice and any hospital. That's not entirely true, because her current plan with Anthem does favor a network. Plainly, however, it's broad enough to serve her purposes. She's concerned that the new plans will offer smaller networks, which is probably true, though it's not necessarily true that the new networks will exclude her favorite doctors, hospitals or prescription formularies.

She also mentioned that her annual income fluctuates. It can be substantially lower, or substantially higher, than it is this year. What if next year she earns too much to qualify for the subsidy? Also a fair point -- at her current income, the subsidy is worth more than $200 a month to her. But that's not the same as saying that "there's nothing affordable about the Affordable Care Act," because at her current income, the act is vastly more affordable to her than what she's paying now.

When she told Channel 4 that "for the first time in my whole life, I will be without insurance," it's hard to understand what she was talking about. (Channel 4 didn't ask.) Better plans than she has now are available for her to purchase today, some of them for less money.

The sad truth is that Cavallaro has been very poorly served by the health insurance industry and the news media. It seems that Anthem didn't adequately explain her options for 2014 when it disclosed that her current plan is being canceled. If her insurance brokers told her what she says they did, they failed her. And the reporters who interviewed her without getting all the facts produced inexcusably shoddy work -- from Maria Bartiromo on down. They not only did her a disservice, but failed the rest of us too.

http://www.latimes.com/business/hilt...#axzz2jPcI0f8w
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Old 11-03-2013, 09:54 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by GloryDayz View Post
Well there are actually some who asked for it. This guy and his sister(s) (pictured below him) prolly asked for it.



Lie. Moore wants a single payer system. You know, the cheapest most efficient system there is. "God" forbid people who you don't feel pull their weight get the same coverage as you, even though it would save us shitloads of cash.
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Old 11-03-2013, 10:07 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by aturnis View Post
Lie. Moore wants a single payer system. You know, the cheapest most efficient system there is. "God" forbid people who you don't feel pull their weight get the same coverage as you, even though it would save us shitloads of cash.
Single payer may be cheap, and only because the government dictates the price rather than a free market and there is no alternative, but it is hardly efficient. See there are many costs to a service. There is a monetary value what most people refer to as price but there are other costs. Time is the one that single payer programs make you pay. You will be waiting to see a doctor, to have tests done, and if you need it you will wait for non-life threatening surgery.

A single payer system simply swaps a monetary cost for a time cost.
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Old 11-03-2013, 10:44 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aturnis View Post
Lie. Moore wants a single payer system. You know, the cheapest most efficient system there is. "God" forbid people who you don't feel pull their weight get the same coverage as you, even though it would save us shitloads of cash.
Aren't you late for blowing up an airport or something? Or perhaps today was your day to take out TSA agents with surgical strikes! Or did you lose you OsamaPhone?

As for Moore, **** off; he's for anything that makes hardworking people pull the weight of bums and people who chose not to work. He b yo dady!
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Old 11-03-2013, 11:02 AM   #79
suzzer99 suzzer99 is offline
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Originally Posted by donkhater View Post
I got into a discussion with a French coworker of mine. He couldn't understand why the US doesn't go to the full nationalized health care. After talking about it with him for a while, what I realized is that the European culture is influenced by their monarch type history. They have always had a ruling class that has dictated their lifestyles.

America, of course, was built on the concepts of liberty and individualism. These tenets are being ignored by our current overlords. It is true that we, as a nation, have been drifting more slowly towards the European model, but it is not a match for the culture of the country and that should be taken into account.
Every other developed nation on earth has some form of universal healthcare. It's not just a European thing.

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Old 11-03-2013, 11:03 AM   #80
suzzer99 suzzer99 is offline
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Originally Posted by GloucesterChief View Post
Single payer may be cheap, and only because the government dictates the price rather than a free market and there is no alternative, but it is hardly efficient. See there are many costs to a service. There is a monetary value what most people refer to as price but there are other costs. Time is the one that single payer programs make you pay. You will be waiting to see a doctor, to have tests done, and if you need it you will wait for non-life threatening surgery.

A single payer system simply swaps a monetary cost for a time cost.
You mean like Medicare? I don't recall my parents or any of my aunts and uncles complaining about wait times.

