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Old 11-30-2013, 08:25 PM  
ChiefsandO'sfan ChiefsandO'sfan is offline
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RIP Paul Walker

http://www.tmz.com/2013/11/30/paul-w...al-fire-crash/



Paul Walker -- best known for his role in "The Fast and the Furious" movies -- died Saturday afternoon after a single-car accident and explosion in Southern California ... TMZ has learned.

The accident happened in Santa Clarita -- north of Los Angeles -- and according to multiple sources connected to Paul ... the actor was in a Porsche when the driver somehow lost control and slammed into a post or a tree ... and then the car burst into flames.

Several of our sources -- some who are still at the scene of the accident -- tell us Paul and another person in the car were killed. Law enforcement is still on the scene, and we're told the L.A. County Coroner's Office is on the way.

1130_paul_walker_accident_scene_twitterAt this point, it's unclear what caused the accident, or who was behind the wheel when it happened.

Paul was 40 years old.

Sources close to Paul tell us he was in Santa Clarita for a car show to support the Philippines typhoon relief effort, and had been taking friends out for rides in his new Porsche GT. The accident happened during one of those test spins.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2013/11/30/paul-w...#ixzz2mBbZkyJy
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Old 12-02-2013, 05:27 PM   #211
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Why would you think that? Especially both drugs and alcohol? I think it is more likely that it was as a mechanical malfunction or loss of control somehow at high speed.
Agreed- its called driver error.
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Old 12-02-2013, 05:33 PM   #212
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Heh the person who wrote that doesn't really understand how cars work(or at least the person who released that). Power steering fluid leaks are not a point of critical failure. If you lose fluid you don't lose steering, you lose power assist to your steering which means the wheel becomes noticeably harder to turn. He would still have been able to turn, just not usually as sharply as if with power steering. If he didn't turn it wasn't a power steering fluid 'leak'.

It might have been a linkage failure or some other issue but not simply fluid...
Ya and it wouldn't be instantaneous either. You'd have to do a full rotation of the steering wheel in both directions to their maximum to bleed out all the steering fluid. It just doesn't work like that and typically gets stiffer and stiffer as you continue to drive - doesn't just seize up all of a sudden.
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Old 12-02-2013, 05:49 PM   #213
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NBC showing a story now on Paul Walker, hearing his dad talk about him was heart wrenching
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Old 12-02-2013, 05:51 PM   #214
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Police have ruled out a 2nd car and are focusing on speed, donut spins and possibly a blown tire
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Old 12-02-2013, 05:52 PM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyPhuD View Post
Heh the person who wrote that doesn't really understand how cars work(or at least the person who released that). Power steering fluid leaks are not a point of critical failure. If you lose fluid you don't lose steering, you lose power assist to your steering which means the wheel becomes noticeably harder to turn. He would still have been able to turn, just not usually as sharply as if with power steering. If he didn't turn it wasn't a power steering fluid 'leak'.

It might have been a linkage failure or some other issue but not simply fluid...
I think we would need to know more about the technology Porsche uses in a new Carrera GT before we can determine what did or didn't cause it.

I'm probably wrong, but i'd think a $500K Porsche super car is a bit more complex than your everyday chevy.
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Old 12-02-2013, 06:05 PM   #216
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he was probably rolling with Firestones.
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Old 12-02-2013, 06:36 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
I think we would need to know more about the technology Porsche uses in a new Carrera GT before we can determine what did or didn't cause it.

I'm probably wrong, but i'd think a $500K Porsche super car is a bit more complex than your everyday chevy.
I would say extremely unlikely in this case. While I'm sure if I wanted to spend the time I could find the manuals/exploded parts diagrams to be 100% definitive. I'm about 99% sure it's traditional steering setup. Why? Because the only way it's really a critical error is if it's steer by wire system, frankly I'm not sure anyone is doing that yet.

The primary reason(especially for sports/supercars) is feel. With direct linkage you feel the car and feel the road, if your steering doesn't have a direct linkage to the wheels you lose feeling and have numb steering which is quite bad for performance driving. Hell the Porsche community was up in arms when the 997 came out because it was coming with electronic steering assist versus hydraulic.

People used to hate on electric power steering assist because it gave that 'numb' feeling. For any supercar that's meant to be raced/tracked it would be unheard of to remove the driver feedback by unlinking the steering, much less a Porsche.

Steering links could have broken which would have disabled it, but no way a loss of fluid alone caused a loss of steering control. The mechanical connection would have still been there.
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Old 12-02-2013, 06:54 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by CrazyPhuD View Post
I would say extremely unlikely in this case. While I'm sure if I wanted to spend the time I could find the manuals/exploded parts diagrams to be 100% definitive. I'm about 99% sure it's traditional steering setup. Why? Because the only way it's really a critical error is if it's steer by wire system, frankly I'm not sure anyone is doing that yet.

The primary reason(especially for sports/supercars) is feel. With direct linkage you feel the car and feel the road, if your steering doesn't have a direct linkage to the wheels you lose feeling and have numb steering which is quite bad for performance driving. Hell the Porsche community was up in arms when the 997 came out because it was coming with electronic steering assist versus hydraulic.

