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Old 11-30-2013, 07:25 PM  
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RIP Paul Walker

http://www.tmz.com/2013/11/30/paul-w...al-fire-crash/



Paul Walker -- best known for his role in "The Fast and the Furious" movies -- died Saturday afternoon after a single-car accident and explosion in Southern California ... TMZ has learned.

The accident happened in Santa Clarita -- north of Los Angeles -- and according to multiple sources connected to Paul ... the actor was in a Porsche when the driver somehow lost control and slammed into a post or a tree ... and then the car burst into flames.

Several of our sources -- some who are still at the scene of the accident -- tell us Paul and another person in the car were killed. Law enforcement is still on the scene, and we're told the L.A. County Coroner's Office is on the way.

1130_paul_walker_accident_scene_twitterAt this point, it's unclear what caused the accident, or who was behind the wheel when it happened.

Paul was 40 years old.

Sources close to Paul tell us he was in Santa Clarita for a car show to support the Philippines typhoon relief effort, and had been taking friends out for rides in his new Porsche GT. The accident happened during one of those test spins.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2013/11/30/paul-w...#ixzz2mBbZkyJy
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Old 12-02-2013, 06:20 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by CrazyPhuD View Post
Or the car realized it was about to die and pissed itself before impact.
(sorry couldn't resist. )

Frankly if there's any fluid loss that could have caused said event I would put my money more on a brake fluid loss.

If the drive lost it and realized it was going badly and put both feet in but the brakes were gone the resultant confusion might have lasted long enough for him not to turn depending upon how fast he went.
wasn't the driver a well qualified driver? experienced?

I would think (here goes me thinking) he would know how to react in that situation.
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Old 12-02-2013, 06:21 PM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
Lets say it is a traditional power steering set up (I agree, it most likely is), then it's not unreasonable to believe that there could have been a failure in a steering line. The pumps i deal with at work can put out as much as 2200PSI, which is certainly enough to turn a small leak into a complete bust if it's leaking from the fitting/hose end.

I'm not trying to argue with you, just stating that we don't know enough to dismiss what the report is saying.

I know my Trans Am is a pain in the ass to steer when i lose power steering, i could only imagine how difficult it would be to steer it around a corner at 120+ MPH.
It's easier to steer when the car is moving faster than at low speeds if you lose power steering (I had a POS trans am that had it's power steering go out and my caddy had some power steering issues for a while as well).
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Old 12-02-2013, 06:22 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by Race Card native View Post
It's easier to steer when the car is moving faster than at low speeds if you lose power steering (I had a POS trans am that had it's power steering go out and my caddy had some power steering issues for a while as well).
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Old 12-02-2013, 06:23 PM   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO View Post
wasn't the driver a well qualified driver? experienced?

I would think (here goes me thinking) he would know how to react in that situation.
You would think he would. Different people handle panic situations differently.
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Old 12-02-2013, 06:24 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by Race Card native View Post
You would think he would. Different people handle panic situations differently.
true but an experienced race driver most likely would have been put in that situation many times...
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Old 12-02-2013, 06:26 PM   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO View Post
wasn't the driver a well qualified driver? experienced?

I would think (here goes me thinking) he would know how to react in that situation.
One would think, but when unexpected things happen sometimes people panic. Losing the brakes would probably confuse anyone, how long depends upon experience and how long he has to react(i.e. how fast he was going).

Still I'd like to think he would be steering to try to avoid things like trees even if braking. A choice between directly into a tree or a glancing blow and I know which one I'd prefer.

That said it's possible he went into the curb at an angle thinking he was going to shoot the gap between the trees. The problem is when he hit the curb the nose would stop but the back end wouldn't which could have then spun the car into the tree/light pole.

That's the difference between the track and the street. Go off-track and you run off into the grass/wall. Go off street and you nail a curb which can then launch you anywhere.
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Old 12-02-2013, 06:31 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyPhuD View Post
One would think, but when unexpected things happen sometimes people panic. Losing the brakes would probably confuse anyone, how long depends upon experience and how long he has to react(i.e. how fast he was going).

Still I'd like to think he would be steering to try to avoid things like trees even if braking. A choice between directly into a tree or a glancing blow and I know which one I'd prefer.

That said it's possible he went into the curb at an angle thinking he was going to shoot the gap between the trees. The problem is when he hit the curb the nose would stop but the back end wouldn't which could have then spun the car into the tree/light pole.

That's the difference between the track and the street. Go off-track and you run off into the grass/wall. Go off street and you nail a curb which can then launch you anywhere.
Fire department said they hit a tree, then a light pole, and then another tree.
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Old 12-02-2013, 06:45 PM   #233
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Instead of power steering fluid, could it have been brake fluid?

