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Old 12-13-2013, 03:02 AM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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An interesting hole in evolutionary theory (as we understand it)

I came across this in my travels tonight, and thought it might make for an eye-brow raiser...

The long and short of it - some researchers decided to reverse apply Moore's Law to human biology. Using their Moore's Law-based computations, they first applied it to modern computers, and came up with the right answer - that microchips showed up right around the 1960's.

They then took the same computations and applied it to biological complexity (which, of course, humans are the pinnacle of as we know it). The results suggest that life began 5 billion years before the Earth even existed...



What it really means, who knows... The researchers who ran the computations refused to call it a theory and instead label it a "thought excersize" (the cowards!). In any case, it's pretty damned interesting.

The article can be read here:
http://phys.org/news/2013-04-law-life-began-earth.html
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Old 12-15-2013, 04:31 AM   #121
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I must be since I read the post again three times and can't fully understand if it's sarcasm or gibberish.

But back to the subject since you keep bringing it up. Are you actually worried that religion is or will get in the way of scientific research here in the US?

Again, that's silly.
Oh really?

The video below is 10 minutes long. It's worth watching. Neil DeGrasse Tyson talks about the intellectual collapse of the Arab world after those countries turned into Islamic theocracies and changed the focus of their societies from scientific exploration to religious revelation.

If the people who keep pushing Intelligent Design were in charge, that's exactly what could happen to the United States. It's happened before on this planet. What makes you think it couldn't happen here? It wouldn't require that we change into a religious theocracy that brutalizes its women in the manner that the Islamic countries do. All that would have to happen is that this country change enough to lose its competitive advantage economically to countries like China, Germany, and Japan. Handicapping our students by filling their brains with religious myths and telling them IN ****ING SCIENCE CLASS that creationism and evolution are equally valid theories will make them less able to compete with students around the world who don't have to be confused by this nonsense.

One thing I can guarantee you: Killer Clown will refuse to watch this video. He thinks he already has all of the answers because the Bible tells him everything he needs to know. People like him are dangerous to our way of life because they would dearly love to turn our nation into a Christian theocracy in which the story of Adam and Eve is taught as scientific fact and the theory of evolution is banned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl1nJC3lvFs
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Old 12-15-2013, 09:35 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
Oh really?

The video below is 10 minutes long. It's worth watching. Neil DeGrasse Tyson talks about the intellectual collapse of the Arab world after those countries turned into Islamic theocracies and changed the focus of their societies from scientific exploration to religious revelation.
I thought the Islamic Golden Age was in the 8th century when they had their Islamic empire, which ended when the Mongols conquered Baghdad?

Civilizations, cultures or countries may have an official religion and still advance scientifically. That's not where their science comes from. Newton was a religious man who wrote quite a bit on religion. Copernicus was a priest although some claim he just took minor orders. There's plenty of myth about the suppression of science by the Catholic Church out there too. Particularly on Galileo.

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If the people who keep pushing Intelligent Design were in charge, that's exactly what could happen to the United States. It's happened before on this planet. What makes you think it couldn't happen here? It wouldn't require that we change into a religious theocracy that brutalizes its women in the manner that the Islamic countries do. All that would have to happen is that this country change enough to lose its competitive advantage economically to countries like China, Germany, and Japan.
Seriously lose our economic advantage because of this? America became an economic juggernaut when it was even more religious and less secular than it is today.

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Handicapping our students by filling their brains with religious myths and telling them IN ****ING SCIENCE CLASS that creationism and evolution are equally valid theories will make them less able to compete with students around the world who don't have to be confused by this nonsense.
Sounds to me like, you would like to be just as authoritarian.
There are religious people who accept evolution as part God's creation and laws.

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One thing I can guarantee you: Killer Clown will refuse to watch this video. He thinks he already has all of the answers because the Bible tells him everything he needs to know. People like him are dangerous to our way of life because they would dearly love to turn our nation into a Christian theocracy in which the story of Adam and Eve is taught as scientific fact and the theory of evolution is banned.
I really doubt it, since Killer Clown also believes in limited government.
Therein, lies your protection.

Again, you sound just as much like the authoritarian you claim KC to be. Only a statist fears someone who believes in Intelligent Design and who teaches it to their children or wants that to be presented as another theory.

Your theory on how it would destroy the country economically is nonsense and paranoia

Our way of life? We're becoming balkanized by the stress of multiculturalism and economically by crushing statism.
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Old 12-15-2013, 09:52 AM   #123
mlyonsd mlyonsd is offline
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Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
Oh really?