People used to hate on electric power steering assist because it gave that 'numb' feeling. For any supercar that's meant to be raced/tracked it would be unheard of to remove the driver feedback by unlinking the steering, much less a Porsche.

Steering links could have broken which would have disabled it, but no way a loss of fluid alone caused a loss of steering control. The mechanical connection would have still been there.
and USUALLY at speed its still fairly easy to turn the wheel
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Old 12-02-2013, 07:00 PM   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
I think we would need to know more about the technology Porsche uses in a new Carrera GT before we can determine what did or didn't cause it.

I'm probably wrong, but i'd think a $500K Porsche super car is a bit more complex than your everyday chevy.
It wasn't a new one. 2006-2008. Brand new they were a million IIRC


And they were bad ass. Should be a carbon fiber monocoque.


Edit: just looked it up. Pure carbon fiber monocoque and subframe. They were hauling balls to cause that much damage. Also, not buying power steering leak as the cause. Driver error is my bet.
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Old 12-02-2013, 07:11 PM   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyPhuD View Post
I would say extremely unlikely in this case. While I'm sure if I wanted to spend the time I could find the manuals/exploded parts diagrams to be 100% definitive. I'm about 99% sure it's traditional steering setup. Why? Because the only way it's really a critical error is if it's steer by wire system, frankly I'm not sure anyone is doing that yet.

The primary reason(especially for sports/supercars) is feel. With direct linkage you feel the car and feel the road, if your steering doesn't have a direct linkage to the wheels you lose feeling and have numb steering which is quite bad for performance driving. Hell the Porsche community was up in arms when the 997 came out because it was coming with electronic steering assist versus hydraulic.

People used to hate on electric power steering assist because it gave that 'numb' feeling. For any supercar that's meant to be raced/tracked it would be unheard of to remove the driver feedback by unlinking the steering, much less a Porsche.

Steering links could have broken which would have disabled it, but no way a loss of fluid alone caused a loss of steering control. The mechanical connection would have still been there.
Lets say it is a traditional power steering set up (I agree, it most likely is), then it's not unreasonable to believe that there could have been a failure in a steering line. The pumps i deal with at work can put out as much as 2200PSI, which is certainly enough to turn a small leak into a complete bust if it's leaking from the fitting/hose end.

I'm not trying to argue with you, just stating that we don't know enough to dismiss what the report is saying.

I know my Trans Am is a pain in the ass to steer when i lose power steering, i could only imagine how difficult it would be to steer it around a corner at 120+ MPH.
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Old 12-02-2013, 07:13 PM   #221
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It wasn't a new one. 2006-2008. Brand new they were a million IIRC


And they were bad ass. Should be a carbon fiber monocoque.


Edit: just looked it up. Pure carbon fiber monocoque and subframe. They were hauling balls to cause that much damage. Also, not buying power steering leak as the cause. Driver error is my bet.
Driver error is the most logical, but according to reports, it would also mean he drove straight ahead into (whatever it was that he hit).

If there was a stream of fluid before the impact and no tire marks....that COULD mean mechanical error.
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Old 12-02-2013, 07:14 PM   #222
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Lets say it is a traditional power steering set up (I agree, it most likely is), then it's not unreasonable to believe that there could have been a failure in a steering line. The pumps i deal with at work can put out as much as 2200PSI, which is certainly enough to turn a small leak into a complete bust if it's leaking from the fitting/hose end.

I'm not trying to argue with you, just stating that we don't know enough to dismiss what the report is saying.

I know my Trans Am is a pain in the ass to steer when i lose power steering, i could only imagine how difficult it would be to steer it around a corner at 120+ MPH.
again there would be less tire friction at those speeds and it wouldn't be as hard to turn as one would think IMO.

I think the bigger question is if the fluid caught fire and caused something to explode
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Old 12-02-2013, 07:16 PM   #223
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and actually there are quite a few cars that have a pressure switch that cuts down the line pressure at highway speeds.

they get too easy to turn if they don't do it and make the car feel like you have to herd it down the road
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Old 12-02-2013, 07:18 PM   #224
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Driver error is the most logical, but according to reports, it would also mean he drove straight ahead into (whatever it was that he hit).

If there was a stream of fluid before the impact and no tire marks....that COULD mean mechanical error.
Or the car realized it was about to die and pissed itself before impact.
(sorry couldn't resist. )

Frankly if there's any fluid loss that could have caused said event I would put my money more on a brake fluid loss.

If the driver lost it and realized it was going badly and put both feet in but the brakes were gone the resultant confusion might have lasted long enough for him not to turn depending upon how fast he went.
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Old 12-02-2013, 07:19 PM   #225
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Driver error is the most logical, but according to reports, it would also mean he drove straight ahead into (whatever it was that he hit).

If there was a stream of fluid before the impact and no tire marks....that COULD mean mechanical error.
The hood isn't wrecked to shit. They had side impacts to do that damage. It looks like they may have hit shit with both sides of the car.
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