I say this due to they state that there were no skid marks up until time of impact. If they are going fast and hit the brakes and there is no fluid then there is no skid mark. You would then resort to the E-brake but that really only helps on the rear wheels. (at least on your average family car)

So the driver is going fast, comes into a corner to hot and tries to brake but no brakes, he has no time to think so the last resort before the crash is to try the emergency brake to slow the vehicle down.

Also in racing it is taught to do "Straight Line Braking". If you are turning the car then the weight is transferred to which ever side is turning. So lets say you are turning left, then the weight of the car is moving right. If you brake, the weight of the car is moving forward. The best example is to get a folding chair and lean it right or left depending on how you are turning. Then lean it forward during the turn to simulate braking and you see how the weight transfers to the front "tires" and how easily it can then have the back end of the car come around. With a Porsche that has a tendency to get squirrely due to where the engine is and other factors, this above example might get exaggerated.

Why I am bringing this up is why there may have not been any steering input by the driver. He may have thought any steering input would have put the car into a much worse type of spin and believed hitting whatever might have been a better choice. This story could have really been about Paul Walker and Driver wrecking a $300,000 sports car and everyone could be all self righteous about the Hollywood rich folk just breaking up a beautiful car. Both Paul and the Driver are in the hospital and here are pictures of the ruined car. They get out in a couple of weeks with some scratches or broken bones or something and everyone forgets about it.

Unfortunately, after the initial impact which may have forced the two unconscious, the car ignites on fire from a source located at the front of the car. Is exotic Brake Fluid flammable? They wouldn't be using regular off the shelf Dot 3 brake fluid in an exotic race car. But the engine and all the hot stuff is in the back...if the brake fluid line bursts up front and spayed onto something hot it wasn't the engine.

So just my .10 cents worth of tinfoil for what happened here.
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Old 12-02-2013, 06:46 PM   #234
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Yeah, the more i read about it and the more i see, the more i lean towards driver error.


One thing i've learned since being around fast cars, you don't **** with supercars. I knew a guy who purchased a Ford GT off some guy who owned it for only a month. The guy was selling it because the car scared the shit out of him.
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Old 12-02-2013, 06:47 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barret View Post
Instead of power steering fluid, could it have been brake fluid?

I say this due to they state that there were no skid marks up until time of impact. If they are going fast and hit the brakes and there is no fluid then there is no skid mark. You would then resort to the E-brake but that really only helps on the rear wheels. (at least on your average family car)

So the driver is going fast, comes into a corner to hot and tries to brake but no brakes, he has no time to think so the last resort before the crash is to try the emergency brake to slow the vehicle down.

Also in racing it is taught to do "Straight Line Braking". If you are turning the car then the weight is transferred to which ever side is turning. So lets say you are turning left, then the weight of the car is moving right. If you brake, the weight of the car is moving forward. The best example is to get a folding chair and lean it right or left depending on how you are turning. Then lean it forward during the turn to simulate braking and you see how the weight transfers to the front "tires" and how easily it can then have the back end of the car come around. With a Porsche that has a tendency to get squirrely due to where the engine is and other factors, this above example might get exaggerated.

Why I am bringing this up is why there may have not been any steering input by the driver. He may have thought any steering input would have put the car into a much worse type of spin and believed hitting whatever might have been a better choice. This story could have really been about Paul Walker and Driver wrecking a $300,000 sports car and everyone could be all self righteous about the Hollywood rich folk just breaking up a beautiful car. Both Paul and the Driver are in the hospital and here are pictures of the ruined car. They get out in a couple of weeks with some scratches or broken bones or something and everyone forgets about it.

Unfortunately, after the initial impact which may have forced the two unconscious, the car ignites on fire from a source located at the front of the car. Is exotic Brake Fluid flammable? They wouldn't be using regular off the shelf Dot 3 brake fluid in an exotic race car. But the engine and all the hot stuff is in the back...if the brake fluid line bursts up front and spayed onto something hot it wasn't the engine.

So just my .10 cents worth of tinfoil for what happened here.
There would still be brakes though. They'd simply revert to manual brakes.
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Old 12-02-2013, 06:48 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
Yeah, the more i read about it and the more i see, the more i lean towards driver error.


One thing i've learned since being around fast cars, you don't **** with supercars. I knew a guy who purchased a Ford GT off some guy who owned it for only a month. The guy was selling it because the car scared the shit out of him.
I remember the bill cosby story Shelby told about the other super snake.
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Old 12-02-2013, 06:50 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
There would still be brakes though. They'd simply revert to manual brakes.
not if they lost all the fluid.


but you know as well as I do in those cars thats almost impossible
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Old 12-02-2013, 06:53 PM   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barret View Post
Instead of power steering fluid, could it have been brake fluid?