The video below is 10 minutes long. It's worth watching. Neil DeGrasse Tyson talks about the intellectual collapse of the Arab world after those countries turned into Islamic theocracies and changed the focus of their societies from scientific exploration to religious revelation.

If the people who keep pushing Intelligent Design were in charge, that's exactly what could happen to the United States. It's happened before on this planet. What makes you think it couldn't happen here? It wouldn't require that we change into a religious theocracy that brutalizes its women in the manner that the Islamic countries do. All that would have to happen is that this country change enough to lose its competitive advantage economically to countries like China, Germany, and Japan. Handicapping our students by filling their brains with religious myths and telling them IN ****ING SCIENCE CLASS that creationism and evolution are equally valid theories will make them less able to compete with students around the world who don't have to be confused by this nonsense.

One thing I can guarantee you: Killer Clown will refuse to watch this video. He thinks he already has all of the answers because the Bible tells him everything he needs to know. People like him are dangerous to our way of life because they would dearly love to turn our nation into a Christian theocracy in which the story of Adam and Eve is taught as scientific fact and the theory of evolution is banned.
All I'm saying is I think we're past the point of no return in this country in that science will never take its direction from religious beliefs.
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Old 12-15-2013, 10:12 AM   #124
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i'm going to have to go back to using smillies again...

nobody gets my sarcasm/offbeat humor any more...
We only love you for your smilies.
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High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 12-15-2013, 11:14 AM   #125
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I thought the Islamic Golden Age was in the 8th century when they had their Islamic empire, which ended when the Mongols conquered Baghdad?
They destroyed Baghdad and the all the irrigation work in the region. The Middle East didn't use to be a desert. It used to be very green and one of the breadbaskets of the world. Hundreds of centuries of farming and then the destruction of what brought new nutrients into the soil plus a decline in population so that those irrigation canals couldn't be rebuilt turned it into a desert.

The real problem was a couple things: Climate, trade position, war, and philosophy.

The middle east doesn't have a climate for pre-industrial mechanization that Northwest Europe did. Its position meant that overland routes or easy sea routes to trade centers like India, Thailand, and Indonesia were easy, the Europeans had to figure out how to sail around Africa, there were many wars fought with the Mongols, the Turks, the Moors, and the Greeks, and between themselves.

Finally the philosophy of Islam says that the Koran is gods word directly and while Greek and Roman philosophy are interesting they have nothing to do with Gods word. Christianity was different. When the New Testament was put together it was done by Greeks who inserted Greek philosophy into the Bible. They tried to mesh Jewish mysticism with Plato, Socrates, and others. Also, the Bible wasn't seen as gods word from on high but the testimony of those who witnessed Christ so many interpretations of the Bible could be valid and debated and discussed. In fact many of the synods were about what was the valid interpretation of the Bible. It was what led to the eventual split between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox church and every split since like the Coptic churches and Protestant.

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Civilizations, cultures or countries may have an official religion and still advance scientifically. That's not where their science comes from. Newton was a religious man who wrote quite a bit on religion. Copernicus was a priest although some claim he just took minor orders. There's plenty of myth about the suppression of science by the Catholic Church out there too. Particularly on Galileo.
There is a difference between a theocracy and having a state religion. In Europe the political authority and the religious authority were not intertwined and often competing. Also, with just having a state religion a political leader can be as lenient as they wish in actually enforcing that. Cromwell made Judaism legal in England under his reign for instance. Whereas in the Islamic world they often went hand in hand because there was no formal church with its own leadership structure.

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Seriously lose our economic advantage because of this? America became an economic juggernaut when it was even more religious and less secular than it is today.
The economics doesn't have anything to do with religion. It was that the government allowed people to create and build businesses. At the time Europe was much less free economically then it is today where as America was pretty much the wild west of commerce. Heck, even today in America you can own the mineral rights to your property. In most of the world that is not the case, you only own the surface rights.
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Old 12-15-2013, 11:15 AM   #126
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The hole in evolution theory is that they've never ever discovered a case of MacroEvolution, they've only found MicroEvolution. Darwinist are desperate now. Last week a Colorado professor claimed that Homosapiens were created when a monkey and a pig had sex.
The problem is Homosapiens are arrogant and think that they are smarter than they are and the reality is that very little is known and science is in its infancy and being held back by stupid people.
The global warming now climate change bs is the best example. A lot of scientists

