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Old 11-29-2013, 10:11 PM  
Ace Gunner Ace Gunner is offline
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'Playbook': Denver Broncos vs. Kansas City Chiefs

There's a point in this video for everybody. Good breakdowns of both teams. Here's some highlights;

*2 losses but don't blame Smiff

*Chiefs D giving up 34 points per game

*defense isn't making plays, can't get off the field

*DB Abdullah burned repeatedly

*Offense is deep threat illusion

*Asamoah is garbage

*Fish is and idiot

*Denver is running illegal picks


http://www.nfl.com/videos/kansas-cit...ncos-vs-Chiefs
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Old 11-30-2013, 11:06 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
Because the best qbs in the game are destroying zone coverages. You won't fool them with a blitz, and if you're playing zone with a free release, qbs don't have their timing disrupted. I would rather get beat by a pick or two than repeatedly let Peyton's receivers get a free release. Given how often they run the pick play, obviously other defenses think the same. only a few NFL teams play man/press base.

Again, we have to stop acting like there is a magic bullet for beating Peyton except for weather and Peyton beating himself. Zone, blitz, man... He's going to beat you often.
no, no they don't. the most successful defenses against SD & Denver play a lot of zone. Every team plays some zone and I don't know why you think the majority of NFL teams play man -- the majority of NFL teams are zone cover teams because there just isn't enough Revis/Sherman type players to go around.

as for disrupting the QB -- zone cover can certainly do so. in fact, there are a lot of coverage sacks created by zone defense.

the advantage to playing zone against Denver is that you have a much better chance of tackling a receiver for minimal YAC using players that aren't good enough to play press.

The Chiefs lost 27 - 17 last time. two of the TD's thrown by Manning could have been stopped for minimal gains had they played zone.
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Old 11-30-2013, 11:06 AM   #32
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Where is hef to eat crow on the picks?
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Old 11-30-2013, 11:09 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by PGM View Post
Where is hef to eat crow on the picks?
clearly illegal contact plays by design
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Old 11-30-2013, 11:11 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Anyong Bluth View Post
Well, the 2 teams that have been successful against Denver have mixed up their coverages with both man and zone, so at least Peyton didn't know before coming to the line what to expect every time. Would make more sense to do this now at home where crowd noise can at least give them a bit more trouble calling it at the line and also flashing blitzes or overload even if it's just a fake show and dropping back to give their line assignment confusion and possibly get them mixed up and letting a man go free by accident maybe?
If I'd seen your post before my last reply, I would have quoted you instead.
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Old 11-30-2013, 11:17 AM   #35
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Whenever I see a post referring to Alex Smith as Alex Smiff I stop reading it. I don't waste my time reading posts written by retards. It's about as lame as smack can get.
So if you were to slam the man you'd call him?...
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Old 11-30-2013, 11:24 AM   #36
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no, no they don't. the most successful defenses against SD & Denver play a lot of zone. Every team plays some zone and I don't know why you think the majority of NFL teams play man -- the majority of NFL teams are zone cover teams because there just isn't enough Revis/Sherman type players to go around.

as for disrupting the QB -- zone cover can certainly do so. in fact, there are a lot of coverage sacks created by zone defense.

the advantage to playing zone against Denver is that you have a much better chance of tackling a receiver for minimal YAC using players that aren't good enough to play press.

The Chiefs lost 27 - 17 last time. two of the TD's thrown by Manning could have been stopped for minimal gains had they played zone.
The majority of teams are playing heavy man against Peyton. Or at least pressing the hell out of receivers.

The chiefs were actually excellent against Denver at containing yac. They stopped several plays short with an excellent tackle before the chains. I thought the help defense was excellent for the most part at containing the long play.

The chiefs gave up 2 Tds. One was on a blown coverage which is more due to coopers inexperience than it was talent. Again, if we are talking about Peyton manning and getting upset over a handful of plays... Good. It's Peyton manning. We have a lot less plays to complain about than most defenses do. If we play zone, who's to say Peyton doesn't pick us apart? Given that most coordinators are pressing Peyton's receivers and that every single person from the New England tree says that's the formula to success, the best way is still to disrupt timing of his receivers. You just can't let Peyton's receivers get a free release.

