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Old 10-09-2013, 09:55 AM  
Buehler445 Buehler445 is online now
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2013 Farm Bill

I heard a snippet on the radio yesterday about the farm bill. I've been on the combine solid for several days and it's a PIA to sift through a bunch of articles on my phone. Would anybody be willing to give a summation of where this nonsense is?

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Old 12-30-2013, 09:25 AM   #16
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It's the Huffington Post, so read into it what you will. Like I said, I don't know much about the Dairy portion of the farm bill.

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If the negotiators can't agree on a bill and Congress allows the dairy supports to expire, 1930s and 1940s-era "permanent" farm law would go into effect. Those laws would raise the price that the government currently pays to purchase dairy products, prompting many processors to sell to the government instead of commercial markets. That would decrease commercial supply and consequently raise prices for shoppers at grocery stores.

Prices wouldn't go up immediately, as the Agriculture Department would have to write the new rules based on the old laws and then put them into place. But Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack is warning that it may not take that long, saying USDA was prepared to implement the dairy law in "short order" if current law expires.
That seems like hokey math to me, unless the government is willing to buy unlimited supplies of the milk at the higher price, it sounds like it's getting quite overblown.
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Old 12-30-2013, 09:34 AM   #17
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Apparently, the government has to provide price supports for the Dairy industry and they would be required by the 1949 law to go in and purchase it.

That makes a little more sense. Hopefully this is formatted right.

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The leaders of the House and Senate agriculture committees are meeting Wednesday as they continue to try to work out the differences between their respective farm bills. If they fail, the country faces what's being called the "dairy cliff" — with milk prices potentially shooting up to about $7 a gallon sometime after the first of the year.

Here's why: The nation's farm policy would be legally required to revert back to what's called permanent law. In the case of dairy, that would be the 1949 farm bill.

And if House and Senate negotiators fail to reconcile their farm bills, U.S. Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack warns, "I'm going to be put in a position where I have to invoke and implement permanent law. And I will do my job because that's what I swore an oath to do."

The problem is that back in 1949, the dairy industry was much smaller and less efficient than the one that exists today, so it received bigger price supports from the federal government. And if U.S. policy reverted to the old law, the government would be forced to go into the marketplace and buy milk, butter and cheese at about double the going rate.

Vilsack says this would distort the market: "So you, as a [milk] producer, would have a choice of selling it to your normal purchaser at $18 or $19 a hundred weight or to USDA at $38 a hundred weight. What do you think producers will do?"

Of course the producers would sell to the government. And that, says Jim Dunn, a professor of agricultural economics at Penn State University, "would be terrible."

"Every refrigerated warehouse in the United States would be full of cheese and butter," he says, "and nonrefrigerated milk warehouses would be full of powdered milk."

And for the rest of us, he says, there would be sticker shock in the dairy aisle.

Vilsack says there would be supply issues, too, because the federal government would own the commodities, but there would be shortages in the grocery store. Which is how Americans would quickly end up facing milk at $7 a gallon —"If you can find it," notes Vilsack. "And that is why it is ludicrous for Congress not to get a farm bill done."

Milk would only be the first commodity affected. Without a farm bill, other commodity prices would spike as the year went on, affecting every family in America. Farm policy, often obscure for most consumers, would get personal fast. If this all sounds like illogical and terrible policy — well, that's the point, says Vilsack.

"It's a great lever to compel action," he says of the invocation of permanent law that hovers over every farm bill. "In most cases, it's the reason why we've had fairly routine extensions of the farm bill for the past 50 years."

Rep. Mike Conaway, a Republican from Texas and a member of the farm bill conference committee, agrees with Vilsack's assessment.

"It's applying pressure to me," he notes."That's the whole advantage of having permanent law that's as bad as it is: to try to get folks to create the new law that we need for the next five years."

Now, if all this talk about a dairy cliff sounds familiar, that's because it is: Last year, lawmakers narrowly avoided triggering those 1949 price supports by tucking a temporary extension of the 2008 farm bill into last-minute legislation that avoided the fiscal cliff.

This year, efforts to pass a new five-year farm bill have fallen into some of the same philosophical fights about the role of government that have gummed up the budget process on Capitol Hill — and just about everything else.
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Old 12-30-2013, 10:10 AM   #18
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Why does a Republican like HCF love Farm Bills? Why do any Republicans love Farm Bills?

Oh yeah, Farm Bills have usually been Bi-Partisan so this is supposed to mean they are a good thing for the country. Oops, I mean another special interest group wanting govt handouts.
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Old 12-30-2013, 10:15 AM   #19
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To my knowledge a Farm Bill was passed this past summer. Allegedly it was pared back, but the agriculture panel gained a new top Republican, Mississippi Sen. Thad Cochran. Thus, government subsidies were expanded for crop insurance plus rice and peanuts because rice and peanuts weren't in last year's bill. Pubs merely cut back nutrition/food aid for the poor.

Best I could find on this allegedly pared back farm bill:

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/0...ses-94031.html
Quote:
The Heritage Foundation, Club for Growth and Taxpayers for Common Sense, remained opposed to the level of commodity and crop insurance subsides in the bill.
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Old 12-30-2013, 10:17 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
To my knowledge a Farm Bill was passed this past summer. Allegedly it was pared back, but the agriculture panel gained a new top Republican, Mississippi Sen. Thad Cochran. Thus, government subsidies were expanded for crop insurance, rice and peanuts.