say whatever you want for $. Enviro wackoism is loaded with $.
Look at how clueless mental health professionals are about the human brain. Most are just doing temporary labotomies with drugs. Treating, not curing.
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Old 12-15-2013, 11:19 AM   #127
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the reality is that very little is known and science is in its infancy and being held back by stupid people.
Agreed. See stem cell research.
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Old 12-15-2013, 11:20 AM   #128
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The hole in evolution theory is that they've never ever discovered a case of MacroEvolution, they've only found MicroEvolution. Darwinist are desperate now.
That is true. There is an actual study going on right now on the island of Surtsey off the coast of Iceland to see if new species evolve on a newly created landmass. Of course, this study will take hundreds of years.
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Old 12-15-2013, 11:22 AM   #129
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Agreed. See stem cell research.
Most of the breakthroughs in stem cell research have actually come from adult stem cells instead of fetal ones.


For instance, when they regrow trachea's for people they use bone marrow stem cells.
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Old 12-15-2013, 11:31 AM   #130
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Most of the breakthroughs in stem cell research have actually come from adult stem cells instead of fetal ones.


[/url]
Why do you think that is?
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Old 12-15-2013, 11:35 AM   #131
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Why do you think that is?
Simply, there is a much larger supply. It also makes sense from a medical standpoint when it comes to organ rejection. If you are making organs from peoples own stem cells which you can get from bone marrow, then there is much less or no need for immuno suppressors.

Where as unless they are you own fetal stem cells then there is a much greater chance that you will need immuno suppressors.

Its just like the question of why platinum is not used for industrial purposes like gold and silver are. The answer is that there simply not enough of it for it be viable in industrial use.
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Old 12-15-2013, 11:55 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I thought the Islamic Golden Age was in the 8th century when they had their Islamic empire, which ended when the Mongols conquered Baghdad?

Civilizations, cultures or countries may have an official religion and still advance scientifically. That's not where their science comes from. Newton was a religious man who wrote quite a bit on religion. Copernicus was a priest although some claim he just took minor orders. There's plenty of myth about the suppression of science by the Catholic Church out there too. Particularly on Galileo.
Really? I suspect Galileo would disagree, considering that the Catholic Church put him on trial, convicted him of heresy, and sentenced him to indefinite imprisonment (later commuted to house arrest for the rest of his life).

His crime? Stating that the earth revolves around the sun. That was heresy to the Catholic Church since the church taught at the time that the earth was the physical center of the universe.

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Papal Condemnation (Sentence) of Galileo

(June 22, 1633)

Whereas you, Galileo, son of the late Vaincenzo Galilei, Florentine, aged seventy years, were in the year 1615 denounced to this Holy Office for holding as true the false doctrine taught by some that the Sun is the center of the world and immovable and that the Earth moves, and also with a diurnal motion; for having disciples to whom you taught the same doctrine; for holding correspondence with certain mathematicians of Germany concerning the same; for having printed certain letters, entitled "On the Sunspots," wherein you developed the same doctrine as true; and for replying to the objections from the Holy Scriptures, which from time to time were urged against it, by glossing the said Scriptures according to your own meaning: and whereas there was thereupon produced the copy of a document in the form of a letter, purporting to be written by you to one formerly your disciple, and in this divers propositions are set forth, following the position of Copernicus, which are contrary to the true sense and authority of Holy Scripture:
This Holy Tribunal being therefore of intention to proceed against the disorder and mischief thence resulting, which went on increasing to the prejudice of the Holy Faith, by command of His Holiness and of the Most Eminent Lords Cardinals of this supreme and universal Inquisition, the two propositions of the stability of the Sun and the motion of the Earth were by the theological Qualifiers qualified as follows:

The proposition that the Sun is the center of the world and does not move from its place is absurd and false philosophically and formally heretical, because it is expressly contrary to Holy Scripture.

The proposition that the Earth is not the center of the world and immovable but that it moves, and also with a diurnal motion, is equally absurd and false philosophically and theologically considered at least erroneous in faith.

But whereas it was desired at that time to deal leniently with you, it was decreed at the Holy Congregation held before His Holiness on the twenty-fifth of February, 1616, that his Eminence the Lord Cardinal Bellarmine should order you to abandon altogether the said false doctrine and, in the event of your refusal, that an injunction should be imposed upon you by the Commissary of the Holy Office to give up the said doctrine and not to teach it to others, not to defend it, nor even to discuss it; and your failing your acquiescence in this injunction, that you should be imprisoned. In execution of this decree, on the following day at the palace of and in the presence of the Cardinal Bellarmine, after being gently admonished by the said Lord Cardinal, the command was enjoined upon you by the Father Commissary of the Holy Office of that time, before a notary and witnesses, that you were altogether to abandon the said false opinion and not in the future to hold or defend or teach it in any way whatsoever, neither verbally nor in writing; and upon your promising to obey, you were dismissed.