Peyton will pick apart a zone. We will be fine in man. It's not scheme, we just need our corners to play more consistent, especially cooper.
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Old 11-30-2013, 11:26 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
Whenever I see a post referring to Alex Smith as Alex Smiff I stop reading it. I don't waste my time reading posts written by retards. It's about as lame as smack can get.
I got a good laugh from your post. I have been one of the few posters that actually write Smiffy's pros/cons. this thread is a example.

if you had viewed that video, you would have seen the segment outlining the fact Smiff's WR's are decoys to "a short pass game designed to get the ball out fast".

this offense is designed by Reid -- if you don't like the short pass game, he's the guy calling it and Smiff is running it according to plan.

With an OL as porous as the Chiefs OL is, I'd say only a fool would try to force a long pass game on this offense -- at the same time Trotter is ripping the Chiefs' game plan, he points to a sack taken because Asamoah totally lets a DT come right through the A gap and pancake Smiff.
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Old 11-30-2013, 11:43 AM   #38
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I think we should give Manning some different looks from zone to man. Tough thing is our safeties have shown they are no good in helping over the top. A thing about playing zone against Manning though, if we can prevent him from releasing the ball within the first 2 seconds from snap, his decreased arm strength means the ball is in the air longer. This favors playing zone coverage because the DBs can make a break on the ball.

Think about this: in basketball, a good post player wants to keep a body on his defender so he knows where to position himself to make the catch on an inside pass. This can't be done against a zone in basketball because the zone defender player doesn't make contact with the guy inside. Similarly in football, the defender in man coverage (unless he has superb positioning) is a step behind the receiver and the receiver can position himself to make the ball impossible to get to. The DB has to go through the WR to have a chance at the ball.

This wouldn't work against all QB's, and not even Peyton in all circumstances. But in select spots, taking advantage of Peyton's decreased arm strength in zone would decrease some of that YAC.
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Old 11-30-2013, 11:53 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Anyong Bluth View Post
Well, the 2 teams that have been successful against Denver have mixed up their coverages with both man and zone, so at least Peyton didn't know before coming to the line what to expect every time. Would make more sense to do this now at home where crowd noise can at least give them a bit more trouble calling it at the line and also flashing blitzes or overload even if it's just a fake show and dropping back to give their line assignment confusion and possibly get them mixed up and letting a man go free by accident maybe?
Well, I would argue that Kansas City played Denver as well as any of them, especially considering that they played on the road. I do agree that playing at home gives them more opportunity to mix things up. Oline especially might struggle to get the checks. But our base absolutely has to be man.
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Old 11-30-2013, 12:11 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
The majority of teams are playing heavy man against Peyton. Or at least pressing the hell out of receivers.

The chiefs were actually excellent against Denver at containing yac. They stopped several plays short with an excellent tackle before the chains. I thought the help defense was excellent for the most part at containing the long play.

The chiefs gave up 2 Tds. One was on a blown coverage which is more due to coopers inexperience than it was talent. Again, if we are talking about Peyton manning and getting upset over a handful of plays... Good. It's Peyton manning. We have a lot less plays to complain about than most defenses do. If we play zone, who's to say Peyton doesn't pick us apart? Given that most coordinators are pressing Peyton's receivers and that every single person from the New England tree says that's the formula to success, the best way is still to disrupt timing of his receivers. You just can't let Peyton's receivers get a free release.

Peyton will pick apart a zone. We will be fine in man. It's not scheme, we just need our corners to play more consistent, especially cooper.
The last 2 weeks we've been giving up gobs of yac. When you play press man with a single high safety, it happens but we need to tackle better.

I think you can play zone against manning, but you have to be disciplined in doing it an get a rush with 4.

I dunno if we can do either
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Old 11-30-2013, 02:35 PM   #41
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so you come in here, spew your bullshit and have not one comment about the video. get the **** out.
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Old 11-30-2013, 05:28 PM   #42
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How bout Sterling throwing the Chiefs some love, good on him... but its gonna be a tough game, i'm under no illusions.

I'd like to think that the noise will get their O line a bit jumpy, maybe draw some offsides and help us get some pressure.

It needs to be a Jamaal Charles showcase, run his damn legs off tomorrow, i wanna see atleast a buck fifty from him and go play action off of that.
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Old 12-01-2013, 08:11 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Cornstock View Post
I think we should give Manning some different looks from zone to man. Tough thing is our safeties have shown they are no good in helping over the top. A thing about playing zone against Manning though, if we can prevent him from releasing the ball within the first 2 seconds from snap, his decreased arm strength means the ball is in the air longer. This favors playing zone coverage because the DBs can make a break on the ball.