I say this due to they state that there were no skid marks up until time of impact. If they are going fast and hit the brakes and there is no fluid then there is no skid mark. You would then resort to the E-brake but that really only helps on the rear wheels. (at least on your average family car)

So the driver is going fast, comes into a corner to hot and tries to brake but no brakes, he has no time to think so the last resort before the crash is to try the emergency brake to slow the vehicle down.

Also in racing it is taught to do "Straight Line Braking". If you are turning the car then the weight is transferred to which ever side is turning. So lets say you are turning left, then the weight of the car is moving right. If you brake, the weight of the car is moving forward. The best example is to get a folding chair and lean it right or left depending on how you are turning. Then lean it forward during the turn to simulate braking and you see how the weight transfers to the front "tires" and how easily it can then have the back end of the car come around. With a Porsche that has a tendency to get squirrely due to where the engine is and other factors, this above example might get exaggerated.

Why I am bringing this up is why there may have not been any steering input by the driver. He may have thought any steering input would have put the car into a much worse type of spin and believed hitting whatever might have been a better choice. This story could have really been about Paul Walker and Driver wrecking a $300,000 sports car and everyone could be all self righteous about the Hollywood rich folk just breaking up a beautiful car. Both Paul and the Driver are in the hospital and here are pictures of the ruined car. They get out in a couple of weeks with some scratches or broken bones or something and everyone forgets about it.

Unfortunately, after the initial impact which may have forced the two unconscious, the car ignites on fire from a source located at the front of the car. Is exotic Brake Fluid flammable? They wouldn't be using regular off the shelf Dot 3 brake fluid in an exotic race car. But the engine and all the hot stuff is in the back...if the brake fluid line bursts up front and spayed onto something hot it wasn't the engine.

So just my .10 cents worth of tinfoil for what happened here.
this Porsche is a mid engine V10, not a rear engine boxer 6. The rear engine 911 variants do corner a little differently due to the weight in the back but it provides excellent cornering in that IF you hit the accelerator instead of breaking too long, the back tires really, really stick and you sweep through the corner much faster.
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Old 12-02-2013, 09:08 PM   #239
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Ouch...this guy is cold, but it's pretty much the truth about guys like this.


http://www.hollywood-elsewhere.com/2013/12/dead-end-2/


I’m sure Kramer and Cohen are as devastated as Vin Diesel and everyone else who knew and worked with Walker. This is sad as hell, and ghastly to boot. Slamming into a pole at high speed and then being engulfed by flames…good God. A terrible and senseless way to die. Because the circumstances seem to indicate recklessness. They certainly don’t indicate moderation and restraint.

The Porsche Carrera that Walker died in was owned and was being driven by Walker’s friend, wealth management advisor and philanthropic partner Roger Rodas, who was also a former race-car driver. Rodas had a side business as the CEO of Always Evolving, a car customization shop in Santa Clarita. Walker and Rodas had raced cars together in the Pirelli World Challenge series, and “had decided to take Rodas’s rare Porsche Carrera GT from a car show at his building to the Reach Out Worldwide charity event in Los Angeles,” according to one report.

Rodas and Walker “had been friends and had been racing for several years before they began collaborating on Walker’s finances,” according to a web page for The Rodas Group, the Merrill-Lynch financial management company.

Walker’s Wiki page reports that “shortly after leaving in Rodas’ red Porsche Carrera GT, the driver (i.e., Rodas) lost control and crashed into a light pole and tree in Valencia, California and burst into flames.”

Take a look at the photo of Rodas’s demolished Porsche Carrera. It looks as completely obliterated as James Dean‘s Porsche Spyder did after the car crash that killed Dean in September 1955. Who loses control of a classic Porsche and turns it into a pile of mangled rubble in the middle of the afternoon in a sleepy Los Angeles suburb? Who slams a Porsche into a light pole and a tree at high speed? Someone who’s been driving outside the posted speed limit, I’d say. Is it disrespectful to note that all race-car enthusiasts are adrenalin junkies, and that these two were probably enjoying the juice a few seconds before they died?

That’s what car enthusiasts live for, no? Not to die, obviously, but, in their parlance and by the laws of their realm, to live to the fullest.

But even if they were speeding beyond any sense of rationality or restraint you would think that a former race-car driver would know how to handle a well-engineered car like a Porsche Carrera…aahh, the hell with it. The investigation will determine the circumstances and likely cause soon enough.
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Old 12-03-2013, 12:47 AM   #240
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