And in order that a doctrine so pernicious might be wholly rooted out and not insinuate itself further to the grave prejudice of Catholic truth, a decree was issued by the Holy Congregation of the Index prohibiting the books which treat of this doctrine and declaring the doctrine itself to be false and wholly contrary to the sacred and divine Scripture.

And whereas a book appeared here recently, printed last year at Florence, the title of which shows that you were the author, this title being: “Dialogue of Galileo Galilei on the Great World System:”; and whereas the Holy Congregation was afterward informed that through the publication of said book the false opinion of the motion of the Earth and the stability of the Sun was daily gaining round, the said book was taken into careful consideration, and in it there was discovered a patent violation of the aforesaid injunction that had been imposed upon you, for in this book you have defended the said opinion previously condemned and to your face declared to be so, although in the said book you strive by various devices to produce the impression that you leave it undecided, and in express terms as probably: which, however, is a most grievous error, as an opinion can in no wise be probable which has been declared and defined to be contrary to divine Scripture.

Therefore by our order you were cited before this Holy office, where, being examined upon our oath, you acknowledged the book to be written and published by you. You confessed that you began to write the said book about ten or twelve years ago, after the command had been imposed upon you as above; that you requested license to print it without, however, intimating to those who granted you this license that you had been commanded not to hold, defend, or teach the doctrine in question in any way whatever.

You likewise confessed that the writing of the said book is in many places drawn up in such a form that the reader might fancy that the arguments brought forward on the false side are calculated by their cogency to compel conviction rather than to be easy of refutation, excusing yourself for having fallen into an error, as you alleged, so foreign to your intention, by the fact that you had written in dialogue and by the natural complacency that every man feels in regard to his own subtleties and in showing himself more clever than the generality of men in devising, even on behalf of false propositions, ingenious and plausible arguments.

And a suitable term having been assigned to you to prepare your defense, you produced a certificate in the handwriting of his Eminence the Lord Cardinal Bellarmine, procured by you, as you asserted, in order to defend yourself against the calumnies of your enemies, who charged that you had abjured and had been punished by the Holy Office, in which certificate it is declared that you had not abjured and had not been punished but only that the declaration made by His Holiness and published by the Holy Congregation of the Index has been announced to you, wherein it is declared that the doctrine of the motion of the Earth and the stability of the Sun is contrary to the Holy Scriptures and therefore cannot be defended or held. And, as in this certificate there is no mention of the two articles of the injunction, namely, the order not “to teach” and “in any way,” you represented that we ought to believe that in the course of fourteen or sixteen years you had lost all memory of them and that this was why you said nothing of the injunction when you requested permission to print your book. And all this you urged not by way of excuse for your error but that it might be set down to a vainglorious ambitions rather than to malice. But his certificate produced by you in your defense has only aggravated your delinquency, since, although it is there stated that said opinion is contrary to Holy Scripture, you have nevertheless dared to discuss and defend it and to argue its probability; nor does the license artfully and cunningly extorted by you avail you anything, since you did not notify the command imposed upon you.

And whereas it appeared to us that you had not stated the full truth with regard to your intention, we thought it necessary to subject you to a rigorous examination at which (without prejudice, however, to the matters confessed by you and set forth as above with regard to your said intention) you answered like a good Catholic. Therefore, having seen and maturely considered the merits of this your cause, together with your confessions and excuses above-mentioned, and all that ought justly to be seen and considered, we have arrived at the underwritten final sentence against you:

Invoking, therefore, the most holy name of our Lord Jesus Christ and of His most glorious Mother, ever Virgin Mary, but this our final sentence, which sitting in judgment, with the counsel and advice of the Reverend Masters of sacred theology and Doctors of both Laws, our assessors, we deliver in these writings, in the cause and causes at present before us between the Magnificent Carlo Sinceri, Doctor of both Laws, Proctor Fiscal of this Holy Office, of the one part, and your Galileo Galilei, the defendant, here present, examined, tried, and confessed as shown above, of the other part—

We say, pronounce, sentence, and declare that you, the said Galileo, by reason of the matters adduced in trial, and by you confessed as above, have rendered yourself in the judgment of this Holy Office vehemently suspected of heresy, namely, of having believed and held the doctrine—which is false and contrary to the sacred and divine Scriptures—that the Sun is the center of the world and does not move from east to west and that the Earth moves and is not the center of the world; and that an opinion may be held and defended as probably after it has been declared and defined to be contrary to the Holy Scripture; and that consequently you have incurred all the censures and penalties imposed and promulgated in the sacred canons and other constitutions, general and particular, against such delinquents. From which we are content that you be absolved, provided that, first, with a sincere heart and unfeigned faith, you abjure, curse, and detest before use the aforesaid errors and heresies and every other error and heresy contrary to the Catholic and Apostolic Roman Church in the form to be prescribed by us for you.