Best I could find on this allegedly pared back farm bill:

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/0...ses-94031.html
Nothing ever passed both the house and the senate. They've been miles apart from the beginning.
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Old 12-30-2013, 10:19 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Buehler445 View Post
Nothing ever passed both the house and the senate. They've been miles apart from the beginning.
So you're saying nothing passed both houses, even if a Senate version passed in the Senate and another a House version passed in the House?

Good news then if true. Time for free markets in agriculture instead of welfare. Helps debt and deficits.
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Old 12-30-2013, 10:25 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
So you're saying nothing passed both houses, even if a Senate version passed in the Senate and another a House version passed in the House?

Good news then if true. Time for free markets in agriculture instead of welfare. Helps debt and deficits.

You do understand that you are supporting the elimination of food stamps?
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Old 12-30-2013, 10:29 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Why does a Republican like HCF love Farm Bills? Why do any Republicans love Farm Bills?

Oh yeah, Farm Bills have usually been Bi-Partisan so this is supposed to mean they are a good thing for the country. Oops, I mean another special interest group wanting govt handouts.
I don't really care what's in the farm bill as long as they continue to subsidize federal crop insurance.

Without federal crop insurance, grain farmers can't afford to take the risk to put out the requisite fertilizer and weed control dollars necessary to achieve a good crop. If crop insurance subsidies go away, the industry will move to lower financial risk and yields will drop. In corn and beans, with the short carryout, will lead to higher prices. Whether or not it will affect the price of other grains is uncertain, but what it will unequivocally do is require us to import far more grains than we currently do. Those imports may be from countries that have far less EPA and FDA regulations than we do, so there will be plenty of additional material for you to bitch to us about Monsanto.

IMO, Federal Crop Insurance subsidy achieves an appropriate ROI on tax dollars. All the other stuff, I don't care that much about in the long term. Direct payments are a joke. Conservation, meh, I don't think it achieves all that much, but a lot of people like it. Disaster programs are a good thing for the industry.

I'm sure you know, but as of 2011, 17% of Farm Bill dollars were for farm programs. Additionally, of the 17% that went to farm programs, not all of that money is necessarily spent. It certainly won't be spent this year. The rest went to SNAP, WIC, School Lunches and the like.
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Old 12-30-2013, 10:31 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
So you're saying nothing passed both houses, even if a Senate version passed in the Senate and another a House version passed in the House?

Good news then if true. Time for free markets in agriculture instead of welfare. Helps debt and deficits.
I'm not sure if anything has been voted on. Surely it has been, but nothing has passed the congress as a whole.

It's not going to be free markets. They would have to repeal the 1949 Farm Bill to achieve that.
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Old 12-30-2013, 10:49 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Buehler445 View Post
I'm not sure if anything has been voted on. Surely it has been, but nothing has passed the congress as a whole.

It's not going to be free markets. They would have to repeal the 1949 Farm Bill to achieve that.

Hartzlers latest update says a lot will go on this week and next
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Old 12-30-2013, 10:50 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Hartzlers latest update says a lot will go on this week and next
I've done a poor job of paying attention to the whole mess.
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Old 12-30-2013, 11:38 AM   #27
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I've done a poor job of paying attention to the whole mess.
That is the problem with working hard for a living. It makes it difficult to keep track of what the shitbags in DC are up to~
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Old 12-30-2013, 01:51 PM   #28
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I've done a poor job of paying attention to the whole mess.
Well there has been little or nothing but windbags from each side producing wind. They will patchwork it through somehow and the same BS programs will still be there, the same things that need fixed will remain broke.
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Old 12-30-2013, 01:54 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Buehler445 View Post
I'm not sure if anything has been voted on. Surely it has been, but nothing has passed the congress as a whole.

It's not going to be free markets. They would have to repeal the 1949 Farm Bill to achieve that.
I say go for it! It's still welfare for agriculture.
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Old 12-30-2013, 01:55 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Buehler445 View Post
I don't really care what's in the farm bill as long as they continue to subsidize federal crop insurance.

Without federal crop insurance, grain farmers can't afford to take the risk to put out the requisite fertilizer and weed control dollars necessary to achieve a good crop. If crop insurance subsidies go away, the industry will move to lower financial risk and yields will drop. In corn and beans, with the short carryout, will lead to higher prices. Whether or not it will affect the price of other grains is uncertain, but what it will unequivocally do is require us to import far more grains than we currently do. Those imports may be from countries that have far less EPA and FDA regulations than we do, so there will be plenty of additional material for you to bitch to us about Monsanto.

IMO, Federal Crop Insurance subsidy achieves an appropriate ROI on tax dollars. All the other stuff, I don't care that much about in the long term. Direct payments are a joke. Conservation, meh, I don't think it achieves all that much, but a lot of people like it. Disaster programs are a good thing for the industry.

I'm sure you know, but as of 2011, 17% of Farm Bill dollars were for farm programs. Additionally, of the 17% that went to farm programs, not all of that money is necessarily spent. It certainly won't be spent this year. The rest went to SNAP, WIC, School Lunches and the like.
Well okay. Then again, this could be privatized.
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