Are you against Medicare in favor of the free market?
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Old 11-03-2013, 11:11 AM   #81
GloryDayz GloryDayz is online now
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Every other developed nation on earth has some form of universal healthcare. It's not just a European thing.

And our ERs can't turn down a bum who walks in, so we've had it for a while too. And I see China's on that map... Nice! Since you seem to be at least partly advocating we follow them (they're on the map!!), when can we pick up the other great idea they have of no employee rights, child sweat shops, and a one-child law? Yeah, let's be like China!

Don't worry, soon enough you'll get your way. As much as I hate it, I see there being plenty of lazy people who will keep the train to socialism on the tracks and steaming forward.
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Old 11-03-2013, 11:23 AM   #82
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You mean like Medicare? I don't recall my parents or any of my aunts and uncles complaining about wait times.

Are you against Medicare in favor of the free market?
Because medicare can leach off the private systems. One of the reasons are healthcare costs are so expensive is because hospitals and doctors overcharge private insurance to make up for the cost differential with medicare.

Once that is gone, medicare has nothing to leach off of, and time becomes the primary way to diffuse costs since every price is ordained by the government.
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Old 11-03-2013, 11:50 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
You mean like Medicare? I don't recall my parents or any of my aunts and uncles complaining about wait times.

Are you against Medicare in favor of the free market?


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Old 11-03-2013, 06:43 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Every other developed nation on earth has some form of universal healthcare. It's not just a European thing.
OK, but the context of my discussion was with a native European. No other country in the world has a culture like the U.S. Probably has something to do with never being ruled. (ya think?)

My point was that a health system in line with the culture of the country is going to most easily be backed by its citizens. Even thought the U.S. has been trending towards a socialist system, it runs counter to the inherent culture of the nation. That is why it has had a cool reception.
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Old 11-03-2013, 07:10 PM   #85
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Every other developed nation on earth has some form of universal healthcare. It's not just a European thing.

And yet ours (was) so much better that those who could afford it in every other country flocked to us when shit got real. Free monkey ball sweat ointments are still monkey ball sweat ointments.
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Old 11-03-2013, 07:37 PM   #86
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Old 11-03-2013, 09:53 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by GloryDayz View Post
Aren't you late for blowing up an airport or something? Or perhaps today was your day to take out TSA agents with surgical strikes! Or did you lose you OsamaPhone?

As for Moore, **** off; he's for anything that makes hardworking people pull the weight of bums and people who chose not to work. He b yo dady!
Wow you're an idiot. Keep blaming the poor you fuqtard. Why don't you go figure out how much of the total cost of welfare programs goes to full time Walmart and McDonald's employees.

You're subsidizing your heroes payroll.
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Old 11-03-2013, 09:56 PM   #88
aturnis aturnis is offline
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
You mean like Medicare? I don't recall my parents or any of my aunts and uncles complaining about wait times.

Are you against Medicare in favor of the free market?
You've got it wrong. He'll be back shortly to tell you "he has friends" in Canada! Is a go to Republican lie.
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Old 11-03-2013, 09:58 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by GloucesterChief View Post
Because medicare can leach off the private systems. One of the reasons are healthcare costs are so expensive is because hospitals and doctors overcharge private insurance to make up for the cost differential with medicare.

Once that is gone, medicare has nothing to leach off of, and time becomes the primary way to diffuse costs since every price is ordained by the government.
Wow you're uninformed.
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Old 11-03-2013, 10:07 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by aturnis View Post
Wow you're an idiot. Keep blaming the poor you fuqtard. Why don't you go figure out how much of the total cost of welfare programs goes to full time Walmart and McDonald's employees.

You're subsidizing your heroes payroll.
Hey ****-nose.... Being employed and meeting the metric for being on public assistance isn't anything new. Asshole! Most married members of the military below the rank of E-5 qualify for assistance. So what? They are examples, but not the rule. And as much as helping those military members probably pisses you terrorist ass off, that's hardly the point (for me). For me it's that people in the military don't get paid enough! But I'm sure that pisses-off a coward!

So **** off and go back to Iran shit-lips!
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