And in order that this your grave and pernicious error and transgression may not remain altogether unpunished and that you may be more cautious in the future and an example to others that they may abstain from similar delinquencies, we ordain that the book of the “Dialogues of Galileo Galilei” be prohibited by public edict.

We condemn you to the formal prison of this Holy office during our pleasure, and by way of salutary penance we enjoin that for three years to come you repeat once a week at the seven penitential Psalms. Reserving to ourselves liberty to moderate, commute or take off, in whole or in part, the aforesaid penalties and penance.

And so we say, pronounce, sentence, declare, ordain, and reserve in this and in any other better way and form which we can and may rightfully employ.


[Signed:]


F. Cardinal of Ascoli
B. Cardinal Gessi
G. Cardinal Bentivoglio
F. Cardinal Verospi
Fr. D. Cardinal of Cremona
M. Cardinal Ginetti
Fr. Ant. s Cardinal of. S. Onofrio

[Three judges did not sign the sentence: Francesco Barberini, Caspar Borgia, and Laudivio Zacchia.]
Link ===> http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/project...demnation.html


Yeah, the Catholic Church did nothing to suppress science.

You know what's really sad? It's that under duress, Galileo recanted. He begged forgiveness from the Catholic Church for daring to say that the earth revolved around the sun, and declared it to be an error on his part.

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/project...cantation.html

Now tell me again: WHO was being authoritarian? It sure as hell wasn't the scientist.
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Old 12-15-2013, 12:53 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by Hobophobic View Post
The hole in evolution theory is that they've never ever discovered a case of MacroEvolution, they've only found MicroEvolution. Darwinist are desperate now. Last week a Colorado professor claimed that Homosapiens were created when a monkey and a pig had sex.
The problem is Homosapiens are arrogant and think that they are smarter than they are and the reality is that very little is known and science is in its infancy and being held back by stupid people.
The global warming now climate change bs is the best example. A lot of scientists

say whatever you want for $. Enviro wackoism is loaded with $.
Look at how clueless mental health professionals are about the human brain. Most are just doing temporary labotomies with drugs. Treating, not curing.
Wow. So much fail in a single post.

Creationists love to claim that we don't have examples of macroevolution. That claim was debunked ages ago, but that doesn't stop the creationists from repeating it over and over again. That's what happens when your beliefs are based upon religious faith and your mind is closed to all possibilities.

http://www.nature.com/scitable/knowl...world-96679683

I don't expect you to read the article I just linked to. Your post suggests that you don't read a lot.
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Old 12-15-2013, 02:24 PM   #134
Hobophobic Hobophobic is offline
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Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
Wow. So much fail in a single post.

Creationists love to claim that we don't have examples of macroevolution. That claim was debunked ages ago, but that doesn't stop the creationists from repeating it over and over again. That's what happens when your beliefs are based upon religious faith and your mind is closed to all possibilities.



I don't expect you to read the article I just linked to. Your post suggests that you don't read a lot.
I stand corrected, Braniac IS the missing link.
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Hobophobic < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Hobophobic < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Hobophobic < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Hobophobic < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Hobophobic < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Hobophobic < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Hobophobic < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Hobophobic < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.
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Old 12-15-2013, 02:27 PM   #135
Hobophobic Hobophobic is offline
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Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
Wow. So much fail in a single post.

Creationists love to claim that we don't have examples of macroevolution. That claim was debunked ages ago, but that doesn't stop the creationists from repeating it over and over again. That's what happens when your beliefs are based upon religious faith and your mind is closed to all possibilities.


I don't expect you to read the article I just linked to. Your post suggests that you don't read a lot.
Bet there's many things that you think are Macro, but are actually micro.
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Hobophobic < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Hobophobic < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Hobophobic < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Hobophobic < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Hobophobic < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Hobophobic < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Hobophobic < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Hobophobic < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.
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