Think about this: in basketball, a good post player wants to keep a body on his defender so he knows where to position himself to make the catch on an inside pass. This can't be done against a zone in basketball because the zone defender player doesn't make contact with the guy inside. Similarly in football, the defender in man coverage (unless he has superb positioning) is a step behind the receiver and the receiver can position himself to make the ball impossible to get to. The DB has to go through the WR to have a chance at the ball.

This wouldn't work against all QB's, and not even Peyton in all circumstances. But in select spots, taking advantage of Peyton's decreased arm strength in zone would decrease some of that YAC.
yeah, that's pretty much it. these Denver WR's can run all the rubs/crosses in front of our zone cover players and when the ball gets there, our guys can knock the snot outta them and make it incomplete. if nothing else, it limits YAC and forces Denver to run deeper routes on 3rd downs, which gives the Chiefs defense a chance at sacking Manning.
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Old 12-01-2013, 08:19 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by scott free View Post
How bout Sterling throwing the Chiefs some love, good on him... but its gonna be a tough game, i'm under no illusions.

I'd like to think that the noise will get their O line a bit jumpy, maybe draw some offsides and help us get some pressure.

It needs to be a Jamaal Charles showcase, run his damn legs off tomorrow, i wanna see atleast a buck fifty from him and go play action off of that.
every team stacks the box on the Chiefs. They need to pass in order to set up the run, it's how this offense is set up. Jamaal needs to catch those passes first -- both at WR & RB, the run will come from passing.
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Old 12-01-2013, 09:22 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Ace Gunner View Post
yeah, that's pretty much it. these Denver WR's can run all the rubs/crosses in front of our zone cover players and when the ball gets there, our guys can knock the snot outta them and make it incomplete. if nothing else, it limits YAC and forces Denver to run deeper routes on 3rd downs, which gives the Chiefs defense a chance at sacking Manning.
Why would it not be possible to come out with a few presnap looks where we're showing an overload blitz through the A gaps. This is the only point of attack that a defender can possibly get to the QB in about 2 seconds if Manning wants to setup in the shotgun again and look for the immediate throw. This is typically where they're going to run those crossing and inside routes, but there's some things that you can do by essentially forcing their hand at the line by showing this heavy interior blitz design.

1. On occasion actually send an extra guy or 2 if daring and looking at a long distance 3rd down conversion.

2. Show blitz and then drop those guys to play a zone cover in the middle against those shallow routes- possibly creating enough block assignment confusion to hurry his throws and by playing those passing lanes to either knock it down or come up with an interception.

Be honest- how many deep strike balls is Manning going to burn you with as he's banged up, and with his neck and nerve damage he doesn't have the same strike capability of previous years. He's never had a pretty ball, but has been surgical in his placement. The cold and wind further agitate the nerve damage and his ability to grip the ball- which is why he is so prone to fumbling if he does get hit ever, and limits his range of motion in getting the ball out there. Look at his throws after taking a good lick at Indianapolis. His throws had almost no zip on it and looked like floating ducks.

I still say you gamble early to get a good chance of a few solid hits on him and watch it affect his effectiveness for the rest of the game and then play the coverage to take away the underneath and middle of the field. If you make him have to work the sidelines and deeper stuff he may be successful but there's a much greater chance that he will be off on a throw here or there that can help kill a drive and force a punt or prevent the touchdown.

Ironic that essentially that's what many would say you want to do with Smith as he is also all about the shallow routes and middle of the field. This isn't the same as facing a guy like Rivers who can actually strike with deep precision and hit his guys anywhere on the field because he has the arm strength, velocity, and touch to torch you at any level on a consistent basis.


Another interesting thing is to see if last week was truly a sign that they are going to put greater demand on Alex to keep stretching the field and throwing the longer balls. So many just assume he has a shitty long ball and can only dink and dunk the ball, but I'd argue that half of the struggle has also been self imposed.

For some long he's been instructed to take the short pass and be ultra conservative. Like anything else- if you do something and practice it with higher frequency, it tends to improve your performance. Which is why we've seen a number of times when he has been forced to take shots down the field he has on quite a few times been just a little off in his throws. I can think of quite a few plays where the ball was about a yard or 2 outside the receivers reach.

That's not horrid inability to actually convert on those plays. Simply adjusting those throws by getting a better feel for his guys and their timing can see some improvement on his completion %. That's not even including times where the incompletion wasn't because of Smith and more attributed to the guy catching the ball- like getting jammed and behind on the routes timing, which when you are watching the play will simply look like Alex is to blame for overthrowing his man. Not to mention all of the balls that should have been completed and our guys simply dropped the ball, as we are 3rd in the league for most dropped catches.
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